Friends for a Better Boulevard

[Urban Pioneer]

SW Aviator on the Gwin Faulconer Show Sunday night.

The Gwin Faulconer-Lippert Show 4 (Audio)

[Plutonic Panda]

Now everyone, just remain calm, ODOT just needs to get the details more detailed and then we'll know what the details are, with more detail.

From Steve's chat

Steve Lackmeyer 11:10 a.m. OK. I know this has been requested for a few weeks. I'll go ahead and post here on the chat. The following is an email conversation that took place on May 30, 2014:

Steve: Eric Wenger has said that ODOT won’t pay for the grid option (Option D). Is this true?

ODOT: We've answered your question about funding before and nothing's changed since our May 15 email. Many of these details and specifics will be sorted out once an alternate is selected.

Our discussions with the City and project agreements have been clear from the beginning, that construction using federal funds on the project will be available for any roadway work that will take place within the old I-40 right-of-way. Any alternative selected will be eligible for federal funding. Any alternative selected will require ODOT and the City of OKC to discuss revisions to the project agreement based on additional features and what would still qualify for funding.

STEVE: OK, I just talked to Eric, so let’s take another shot at this.
Is it true ODOT will not fund the portion of Option D, as it is presented, that stretches from Walker and Western Avenues and is not in the old I-40 highway alignment?

ODOT: While Option D is eligible for federal funds, the portion from Walker to Western is not included in the current agreement because it is outside of old I-40 right-of-way.

We're concerned your singling out this one alternate when others include areas that are outside of current funding obligation per project agreement. As said before, ODOT cannot select an alternate until after the public comment process is complete after the public hearing. Many of these details and specifics will be sorted out once an alternate is selected. No matter which alternate is selected, ODOT is committed to work with the City of OKC for resolution of these issues.

Steve: I am not singling this out. This is a reflection of what was said at Eric Wenger’s presentation. There were no other comments regarding portions of the other options that also are not going to be funded by ODOT.
Please provide me with that information and I will use that as well.

ODOT: Steve, let me clarify more. We have responded....any portions in any of the options that fall outside the footprint of the old Crosstown right of way will have to be evaluated for funding in a new agreement

STEVE: OK.
Let me ask my question differently.
Can you please provide me with a list of improvements/road upgrades shown on Options A through C that are not considered to be within the old highway alignment?

ODOT: There isn't very detailed information because plans are not detailed yet.

Part of Alternate C not included in the original I-40 right of way includes the Classen to Western connection and the modification to Reno.

Alternates A, B, C and D all have the Oklahoma Connection that is out of original I-40 right of way.

Again, please realize that many of these details and specifics will be sorted out once an alternate is selected. No matter which alternate is selected, ODOT is committed to work with the City of OKC for resolution of these issues.

- OKC Central Chat transcript, Aug. 22, 2014 | News OK

[David]

So, ODOT wants to build a highway, and they are going to use their control of the purse strings to force the grid option off the table. I wonder if that would fly should the city actually escalate this up to the federal level, assuming such a statement makes sense.

The voice in the back of my mind that is wearing a tin foil hat is wondering how much more the appropriate contractors will be paid to build A, B, or C as opposed to D.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

[catch22]

*My own personal opinion and not that of any other entity*

I don't think the city is too interested in picking a public fight with ODOT. The City (Wenger and PW) seems to be quiet on this, and seems to tell the public that they want x, X, and XX. But, doesn't seem too firm in keeping ODOT in check.

The chance the City (As in the City of Oklahoma City) escalates this to the federal level is nil. Any way the feds force a decision is if public advocacy groups show the FHWA that the people (the citizens) are P'd off at this process and does not trust the bad faith efforts shown by ODOT, and the limp wrist actions shown by PW and Wenger.

*/End personal opinion*

[betts]

So, ODOT wants to build a highway, and they are going to use their control of the purse strings to force the grid option off the table. I wonder if that would fly should the city actually escalate this up to the federal level, assuming such a statement makes sense.

The voice in the back of my mind that is wearing a tin foil hat is wondering how much more the appropriate contractors will be paid to build A, B, or C as opposed to D.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

My husband always says, "Whose uncle is in the concrete business?" That certainly seems likely, based on the fact that ODOT is basically building a long exit/entrance ramp from I-40 through the best expanse of downtown land available for development we have. I have yet to talk to one citizen who thinks this boulevard is a good idea, including the people who don't walk or bicycle. But, our opinions clearly don't matter.

