OKC livable without a car by 2020?

[Rover]

If I lived in that area I'd want to be car free, that stretch of May is one of the worst congested roads in all of the city.

I can agree with that.

I might point out that the most traffic congested city area I spend time in is Manhattan, NYC.

[Filthy]

This quote is arguably getting a lot of attention.

Understandably so.

Can you please define "Pussification"?

Figuratively or Literally? I'm glad you asked, as it shows me that you are intelligent enough to know that I probably think it is something different than others here do. In a literal sense, it's a somewhat difficult word to define, seeing that I would classify it as more of a "slang" term. But there are a lot of posters here, who seem to always take everything posted here at face value, and proceed to get twisted.

Figuratively speaking, I was merely sharing my opinion/and or point of view on how, I find it sad that some of the things that use to be important in this Country.......are important no more. I see a disgustingly growing trend in the mindset of people that continue to help our society grow complacent. It's silly to try and use this conversation about driving cars vs. walkability as an engine for this conversation, but I honestly feel like it is all related. What happened to the days, when people wanted to live the "American Dream" family of 4, in a nice house, with a white picket fence, 2 Cadillacs in the driveway, with a dog in the front yard going woof woof. Somehow in this new and crazy time we live in......its seems to be somewhat frowned upon. What happened to people wanting to get ahead, and always craving more? A successful society is created by competition amongst one another. I never thought I would see a time in my life where people almost want to brag about living a simpler life, or having less, or doing without. I'm having a hard time grasping that concept. And it is dangerous to our society, by indirectly creating complacency.

So, in regards to this issue at hand, maybe my thoughts are old fashioned. Since, I'm damn near 35 years old...I'm sure my ideals are somewhat antiquated within this group. But the overall culture of having cars, and owning cars is a fundamental necessary in my eyes. And it has NOTHING to do, with getting from point "A", to point "anywhere." Its not because I need them to get around, and not because I cant walk or ride a bike.....but because its part of our culture. Not everyone is going to see eye to eye on this. But the whole "walkability" agenda that is discussed ad nauseam on this site, is debatable. Some people desire it.....others think it is a step backwards in regards to progression, and others just don't care.

[bchris02]

Recent studies show that millennials value experiences more than material possessions. That is likely why we are seeing this shift towards downsizing and urban living. Much of this generation was raised in the big McMansions of suburbia so they know that lifestyle isn't key to happiness. Of course many are going on to pursue the 2.5 kids and white picket fence. It's by no means going away. Still others want something different, especially in their years between school and child-rearing. Even younger people who opt for the suburban lifestyle still enjoy urban environments for socializing. It's not uncommon for each generation of young people who have conflicting values with the previous generation. Walkability is discussed on OKCTalk so much because it is one of the keys to retaining the next generation in OKC rather than lose them all to Dallas, Austin, Denver, etc.

[Rover]

We don't lose out to Dallas, Denver, Austin, etc. because of walkability. It's because of jobs and opportunities. It's about availability of capital. It's about lots of things. I would guess that when relocating the category of walkability falls way behind other things. Not saying walkability isn't a noble goal, but let's not empower it beyond what it is.

By the way, the priorities of today's millenials is almost certain to change. Trust me. I went through the whole 60's 70's anti establishment group that makes today's millenials look like hippy-lite. Guess who is living in the suburbs, buying the cars, choosing the schools and colleges, working for $150,000 a year doing establishment like jobs. LOL if you don't think they won't evolve. But the good news is that there will be a generation, and then another, and then another, that all devalues traditional things until they become traditional people with jobs, kids, desires of security, freedom, mobility, etc., etc., etc. Every generation thinks they re-write the course of history....but it turns out it is a slow evolution, not a revolution. Don't mistake period of life desires for all of life desires.

Now, with that useless diatribe, OKC has been woeful on providing that rung on the ladder...the important rung, the first rung. How to get the new generation to come enter into OKC life and to stay here productively their whole life. We want the best to be here and we need to provide "period of life" amenities that attract them. That's why we older ones want to support this evolving urban metro development and let it catch up to what is already here, not to replace everything that is here. Walkability is important to that. I just don't happen to think it has to be spoon fed in nice poster perfect planned new urban developments. We have great walkable, livable, mixed use areas in town now. But it doesn't look like the current textbook images. Heaven forbid, you might have to actually walk around to see them and open your eyes to not trip over them.

[adaniel]

Figuratively speaking, I was merely sharing my opinion/and or point of view on how, I find it sad that some of the things that use to be important in this Country.......are important no more. I see a disgustingly growing trend in the mindset of people that continue to help our society grow complacent. It's silly to try and use this conversation about driving cars vs. walkability as an engine for this conversation, but I honestly feel like it is all related. What happened to the days, when people wanted to live the "American Dream" family of 4, in a nice house, with a white picket fence, 2 Cadillacs in the driveway, with a dog in the front yard going woof woof. Somehow in this new and crazy time we live in......its seems to be somewhat frowned upon. What happened to people wanting to get ahead, and always craving more? A successful society is created by competition amongst one another. I never thought I would see a time in my life where people almost want to brag about living a simpler life, or having less, or doing without. I'm having a hard time grasping that concept. And it is dangerous to our society, by indirectly creating complacency.

