OKC livable without a car by 2020?

[bchris02]

In your opinion, how far is this city from being livable comfortably without a car? Of course its possible today but it isn't fun and it isn't ideal. To me, the litmus test is to not need to go to the burbs for any necessities and to have reliable public transportation by streetcar between the core districts. What amenities are still needed before it will meet the standard?

Essentially I think the following will be necessary and I think the year 2020 is a realistic time frame. Am I missing anything?

-Completed streetcar system
-Full service grocery store
-Drug store/pharmacy (CVS)
-Urban Target
-Expanded bus system with frequent routes as far north as NW 63rd St.

Thoughts? Of course, OKC doesn't have near enough people living downtown to support the above amenities in 2014, but do you think it will by 2020?

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't think an urban Target is needed for someone to be able to live car free. I actually think you could right now if you wanted to. TimeCar, Uber, buses, all make for being able to travel where you need to go and I think everything is there within the core, but there is much to be improved.

[bchris02]

I don't think an urban Target is needed for someone to be able to live car free. I actually think you could right now if you wanted to. TimeCar, Uber, buses, all make for being able to travel where you need to go and I think everything is there within the core, but there is much to be improved.

Of course you could today, but I am not sure I would say "comfortably" about the situation right now. Ideally, one should be able to live downtown without a car and yet not have to sacrifice quality of life vs living in the burbs.

[Plutonic Panda]

Of course you could today, but I am not sure I would say "comfortably" about the situation right now. Ideally, one should be able to live downtown without a car and yet not have to sacrifice quality of life vs living in the burbs.

Yeah, I would say a functioning mass transit system = more people moving downtown and ditching cars = more retail and services opening up downtown

[ljbab728]

Your thread title is a little misleading. You are only talking about downtown being livable without a car and giving examples about how that could be accomplished.

[hoya]

Your thread title is a little misleading. You are only talking about downtown being livable without a car and giving examples about how that could be accomplished.

Well, to be fair, Hefner Rd and Rockwell is probably never going to be livable without a car. Certainly not in any time frame we're interested in here. We've got to focus on what we can accomplish.

[ljbab728]

Well, to be fair, Hefner Rd and Rockwell is probably never going to be livable without a car. Certainly not in any time frame we're interested in here. We've got to focus on what we can accomplish.

I'm not arguing with that at all. I just think the thread title could have been a little more specific. It's no big deal though.

[bchris02]

I thought it was implied that I was primarily referring to the urban core. I doubt NW 178th and Rockwell will ever be livable without a car.

[Filthy]

I understand the want to have a cool district, or close nit "village like" city to be able to walk out your front door, and access any restaurant, bank, grocery store, market that you want within walking distance.....but, I still don't understand why someone desires to live without a car. What is wrong with this World?

[bchris02]

It's not that people would ditch their car entirely (though some might.) It's whether or not it would be doable. Personally I would never want to give up having a car, but would love to live in a walkable neighborhood in which I rarely had to use my car. I am sure plenty of people feel the same way.

[bradh]

but, I still don't understand why someone desires to live without a car. What is wrong with this World?

Now you've done it...incoming!

I'm with what bchris says, I think most would love to use their car less, but we take way too many road trips, plus it's required for my job.

[AP]

I understand the want to have a cool district, or close nit "village like" city to be able to walk out your front door, and access any restaurant, bank, grocery store, market that you want within walking distance.....but, I still don't understand why someone desires to live without a car. What is wrong with this World?

It's not for people who want to live without. It's people who can't afford a car.

[Filthy]

It's not that people would ditch their car entirely (though some might.) It's whether or not it would be doable. Personally I would never want to give up having a car, but would love to live in a walkable neighborhood in which I rarely had to use my car. I am sure plenty of people feel the same way.

Understood. I guess I just personally have a hard time relating to such people. I was raised in a family, where cars weren't just modes of transportation, to get from point A, to point B. To me.... Cars, are for the most part, extensions of ones personalities. Whether it is wanting to always have the latest/greatest new age models/technologies, or owning rare collector cars. I know we no longer live in the 1950s, where Lil' Jimmy's Dad would bring home a new shiny Buick, and the whole neighborhood would come outside to look. It is just sad to me to see the World around me, increasingly see a car, as nothing more than a mode of transportation.

Just recently, when my wife and I were looking to purchase a new home, there were several different deciding factors. Some were more important than others obviously. Design of house, Area of city, School district.....etc.. But for me personally, my priorities were "How many garages does it have, and does it have enough land...to build a shop....to store my cars in." So, yes. I understand that I'm probably on the extreme other end of the spectrum. But somewhere in the middle ground......I'm still flabbergasted at the ever growing movement, to not care about cars. It's something that I categorize into my "Pussification" of America file.

[Rover]

I thought it was implied that I was primarily referring to the urban core. I doubt NW 178th and Rockwell will ever be livable without a car.

Why does liveability have to be confined to downtown? There are any number of areas around town where you could live car free. The idea that urban living is only for the core is not even supported by new urbanists.

[AP]

Understood. I guess I just personally have a hard time relating to such people. I was raised in a family, where cars weren't just modes of transportation, to get from point A, to point B. To me.... Cars, are for the most part, extensions of ones personalities. Whether it is wanting to always have the latest/greatest new age models/technologies, or owning rare collector cars. I know we no longer live in the 1950s, where Lil' Jimmy's Dad would bring home a new shiny Buick, and the whole neighborhood would come outside to look. It is just sad to me to see the World around me, increasingly see a car, as nothing more than a mode of transportation.