[Plutonic Panda]

My husband always says, "Whose uncle is in the concrete business?" That certainly seems likely, based on the fact that ODOT is basically building a long exit/entrance ramp from I-40 through the best expanse of downtown land available for development we have. I have yet to talk to one citizen who thinks this boulevard is a good idea, including the people who don't walk or bicycle. But, our opinions clearly don't matter.

I like the ramp. I've talked to plenty of people who like the Boulevard. It's just how it gets built is the problem

[catch22]

I like the ramp. I've talked to plenty of people who like the Boulevard. It's just how it gets built is the problem

I can't think of anyone who likes the Boulevard. Even those who are suburban oriented people. Since we are just being contrary today.

[Paseofreak]

I like the ramp. I've talked to plenty of people who like the Boulevard. It's just how it gets built is the problem

If we don't build The Ramp, we could use that money to build the finest restored grid on the planet!

[Plutonic Panda]

I can't think of anyone who likes the Boulevard. Even those who are suburban oriented people. Since we are just being contrary today.

Hmmm. I don't know man. I Honestly have not heard one negative thing about it outside of this board and really the Internet, but then again, it isn't something that I exactly talk about with people a daily basis.

The people I have talked to about, have either not heard of it and when I told them about it, they liked it, or the ones that did know about it liked it.

[Plutonic Panda]

If we don't build The Ramp, we could use that money to build the finest restored grid on the planet!

true. Just curious, how much is this ramp going to cost. I honestly didn't even know they were building one with direct access off of I235

[warreng88]

I can't think of anyone who likes the Boulevard. Even those who are suburban oriented people. Since we are just being contrary today.

I have a few friends who work downtown but live in the burbs that complain about the Boulevard possibly having a lower speed limit than originally thought (45 to 25) and say it is a waste of money since that needs to get people out of downtown. I always tell them that is what the ten lane monster south of that is for.

[Hutch]

I don't think the city is too interested in picking a public fight with ODOT.

The City doesn't have to pick a fight with ODOT over the Boulevard. For the most part, ODOT will build the Boulevard the way the City wants them to build it. And the City Council has previously made their preference clear.

From ODOT's perspective, this is simply a project they agreed to do for the City as a result of ODOT's decision to move the Crosstown so far to the south. The Boulevard will not be a state or federal highway when complete...it will be a city street, and neither ODOT nor the State will have ownership, control or maintenance responsibilities for the Boulevard. Full ownership and responsibility will be transferred to the City when it is complete. It's not ODOT that cares about and is driving the design and function...it's the City. More specifically, it's being driven by those on City staff who view the design simply from a traffic engineers perspective and honestly believe that the most important aspect of the design is to move cars in and out of downtown as quickly and efficiently as possible. But it's also being driven by any number of downtown interests who listen to and think that City staff's perspective is the best one as far as their interests are concerned, and they have certainly lobbied City Council and staff to stick with the throughway design. If the design is going to change any further, it will only happen if City Council provides the directive to do so.

While it's easy to point fingers at ODOT, at this point in the project ODOT may be steering the ship, but they are not the ones setting the course and providing the heading and bearing. That would be City Council and City staff. Of course, they would prefer it if you continue to place full responsibility for the decision with ODOT. And there's very little the FHWA can do at this point, as far as the selection of the Preferred Alternative goes. Their job is to make sure the federal environmental review process is properly followed. As long as NEPA requirements are met, they won't get involved in forcing adoption of a particular alternative. That's the City's and ODOT's decision, and if the City thinks the throughway design is the better way to go, the FHWA will not object as long as all NEPA and other federal regulations have been met.

[Rover]

Hmmm. I don't know man. I Honestly have not heard one negative thing about it outside of this board and really the Internet, but then again, it isn't something that I exactly talk about with people a daily basis.

The people I have talked to about, have either not heard of it and when I told them about it, they liked it, or the ones that did know about it liked it.

Only a portion of OKCitians will use the ramp Or boulevard on a regular or semi-regular basis. The others don't obsess over it or assume they don't know enough about what the design should be to render a strong opinion. Most will only have an opinion after it is built, and then it will be based on their own needs and how they are fulfilled.

[okclee]

I don't remember where I found this but this is a bicycle and pedestrian roundabout that goes over fast moving okc type boulevard.