A traditional life in the suburbs is not as nearly frowned upon as you are making it out to be, even on this forum. However, you are taking a snapshot of what you think is the measure of success and applying it to everyone. I think that is the issue here.

I'll tell you what happened with "those days" you are quoting. Wages started stagnanting about 3 decades ago, and Mom and Dad had to get an High rate ARM for that big-ass McMansion in the suburbs with the picket fence. And the Cadillacs in the driveway aren't so nice when gas is/was at $4/gallon. I know at least 2 people who rent nice but nondescript places and do not espouse for the lifestyle you just laid out, but they have 7 figures to their name. Does this make them any less successful?

I also take slight umbarge at the suggestion that not wanting or owning a car is somehow a sign of complacency. I think it is far more complacent to go sit in a car then to actually walk somewhere using your own legs. And I say this as someone who is a bit of a car enthusiast myself but wants no part in being wholly dependent on a vehicle.

The America I know is all about choice. You choose the white picket fence lifestyle, some want something a bit different. Isn't that what freedom is about?

[bradh]

Filthy I lean more towards your side on this argument, but that's a really shallow argument about people wanting to get ahead and having material to show for it. It's pretty ignorant to assume only those with possessions are the ones with the wealth and success. Honestly, even though I do live in suburbia and will have a 3 car garage, etc, I wouldn't mind one bit living in a 1500 sq ft townhome with out half the crap I have, but saving some of the money to go enjoy some of things I do love more than working on cars, like skiing, fishing, etc.

[Filthy]

Filthy I lean more towards your side on this argument, but that's a really shallow argument about people wanting to get ahead and having material to show for it. It's pretty ignorant to assume only those with possessions are the ones with the wealth and success. Honestly, even though I do live in suburbia and will have a 3 car garage, etc, I wouldn't mind one bit living in a 1500 sq ft townhome with out half the crap I have, but saving some of the money to go enjoy some of things I do love more than working on cars, like skiing, fishing, etc.

I don't disagree, but it is somewhat disheartening, that what you just posted, is all that anyone is getting out of my post. Because it couldn't be further from the truth.

[AP]

Filthy I lean more towards your side on this argument, but that's a really shallow argument about people wanting to get ahead and having material to show for it. It's pretty ignorant to assume only those with possessions are the ones with the wealth and success. Honestly, even though I do live in suburbia and will have a 3 car garage, etc, I wouldn't mind one bit living in a 1500 sq ft townhome with out half the crap I have, but saving some of the money to go enjoy some of things I do love more than working on cars, like skiing, fishing, etc.

You're our resident in-betweener.

[bradh]

I don't disagree, but it is somewhat disheartening, that what you just posted, is all that anyone is getting out of my post. Because it couldn't be further from the truth.

Then what is it then? You specifically line out that craving more, living the American dream, etc is a sign of wanting to get ahead. I actually got what you meant by your "pussification" statement originally with the cars. That made some sense because I felt you were talking about people taking care of their own stuff, hunting & killing their own food occasionally, mowing their own grass, fixing their own problems. However, when you went off saying that because people want to minimize the amount of crap they have meaning that lack some sort of drive, you lost me.

[Plutonic Panda]

It absolutely enrages me that you consider that "Pussification." As if that is even an acceptable term to apply to anything.

It's completely acceptable

[bradh]

You're our resident in-betweener.

Someone has to do it

[AP]

It's completely acceptable

No it isn't.

[catch22]

The term pussification is a poor choice of words if you are trying to describe something that is weak and fragile.

Those things can take a pounding and give birth to a watermelon sized human being. I'd say they are pretty tough.

Unlike male parts where if you sit wrong you lose all of the air inside of your lungs for a few minutes and can cause your eyes to water profusely as your face turns a bright red.

[Plutonic Panda]

No it isn't.

Why not? Is it not politically correct? Does that offend biotorich or whatever his name is and your views on sexism?

I don't care either way, to be honest with you. We I live in a world I as a human will make crude racist and sexist jokes towards another and in friends with a lot of different colored and gendered people, belive it or not. So I think, the joke was acceptable.

[bradh]

The term pussification is a poor choice of words if you are trying to describe something that is weak and fragile.

Those things can take a pounding and give birth to a watermelon sized human being. I'd say they are pretty tough.

Unlike male parts where if you sit wrong you lose all of the air inside of your lungs for a few minutes and can cause your eyes to water profusely as your face turns a bright red.

post of the day lol

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm not worried that you think we're being pussies. My kids walk miles without an ounce of worry, are more capable of meeting people on the street and holding a normal conversation, and are far, far more independent than any of their peers.

