Gulfport Energy

[Plutonic Panda]

I thought it was a snarky and unnecessary shot by Steve at Gulfport. I really like Steve and have defended him but it was uncalled for. One size does not fit all and having suburban developments isn't the end of the world especially if their employee base is in edmond. That's less traffic heading in and out of downtown everyday.

That's where I was coming from really. I like Steve, but that was just uncalled for and a cheap shot.

[AP]

So, why aren't you?

No one in my industry has an office downtown... Any more questions?

[AP]

You too?

I'm pretty sure he does live and work downtown....

[Rover]

No one in my industry has an office downtown... Any more questions?

Change industries to one that will support downtown

[Rover]

I'm pretty sure he does live and work downtown....

Working for less? That was the issue wasn't it?

[Urbanized]

Change industries to one that will support downtown

You're trolling, Rover.

[Rover]

No, just saying that it is easy to say you would take a job for less just to be walkable downtown. Truth is, working for less is usually not possible in dense urban areas due to the cost of living there. People have got to stop thinking that the urban living cost is just suburban cost minus the cost of their car. It either is naivety or not complete thinking. If we want to be something here we at least should be intellectually honest about what it is we want to aspire to.

[catch22]

No, just saying that it is easy to say you would take a job for less just to be walkable downtown. Truth is, working for less is usually not possible in dense urban areas due to the cost of living there. People have got to stop thinking that the urban living cost is just suburban cost minus the cost of their car. It either is naivety or not complete thinking. If we want to be something here we at least should be intellectually honest about what it is we want to aspire to.

Or, Trollver, someone might take a paycut if it meant they could live close to their job, their friends, and their after-hours activities.

I would certainly take a pay cut if it meant the things I wanted to do, had to do, and people I wanted to see were within walking distance. It's becoming more and more recognized that experiences mean more to this generation than the baby boomers value their possessions. So Andrew and Metro want to live closer to their jobs AND friends AND activities. Shame on them!!! Poke! Prod!

[bchris02]

No, just saying that it is easy to say you would take a job for less just to be walkable downtown. Truth is, working for less is usually not possible in dense urban areas due to the cost of living there. People have got to stop thinking that the urban living cost is just suburban cost minus the cost of their car. It either is naivety or not complete thinking. If we want to be something here we at least should be intellectually honest about what it is we want to aspire to.

This.

Living in an urban environment, with what you save on your car and gas you make up for in higher rent plus some. Also, its not like you can ditch your car in OKC either being that adequate essential services don't yet exist downtown yet the difference in rent cost here is equal to a car payment or more to live downtown vs the burbs. Add on top of that, most urban cities have a much higher cost of living than OKC does.

All of that said, to more and more people, living in an urban environment and the convenience and sense of community it brings is worth the higher cost.

[Plutonic Panda]

No, just saying that it is easy to say you would take a job for less just to be walkable downtown. Truth is, working for less is usually not possible in dense urban areas due to the cost of living there. People have got to stop thinking that the urban living cost is just suburban cost minus the cost of their car. It either is naivety or not complete thinking. If we want to be something here we at least should be intellectually honest about what it is we want to aspire to.

That's the biggest issue with me. Although, I do think that what Catch was saying is that some are willing to take a cut just to live closer to where they want to be. I personally would rather make more money, and having the cost of car, I would still make more money than I would living downtown without one.

[Rover]

Or, Trollver, someone might take a paycut if it meant they could live close to their job, their friends, and their after-hours activities.

I would certainly take a pay cut if it meant the things I wanted to do, had to do, and people I wanted to see were within walking distance. It's becoming more and more recognized that experiences mean more to this generation than the baby boomers value their possessions. So Andrew and Metro want to live closer to their jobs AND friends AND activities. Shame on them!!! Poke! Prod!

I'm sure it makes you feel good to get personal with the trolver thing you cleverly dreamed up to try to demean the person, not the argument. However, moving downtown is about lots of things, but rarely about saving money. You see, I agree with you that it is other things like job, lifestyle, etc. options. It was the stated idea that people can and will afford to take pay cuts to get downtown in developed urban areas that I disagree with. Easy to say, very hard to do. And, great about pulling the "we don't care about having things" card, but that isn't confined to where you live..suburb or downtown. If that is your commitment, then that can be done anywhere.