[okclee]

^^ As advanced as it is, I actually could see Okc doing something like this over the boulevard especially around the classen/western area. It would definitely make the boulevard more interesting and possibly solve a few of the design problems with pedestrians and cyclists.

[Urban Pioneer]

The City doesn't have to pick a fight with ODOT over the Boulevard. For the most part, ODOT will build the Boulevard the way the City wants them to build it. And the City Council has previously made their preference clear.

From ODOT's perspective, this is simply a project they agreed to do for the City as a result of ODOT's decision to move the Crosstown so far to the south. The Boulevard will not be a state or federal highway when complete...it will be a city street, and neither ODOT nor the State will have ownership, control or maintenance responsibilities for the Boulevard. Full ownership and responsibility will be transferred to the City when it is complete. It's not ODOT that cares about and is driving the design and function...it's the City. More specifically, it's being driven by those on City staff who view the design simply from a traffic engineers perspective and honestly believe that the most important aspect of the design is to move cars in and out of downtown as quickly and efficiently as possible. But it's also being driven by any number of downtown interests who listen to and think that City staff's perspective is the best one as far as their interests are concerned, and they have certainly lobbied City Council and staff to stick with the throughway design. If the design is going to change any further, it will only happen if City Council provides the directive to do so.

While it's easy to point fingers at ODOT, at this point in the project ODOT may be steering the ship, but they are not the ones setting the course and providing the heading and bearing. That would be City Council and City staff. Of course, they would prefer it if you continue to place full responsibility for the decision with ODOT. And there's very little the FHWA can do at this point, as far as the selection of the Preferred Alternative goes. Their job is to make sure the federal environmental review process is properly followed. As long as NEPA requirements are met, they won't get involved in forcing adoption of a particular alternative. That's the City's and ODOT's decision, and if the City thinks the throughway design is the better way to go, the FHWA will not object as long as all NEPA and other federal regulations have been met.

I'm not sure I completely agree. I do think that Jim Couch and Eric Wenger do have influence. I do think that they have assisted in making sure that we pursue more or less a NW Expressway design. Their urban philosophies are oriented around traffic volume and movement.

However, the only way Jim Couch and Eric Wenger would do something different is if our City Council was completely uniform in agreement and requested a different course. However, our City Council was and has never had a uniform opinion about this Boulevard and how it should be designed. Quite simply, some understand the importance of good urban design and some do not.

But even if it our City Council was uniform in their opinion and literally directed Jim Couch to inform ODOT what is acceptable, there is absolutely no guarantee that ODOT would follow that direction.

They didn't even follow the City Council's explicit choice on the I-40 alignment itself. You of all people should know that. ODOT decided they wanted to put the Crosstown on the Union Station rail yard and that's what they did. They said thanks for your vote.... That was precious... Now were still going to do what we want.

It's not the City Council that it is the problem, it is the absence of planners with influence, urban design education, and traffic engineers who actually control the largest infrastructure budgets at both the State and City levels.

[Hutch]

I'm not sure I completely agree. I do think that Jim Couch and Eric Wenger do have influence. I do think that they have assisted in making sure that we pursue more or less a NW Expressway design. Their urban philosophies are oriented around traffic volume and movement.

However, the only way Jim Couch and Eric Wenger would do something different is if our City Council was completely uniform in agreement and requested a different course. However, our City Council was and has never had a uniform opinion about this Boulevard and how it should be designed. Quite simply, some understand the importance of good urban design and some do not.

But even if it our City Council was uniform in their opinion and literally directed Jim Couch to inform ODOT what is acceptable, there is absolutely no guarantee that ODOT would follow that direction.

They didn't even follow the City Council's explicit choice on the I-40 alignment itself. You of all people should know that. ODOT decided they wanted to put the Crosstown on the Union Station rail yard and that's what they did. They said thanks for your vote.... That was precious... Now were still going to do what we want.

It's not the City Council that it is the problem, it is the absence of planners with influence, urban design education, and traffic engineers who actually control the largest infrastructure budgets at both the State and City levels.

Thanks for the insight. It's clear now we're past the political point of further considerations. Time to move on down the road...no pun intended

[Urban Pioneer]

lol. Its up to the FHWA now...