I'm very glad we chose to shed the cars and live life differently. It's just sad that you think that we are weaker. It's actually an ironic statement from the way I see it.

I don't think he meant you were a puss(y) for not having a car.

[adaniel]

The term pussification is a poor choice of words if you are trying to describe something that is weak and fragile.

Those things can take a pounding and give birth to a watermelon sized human being. I'd say they are pretty tough.

Wait, I thought we were talking about cats? What are YOU talking about? And I might need some pictures as examples, I'm a visual learner, you know.

[BDP]

Understandably so.



Figuratively or Literally? I'm glad you asked, as it shows me that you are intelligent enough to know that I probably think it is something different than others here do. In a literal sense, it's a somewhat difficult word to define, seeing that I would classify it as more of a "slang" term. But there are a lot of posters here, who seem to always take everything posted here at face value, and proceed to get twisted.

Figuratively speaking, I was merely sharing my opinion/and or point of view on how, I find it sad that some of the things that use to be important in this Country.......are important no more. I see a disgustingly growing trend in the mindset of people that continue to help our society grow complacent. It's silly to try and use this conversation about driving cars vs. walkability as an engine for this conversation, but I honestly feel like it is all related. What happened to the days, when people wanted to live the "American Dream" family of 4, in a nice house, with a white picket fence, 2 Cadillacs in the driveway, with a dog in the front yard going woof woof. Somehow in this new and crazy time we live in......its seems to be somewhat frowned upon. What happened to people wanting to get ahead, and always craving more? A successful society is created by competition amongst one another. I never thought I would see a time in my life where people almost want to brag about living a simpler life, or having less, or doing without. I'm having a hard time grasping that concept. And it is dangerous to our society, by indirectly creating complacency.

So, in regards to this issue at hand, maybe my thoughts are old fashioned. Since, I'm damn near 35 years old...I'm sure my ideals are somewhat antiquated within this group. But the overall culture of having cars, and owning cars is a fundamental necessary in my eyes. And it has NOTHING to do, with getting from point "A", to point "anywhere." Its not because I need them to get around, and not because I cant walk or ride a bike.....but because its part of our culture. Not everyone is going to see eye to eye on this. But the whole "walkability" agenda that is discussed ad nauseam on this site, is debatable. Some people desire it.....others think it is a step backwards in regards to progression, and others just don't care.

I can understand some people love cars and don't mind the expense associated with them, but I can not grasp the concept that our country has become less complacent because people want to walk. Are people who walk less motivated than the person who drives and parks their car three times in the same strip mall so they don't have to walk between stores? Seems like the opposite would be true.

[BDP]

It's not for people who want to live without. It's people who can't afford a car.

And for some people with money who can think of better ways to spend / invest it. Cars are money pits.

[adaniel]

Why not? Is it not politically correct? Does that offend biotorich or whatever his name is and your views on sexism?

I'm not a moderator but some friendly advice. I am not sure what you are implying here but I think you REALLY need to be careful about what you say about memebers on here before you find yourself on "vacation."

[catch22]

Wait, I thought we were talking about cats? What are YOU talking about? And I might need some pictures as examples, I'm a visual learner, you know.

Even cats have 9 lives and vicious clawing techniques...so there is really no meaning of the word which implies weakness.

[Richard at Remax]

I think the term was probably a poor choice (i will add it to my personal aresenal though). "Smugness" might be a better fit.

Ive been there, done that when it comes to urban living, ect but i got married, priorities shifted (have a child on the way), and i made the move out to the burbs in preparation for that. Funny thing is is that I am probably going out more for entertainment in the core than when i lived in Edgemere.

It just get tiring when others, esp people i dont know on a message board, criticize me and other for wanting other things than them. You live in the core and walk everywhere and don't have a car. Awesome. Good for you. Why do you care that i like my car and my pool and more house for my $$$? You shouldn't.

[Rover]

It is sad that we have to demean each other depending on what we choose to aspire to. So many on here say they want inclusion, choice, diversification, freedom...... but it appears they don't. Driving a car doesn't automatically mean you are smart or dumb, weak or strong, wise or unwise. I dare say some of the toughest and meanest thugs don't own or drive a car. But it also doesn't make them the smartest for it either. And I know plenty of wealth dumb people too...some in the suburbs, some in the city. So what? Everything on here turns into a pi$$ing contest it seems.

[Richard at Remax]

Also i will point out i know for a fact someone who has fancy cars or a big house doesn't mean they are successful. The "illusion" of wealth is rampant everywhere.

[Rover]

Also i will point out i know for a fact someone who has fancy cars or a big house doesn't mean they are successful. The "illusion" of wealth is rampant everywhere.

And the reality of poverty is everywhere too. So what's the point?