[bchris02]

Or, Trollver, someone might take a paycut if it meant they could live close to their job, their friends, and their after-hours activities.

Thinking about this, I guess it really depends on whether money or lifestyle is most important to a person. If a person wants to live downtown and be part of the downtown community and experience all that goes with that, I can definitely understand them being willing to take a pay cut to also work downtown. However when you look at the numbers it isn't so easy unless you are making way more than your expenses. Even in OKC you'll be paying significantly more to live downtown than you would to live in the burbs. In a city this small, I wouldn't really see the point in taking a pay cut being that you can commute from downtown to Memorial Rd in 20-30 minutes during rush hour, something unthinkable in most major metro areas. When it's not rush hour you can do it in 10-15 minutes. It's also not like you can shed your car here yet either. 10-15 years from now, if it starts becoming more popular and comfortable to live without a car downtown, I can definitely see a scenario. In OKC you can also live in the inner "burbs" around NW 50th or 63rd St and have easy access to both worlds.

As for moving to a developed urban city and taking a pay cut, that is impractical because the COL in major cities is usually much, much higher than in OKC.

[s00nr1]

For the vast majority, it is not financially sensible to live downtown *and* take a pay cut considering the added costs of such a lifestyle (mainly those associated with housing).

Taking myself as an example of someone who would love to live downtown....it is not something I can consider seriously at our current income.

[dankrutka]

Why is it so implausible to take a pay cut and live downtown? Say you and your spouse/partner were making $150,000 with no kids and took a paycut to $135,000 per year... You could easily afford to live in the downtown area. Am I missing something?

[Rover]

Why is it so implausible to take a pay cut and live downtown? Say you and your spouse/partner were making $150,000 with no kids and took a paycut to $135,000 per year... You could easily afford to live in the downtown area. Am I missing something?

Of course, there are always exceptions to everything. However, the vast majority won't.

[bchris02]

For the vast majority, it is not financially sensible to live downtown *and* take a pay cut considering the added costs of such a lifestyle (mainly those associated with housing).

Taking myself as an example of someone who would love to live downtown....it is not something I can consider seriously at our current income.

I am in the same situation. I would love to live downtown but doing so would be difficult on my current income. Now I could do it if I could ditch my car but doing so would be impractical in OKC.

If Andrew Perry is currently making far more than his expenses, I can see him voluntarily taking a pay cut. That isn't the case for most people.

[Urbanized]

FWIW, I have turned down higher-paying jobs because they would have taken me out of downtown. I haven't always lived downtown, but have worked there for most of the past two decades and really missed it when working for a while in radio advertising. I was incredibly happy to get back downtown, which against traditional sentiment offers LESS traffic congestion, LESS hassle, and MORE connections, both business and personal. It's just a matter of preference I think.

[GaryOKC6]

No, just saying that it is easy to say you would take a job for less just to be walkable downtown. Truth is, working for less is usually not possible in dense urban areas due to the cost of living there. People have got to stop thinking that the urban living cost is just suburban cost minus the cost of their car. It either is naivety or not complete thinking. If we want to be something here we at least should be intellectually honest about what it is we want to aspire to.

I work downtown and there is no way I would live there. Everyone has their own personal preference. I love my big yard and my dogs, backyard cook outs, turning up the surround sound as loud as I want it and most of all PRIVACY. I love my job but cant wait to get home every day. I drove in on the ice this morning and never thought twice about it.

[Urbanized]

I work downtown and there is no way I would live there. Everyone has their own personal preference. I love my big yard and my dogs, backyard cook outs, turning up the surround sound as loud as I want it and most of all PRIVACY. I love my job but cant wait to get home every day. I drove in on the ice this morning and never thought twice about it.

And yet, you can do all of that within a half mile of the CBD. For the record, lest anyone unfamiliar get the wrong impression.

[GaryOKC6]

And yet, you can do all of that within a half mile of the CBD. For the record, lest anyone unfamiliar get the wrong impression.

I actually live 8 minutes from Downtown. About 3.5 miles) Kind of have the best of both worlds.