[bchris02]

Only a portion of OKCitians will use the ramp Or boulevard on a regular or semi-regular basis. The others don't obsess over it or assume they don't know enough about what the design should be to render a strong opinion. Most will only have an opinion after it is built, and then it will be based on their own needs and how they are fulfilled.

If the Boulevard was built primarily with pedestrian-friendliness in mind, there would likely be a lot of complaining from people who come into downtown from the suburbs and rural areas. The problem with ODOT being in control is they have the state of Oklahoma's best interests in mind, not the city of Oklahoma City. Thinking about this from the perspective of somebody who lives in Weatherford and comes to OKC for Thunder games, it makes sense to design a boulevard is primarily designed to get cars in and out of downtown as quickly and as efficiently as possible. Why not just let ODOT built this boulevard primarily for suburbanites?

This may just be me, but I think after the new boulevard is built and in place, the city could focus on urbanizing Reno and make it the pedestrian-oriented showcase thoroughfare many have wanted the boulevard to be. It's clear that ODOT is going to do what it wants regardless.

[CuatrodeMayo]

This was in my inbox this morning. You can look at the preferred alternative at the link below.

You're invited!

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation (ODOT) and the City of Oklahoma City invite you to attend a public hearing to present the preferred alternative and results of the Environmental Assessment completed for the Crosstown Boulevard. The hearing will begin with an open house at 5:00 PM. During the open house, members of the public can provide written comments, visit one-on-one with staff, and provide private verbal comments. The open house will be followed by a formal presentation at 5:30 PM. At 6:00 PM members of the public will have an opportunity to give public verbal comments. Each individual signed up to speak by 6:15 PM will have a maximum of 3 minutes to speak. Join us to learn more about the future of the Crosstown Boulevard as well as next steps moving forward!

Crosstown Boulevard Public Hearing
Thursday, November 13, 2014

5:00 PM Open House
5:30 PM Formal Presentation
6:00 PM Formal Public Comments

Chevy Bricktown Events Center

429 E. California Street
Free parking is available in the lot directly
to the south of the event center.

The hearing will begin with an open house at 5:00 PM. During the open house, members of the public can provide written comments, visit one-on-one with staff, and provide private verbal comments. The open house will be followed by a formal presentation at 5:30 PM. At 6:00 PM members of the public will have an opportunity to give public verbal comments. Each individual signed up to speak by 6:15 PM will have a maximum of 3 minutes to speak.

The EA describes the project’s purpose and need, the range of alternatives considered including the Preferred Alternative, the social, economic and environmental effect of the alternatives, and the agency coordination and public involvement activities conducted as part of the EA. For this project, ODOT and FHWA developed a “user friendly” EA based on the latest guidance from FHWA’s Every Day Counts initiative. This focuses on accelerating project delivery through innovative ideas and collaboration. Industry guidelines, such as the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, provide examples of effective “user friendly” environmental documents such as those used in Oregon, Ohio, and Washington, among others.

The EA and supporting project technical reports are available on the ODOT website at http://www.odot.org/meetings/a2014/141113/Environmental%20Assessment.htm. The goal here is to increase collaboration with the public by using technology to distribute project information efficiently. The EA is also available in printed form at:
Oklahoma Department of Transportation
200 N.E. 21st St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73105

City of Oklahoma City
200 N Walker
Oklahoma City, OK 73102

Metropolitan Downtown Library
300 Park Avenue
Oklahoma City, OK 73102

If any person wishes to submit written comments concerning this project or the EA, they may submit his/her comments to the Environmental Programs Division Engineer, Oklahoma Department of Transportation, 200 NE 21st Street, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, 73105 or email environment@odot.org, by no later than December 1, 2014(postmarked on or by December 1, 2014).

[David]

So, the Preferred Alignment:







Because hey, why not rebuild a highway that you just spent the better part of a billion dollars to move a mile to the south.

[CuatrodeMayo]

The positives are the intersections at Shartel and Lee. The negatives are the same that have already been noted.

I really hope the Farmer's Market people really step up and oppose the closing of Exchange. With the connections to the Market and the Stockyards, that street has an opportunity to be really special.

[DoctorTaco]

I'll give them credit for incremental improvements to Option C. While the powers that be are not listening as much as we might wish, they are listening, a little.

[catch22]

Once the city receives ownership, can they reinstate Exchange?

[CuatrodeMayo]

I want to say the Exchange closure was a city-initiated idea, but I'm not sure.