Just recently, when my wife and I were looking to purchase a new home, there were several different deciding factors. Some were more important than others obviously. Design of house, Area of city, School district.....etc.. But for me personally, my priorities were "How many garages does it have, and does it have enough land...to build a shop....to store my cars in." So, yes. I understand that I'm probably on the extreme other end of the spectrum. But somewhere in the middle ground......I'm still flabbergasted at the ever growing movement, to not care about cars. It's something that I categorize into my "Pussification" of America file.

It absolutely enrages me that you consider that "Pussification." As if that is even an acceptable term to apply to anything.

[bchris02]

Why does liveability have to be confined to downtown? There are any number of areas around town where you could live car free. The idea that urban living is only for the core is not even supported by new urbanists.

Well within at least the next ten years, if anybody wants to be car free in Oklahoma or at least rely on their car less, its going to be downtown. While hopefully there may one day be new urbanist communities built in the outer burbs there really isn't anything on the horizon right now. If there is one place in a city where you should be able to live comfortably without a car its downtown. Even in big cities today, suburban areas can be just as auto-oriented as OKC is. There's nothing wrong with that. Options are good for everybody.

[Roger S]

......I'm still flabbergasted at the ever growing movement, to not care about cars. It's something that I categorize into my "Pussification" of America file.

As someone that just spent more on a new smoker than I did for my last automobile.... I have to say it's all about priorities.... to me a vehicle is a means to get from point A to point B. I don't really care who I impress getting there.

I do however take very good care of my vehicles because I depend on them to get me from point a to point B... I am the original owner of a 97 Dodge Ram 1500 and the most recent vehicle is an 04 Ford Escape.

And I'll tell you straight up... There is nothing "pussified" about my new smoker and I'll get more use out of it than I ever would a fancy car.

[bchris02]

I'm still flabbergasted at the ever growing movement, to not care about cars. It's something that I categorize into my "Pussification" of America file.

Everybody has their own interests, hobbies, and priorities and just because they aren't the same as yours doesn't make them "pussies." That's a very high school way of thinking.

[Filthy]

Everybody has their own interests, hobbies, and priorities and just because they aren't the same as yours doesn't make them "pussies." That's a very high school way of thinking.

It looks like you have misinterpreted what I wrote. As, I clearly did not call anyone, anything. So, please refrain from fabricating half truths to push an agenda, that clearly isn't mine.

[Rover]

Well within at least the next ten years, if anybody wants to be car free in Oklahoma or at least rely on their car less, its going to be downtown. While hopefully there may one day be new urbanist communities built in the outer burbs there really isn't anything on the horizon right now. If there is one place in a city where you should be able to live comfortably without a car its downtown. Even in big cities today, suburban areas can be just as auto-oriented as OKC is. There's nothing wrong with that. Options are good for everybody.

It isn't ten years from now, there are multiple areas NOW that you can live in car free. As it is with downtown, it depends on where you want to (or CAN) work, how you like to shop, what kind of entertainment, etc. There are these areas that are served by mass trans now that will take you downtown or to other parts of town. I could very easily be car free where I live right now. Does it have rail...NO. Does it have high rise communal living at the curb....NO. But it is walkable with sidewalks, grocery stores, high and low end shopping, lots of restaurants, some bars, etc. The area is very diverse and within 15 minutes walking are $5 million homes and $500 a month rent apartments. There are parks, bike paths, playgrounds and lakes within walking distance. We have virtually every race and a variety of nationalities within a mile radius. I am easily within walking distance of where I work, and quickly by bike. I can catch a bus relatively close to my house in case I want to. I could do the same in any number of areas of town.

It isn't always about what is available, but what people want to see and are willing to do. Most see only what they want to see.

[AP]

It isn't ten years from now, there are multiple areas NOW that you can live in car free. As it is with downtown, it depends on where you want to (or CAN) work, how you like to shop, what kind of entertainment, etc. There are these areas that are served by mass trans now that will take you downtown or to other parts of town. I could very easily be car free where I live right now. Does it have rail...NO. Does it have high rise communal living at the curb....NO. But it is walkable with sidewalks, grocery stores, high and low end shopping, lots of restaurants, some bars, etc. The area is very diverse and within 15 minutes walking are $5 million homes and $500 a month rent apartments. There are parks, bike paths, playgrounds and lakes within walking distance. We have virtually every race and a variety of nationalities within a mile radius. I am easily within walking distance of where I work, and quickly by bike. I can catch a bus relatively close to my house in case I want to. I could do the same in any number of areas of town.

It isn't always about what is available, but what people want to see and are willing to do. Most see only what they want to see.

Where.

[OKCisOK4me]

Downtown OKC and surrounding neighborhoods, yes. All of OKC proper, NO WAY JOSE!

[Rover]

Where.

Try the area around Wilshire and May on down to 63rd and May, for one.

[Teo9969]

It's something that I categorize into my "Pussification" of America file.

This quote is arguably getting a lot of attention.

Can you please define "Pussification"? And can you please outline how choosing to use a very basic human motor skill for transportation (one that keeps you healthier and saves money) takes away from whatever it is that is being "pussified"?

[bradh]

Try the area around Wilshire and May on down to 63rd and May, for one.

If I lived in that area I'd want to be car free, that stretch of May is one of the worst congested roads in all of the city.