[Urbanized]

I did the same for years, near 63rd and Villa. I loved it. Just happen to like living in/around downtown better. Again, just a personal choice. Couldn't envision any circumstances under which I would WORK in the 'burbs though. The conveniences, sense of community and opportunities for collaboration downtown and in the central city are just too great. When I did it 15 years ago I felt pretty disconnected the entire time, and that was before the downtown resurgence had really gained traction.

[bchris02]

FWIW, I have turned down higher-paying jobs because they would have taken me out of downtown. I haven't always lived downtown, but have worked there for most of the past two decades and really missed it when working for a while in radio advertising. I was incredibly happy to get back downtown, which against traditional sentiment offers LESS traffic congestion, LESS hassle, and MORE connections, both business and personal. It's just a matter of preference I think.

I really think that will change in the near future. As the population of downtown OKC explodes, traffic will really begin to increase. However, you are completely right on more connections both business and personal. There is a sense of community and energy you get downtown that you don't get in the burbs especially here. Humans need and crave community. Suburbs are inherently built around privacy and isolating yourself (and your family). I have to say as a single man well past the prime marriage age in Oklahoma, suburban OKC is tremendously isolating. I have been spending a lot more time downtown recently and as a result I have been enjoying it here more. Suburbs are great though for families and if I was married with 2.5 kids I would probably have no desire to leave the burbs.

[GaryOKC6]

I did the same for years, near 63rd and Villa. I loved it. Just happen to like living in/around downtown better. Again, just a personal choice. Couldn't envision any circumstances under which I would WORK in the 'burbs though. The conveniences, sense of community and opportunities for collaboration downtown and in the central city are just too great. When I did it 15 years ago I felt pretty disconnected the entire time, and that was before the downtown resurgence had really gained traction.

I definitely don't envy those who have to sit in traffic every morning on the highways. I would not live that far away simply because the drive would drive me nuts. I have however talked to someone who relocated here from California to work for Boeing. He lives in North Edmond and drives to Tinker. He says the commute does not bother him at all and he in fact enjoys it. I guess it is all in what you are used to. I love living in the crown heights area because it is close enough to enjoy the best of both worlds.

[Urbanized]

I really think that will change in the near future. As the population of downtown OKC explodes, traffic will really begin to increase. However, you are completely right on more connections both business and personal. There is a sense of community and energy you get downtown that you don't get in the burbs especially here. Humans need and crave community. Suburbs are inherently built around privacy and isolating yourself (and your family). I have to say as a single man, suburban OKC is tremendously isolating. It's great though for families and if I was married with 2.5 kids I would probably choose the burbs.

Two points on that:

• I'm completely unconcerned about future congestion downtown. First of all, many if not most of those people moving downtown won't necessarily be adding congestion proportionate to the population increase thanks to working/playing close-by. Meaning they will often (usually?) be using means other than automobiles to get to where they are going. In exurban neighborhoods there is nearly a 1-1 congestion increase thanks to all of the required trips. Besides, if I'm one of the people walking/cycling, etc., why do I care if traffic is backed up?
  
  
• Not all suburbs are isolating; only most (all?) of the ones in OKC. BAD suburbs are isolating. There are good suburbs, and even opportunities for thoughtfully retrofitting existing ones. We need to work on making our existing OKC neighborhoods better, and incentivize better new development. The proposed Wheeler District is essentially a suburban development. I'm optimistic that it will come to fruition and demonstrate to the local development community that a suburban lifestyle can still include village-like connectivity and community.

[Richard at Remax]

Why is it so implausible to take a pay cut and live downtown? Say you and your spouse/partner were making $150,000 with no kids and took a paycut to $135,000 per year... You could easily afford to live in the downtown area. Am I missing something?

You def can and not implausable at all. For me personally though downtown isn't the end all be all. I much prefer going to western, plaza, and midtown more recently due to bleu garten. In your scenario i would much rather keep the extra $15K a year and sacrifice driving 10-20 minutes to those places (I live at 150th and western). With Uber now it makes it even better.

a side note to that though is that it is almost assumed, for some reason on this board, that everyone works downtown. i would assume that the vast majority don't. I work in edmond so there is no reason for me to live down there. just saying if you don't work down there why pay the premium right now when things are still in infancy stages?