Scissortail Park

[jn1780]

I was wondering, with the park being directly across the street, would they possibly put up a cool looking wall or some modern curtain? That sure would be an eyesore. ..
Attachment 9498

I don't know about cool looking, but they do have plans to put up some kind of wall.

[Bullbear]

paint each component of the substation a different color and make an interesting art piece out of it

[Pete]

I was wondering, with the park being directly across the street, would they possibly put up a cool looking wall or some modern curtain? That sure would be an eyesore. ..
Attachment 9498

Just last week they allocated $1 million to screen this from the park.

[Laramie]

One thing I wish that was incorporated on this park, is something JTF brought up awhile back, a stone or wrought iron fence around the park to define it and give it entrance points.

A park needs to be a place to welcome its patrons; wouldn't suggest too many barriers. The MBG had too many barriers when it initially opened. Now it's more welcoming...

Excited about the development proposed for the Central Park, let's hope they make it special.

[skanaly]

That's good to hear!!

[Just the facts]

OKC is building too much park land downtown. It would take 200,000 downtown residents to effectively use all the space. It took 50 years for the land around New York City Central Park to fill-in and the lots along Champs Elysees took nearly 100 years to build out. Who knows how long OKC will have to wait since we already have much smaller downtown parks whose frontage isn't built out yet after 60 years. This Central Park is no different than a giant Walmart parking lot designed to handle parking demands for the day after Thanksgiving and then sitting 90% empty they other 364 days. This park will be used to some high level of capacity for maybe 2 or 3 annual events and will be 99% unsued for the rest of the year - for decades to come. It just doesn't seem like a good use of land, money, or effort but that ship already sailed.

[Rover]

Way smaller than Central Park. Way different than Champs Élysées. But I agree with your premises that it will take 200 years for OKC to become Manhatten, NYC. Will never become Paris. And, I think the intent is not to restrict use to only downtown residents. Now, if we can Ignore trees, flowers, walking paths, lakes, and take out the asphalt, I can see the concern over the park being like a Walmart parking lot.

[musg8411]

OKC is building too much park land downtown. It would take 200,000 downtown residents to effectively use all the space. It took 50 years for the land around New York City Central Park to fill-in and the lots along Champs Elysees took nearly 100 years to build out. Who knows how long OKC will have to wait since we already have much smaller downtown parks whose frontage isn't built out yet after 60 years. This Central Park is no different than a giant Walmart parking lot designed to handle parking demands for the day after Thanksgiving and then sitting 90% empty they other 364 days. This park will be used to some high level of capacity for maybe 2 or 3 annual events and will be 99% unsued for the rest of the year - for decades to come. It just doesn't seem like a good use of land, money, or effort but that ship already sailed.

Maybe think of it as discouraging sprawl. There is still tons of vacant lots downtown, so by eliminating some with a park and getting rid of some of the blight, you create a better space for urban development. Plus we get some great green space for concerts and recreation that has been missing in the core.

[Just the facts]

Big surprise - Rover still doesn't grasp analogies, similes, or metaphors. Maybe 99 days wasn't long enough.

[Just the facts]

Maybe think of it as discouraging sprawl. There is still tons of vacant lots downtown, so by eliminating some with a park and getting rid of some of the blight, you create a better space for urban development. Plus we get some great green space for concerts and recreation that has been missing in the core.

I thought that way myself but the reality is that this park is going to exist in a residential vacuum for a long time and will eventually be inhabited by homeless people, vagrants, and other undesirables - which will actually make populating this area even more difficult. The city would be better off building nothing here and just keep the lot cleared and mowed until other parts of downtown are filled in.

[Jeepnokc]

OKC is building too much park land downtown. It would take 200,000 downtown residents to effectively use all the space. It took 50 years for the land around New York City Central Park to fill-in and the lots along Champs Elysees took nearly 100 years to build out. Who knows how long OKC will have to wait since we already have much smaller downtown parks whose frontage isn't built out yet after 60 years. This Central Park is no different than a giant Walmart parking lot designed to handle parking demands for the day after Thanksgiving and then sitting 90% empty they other 364 days. This park will be used to some high level of capacity for maybe 2 or 3 annual events and will be 99% unsued for the rest of the year - for decades to come. It just doesn't seem like a good use of land, money, or effort but that ship already sailed.

Welcome back JTF

[musg8411]

Can the city just trade the surrounding land with Blair Humphrey and build "Wheeler Park" around central park? But to your point, yes I agree to an extent. The city hasn't been too keen on doing something with the homeless in the area, so my faith in an active police force in the park to keep it clean isn't high. The myriad gardens have done pretty good, though it is a much smaller park closer to the core.

[warreng88]

I thought that way myself but the reality is that this park is going to exist in a residential vacuum for a long time and will eventually be inhabited by homeless people, vagrants, and other undesirables - which will actually make populating this area even more difficult. The city would be better off building nothing here and just keep the lot cleared and mowed until other parts of downtown are filled in.

That is what everyone said about the Myriad Gardens but look how that has turned around.

[catcherinthewry]

OKC is building too much park land downtown. It would take 200,000 downtown residents to effectively use all the space. It took 50 years for the land around New York City Central Park to fill-in and the lots along Champs Elysees took nearly 100 years to build out.

Your thinking reminds me of a Chinese proverb - "The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is today."

So many people on here complain about the city planners not having foresight, yet when they do, others complain. Yes, this park will take years to mature and the land around it may take even longer to fill in, but when it does the future residents of OKC will be grateful for our foresight. I'm proud that my generation is making the sacrifice so that my kids and grand kids will have a park that very few cities of any size will have anything comparable to it.

[Just the facts]

That is what everyone said about the Myriad Gardens but look how that has turned around.

For 40 years it was, and when MBG was rebuilt they moved to Stage Center, and now Stage Center is gone. So where does the homeless population move to now?

If nothing else, I am realist and I know this park is going to be built so really the only question is, how do you keep it clean and safe on all those days when no one will be using the park. The only answer to that is a constant and visible police presence because there won't be any residents to keep "eyes on the street". I seriously doubt the City and OKCPD are up to that task so what happens when they aren't? The answer is that the park becomes an urban campground. We already see this with the Skydance Bridge. There simply aren't people around to keep an eye on it.

As for people coming in from the suburbs to use the park, they don't even use their own local parks in any great number. How much parkland do people with a 1/3 acre backyard need?

[Anonymous.]

JTF you have a lot of catching up to do! (Or maybe you've been lurking). Welcome back.

Your theory with the park is my nightmare theory with the streetcar, great concept for future OKC - but participants in the early stages could possibly be extremely underwhelming.

I still feel like the park needs a unique sculpture or attraction that will make people want to visit the park on a daily basis.

[bchris02]

I think the park will develop and will ultimately be a great thing for downtown OKC. What I do not see is it being surrounded by high-rise residential like what is commonly envisioned. I think it is more likely to have development on the scale of the wheeler district around it. There is a lot of demand for family housing in the core and this will be a great catalyst for a true new urbanist community. Think Harbortown/Mud Island in Memphis.

[Just the facts]

JTF you have a lot of catching up to do! (Or maybe you've been lurking). Welcome back.

Thanks, I kept up with NEWSOK and checked in now and then. Reading and not posting for so long provided a whole new perspective. I actually think most of us would benefit from doing that.

Your theory with the park is my nightmare theory with the streetcar, great concept for future OKC - but participants in the early stages could possibly be extremely underwhelming.

I'm not worried about the streetcar. It will allow development of property that simply isn't possible without it. Think how much money it cost to provide on-site structured parking. People complain downtown housing is too expensive but half the cost is just so they can house their cars. Take that 'requirement' out of the equation and the cost to live downtown drops like a rock.

I still feel like the park needs a unique sculpture or attraction that will make people want to visit the park on a daily basis.

Simply placing a wrought iron/stone fence around park with decorative portal entrances is all it takes to entice people into a park - assuming there are people around to be enticed in. I was able to show Plutonic Panda around Jacksonville a few months ago and he now knows exactly what I am talking about. People naturally migrate to enclosed positive public space - you don't need festivals or gimmicks to get them there.

[Rover]

Big surprise - Rover still doesn't grasp analogies, similes, or metaphors. Maybe 99 days wasn't long enough.

As long as they make sense and actually relate, I and others do. Trying to discredit things with absurd metaphors isn't trying to make people understand. Analogies, similes and metaphors still need to be believable. Reboot with examples that more relate to what we are facing, in context, in recent time-frame, and with like objectives.

[AP]

OKC is building too much park land downtown. It would take 200,000 downtown residents to effectively use all the space. It took 50 years for the land around New York City Central Park to fill-in and the lots along Champs Elysees took nearly 100 years to build out. Who knows how long OKC will have to wait since we already have much smaller downtown parks whose frontage isn't built out yet after 60 years. This Central Park is no different than a giant Walmart parking lot designed to handle parking demands for the day after Thanksgiving and then sitting 90% empty they other 364 days. This park will be used to some high level of capacity for maybe 2 or 3 annual events and will be 99% unsued for the rest of the year - for decades to come. It just doesn't seem like a good use of land, money, or effort but that ship already sailed.

Welcome back, Kerry.

[Laramie]

OKC is building too much park land downtown. It would take 200,000 downtown residents to effectively use all the space. It took 50 years for the land around New York City Central Park to fill-in and the lots along Champs Elysees took nearly 100 years to build out. Who knows how long OKC will have to wait since we already have much smaller downtown parks whose frontage isn't built out yet after 60 years. This Central Park is no different than a giant Walmart parking lot designed to handle parking demands for the day after Thanksgiving and then sitting 90% empty they other 364 days. This park will be used to some high level of capacity for maybe 2 or 3 annual events and will be 99% unsued for the rest of the year - for decades to come. It just doesn't seem like a good use of land, money, or effort but that ship already sailed.

Good point!

Once you get the park built; now we may or may not have too much land. It is going to be difficult to downsize the Central Park without creating controversy. One great feature about the Core-to-Shore, you could probably squeeze in some development along the shore without impacting a large central park. If the park appears to be underutilized, who will notice?

We'll live with those results.

[Just the facts]

Who is going to want to live next to a park that isn't safe?

Here is an excerpt from a review of Jane Jacob's book Death and Life of Great American Cities.

ARCHITECTURE + URBANISM: Jane Jacobs: The Death and Life of Great American Cities (1961)

Jacobs describes parks as ‘volatile spaces’ and like sidewalks need ‘eyes’ and continuous usage but vast open spaces make this much more difficult to resolve. If a neighborhood park fails to attract people, it must become a specialized park, incorporating special attractions to draw people into the space.

We already see in this thread people saying the park needs a signature iconic structure and the developer created specialized sections for each conceivable use - picnics over there, children's playground over here, concerts in that area, etc.... I'll let you all decide if the developer and city already see this as a failed park.

[Urbanized]

I'm not as concerned as I once was about this. Midtown is unbelievably going to be close to out of raw land by the time the park is completed. While I think much of the development effort will shift west for a while, if OKC continues to build at the same clip it is possible - even likely - that infill will start to occur adjacent to the park sooner rather than later.

[Just the facts]

I'm not as concerned as I once was about this. Midtown is unbelievably going to be close to out of raw land by the time the park is completed. While I think much of the development effort will shift west for a while, if OKC continues to build at the same clip it is possible - even likely - that infill will start to occur adjacent to the park sooner rather than later.

I am not sure OKC has the population to build out the urban core even at moderate density. Just for fun lets say OKC could achieve a density of 10,000 per sq mile (yes I know that isn't very dense). The entire City population would fit in 61 sq miles. That means everyone in OKC could live within 4 miles of MBG. Think about that for a minute. OKC is going to run out of people long before it runs out of urban in-fill land to put them in (which also give us an idea of how much wasted space we have).

[hoya]

We don't have to fill out all of OKC. We just need to fill out the urban core area. If we're just talking about Auto Alley, Midtown, Film Row, Deep Deuce, Bricktown, and Core 2 Shore, I think that's plenty doable.

Oh, and welcome back, JTF.