Only the rich pay taxes

[bandnerd]

Wow. At least I can spell Testament. I have read it before. Obviously you haven't been around long enough to know that hurling references to the Bible will not change my mind in any way. Save it for the Christians.

I never said anyone lives "well" on welfare--you're putting words into my mouth. Welfare is a program that people are supposed to use to get back on their feet after a job loss or other tragedy. But people abuse it and use the welfare system as a permanent income instead of a temporary income. That's what I have a problem with. Not the system itself, or the fact that people need to use it...I have a problem with those who abuse it. Don't even try and tell me people don't. Remember Katrina? How many people abused the system then? And that was just one tragedy.

I agree with mmm. I'd rather keep more of the money I earn. I do not tithe, I rarely give money to organizations like United Way. I give items, like clothing and blankets(which we are currently bagging up tons of old clothes, some of them in brand-new condition) to Goodwill or the Salvation Army.

It is not my responsibility to pay for someone else's mistakes. I give what I can, but I don't think that anyone should be required to do so. Are they going to help me? I was unemployed for awhile, I wasn't offered any handouts. We even considered signing up for food stamps at that time. But I didn't, because I knew it was a last...very last...resort for me. I got a job, and got back on my feet.

Like I said, I give what I can, when I can. Plenty of others do the same. Some of my tax money already goes to government programs to help the homeless and whatnot, I really would rather they not take any more.

Ironic you pick out teachers and lawyers...since I'm a teacher and my husband is in law school. Coincidence? Both provide needed services to the community. Lawyers have to go through quite a bit more schooling, and it is expensive. I got out in 5 years (my degree was a required 5 years unless you were crazy and took 22 credit hours/semester). My education cost pennies compared to the debt my husband will be in once out of law school.

I'm on a bit of a tangent here, and I apologize for that. You obviously were either part of a fraternity that only focused drinking contests, and have never seen the good things they can do. I have seen the good side. Granted, their contribution may be smaller than other organizations, but they are students, and isn't a small contribution better than no contribution at all?

[Shake2005]

I have familiary with frats, and drinking and parties and future business contacts were far more important than helping anyone. The charity work was regarded only as part of paying dues. Upper middle class (or more) white boys don't really need much charity. The charity work may well be good training about the worth of service to the community for the kids involved, but, more than that, little difference is made.

So you feel that it’s not a problem that people in this country go hungry? This state leads the nation in hungry children. Not an issue for you? They just need a kick in the pants?

Perfect.

Homeless people don’t concern you? Many are mentally ill and are out there due to circumstances beyond their control. Kick in the pants for them too? Homeless children, again, not an issue?

We have thousands of children in this state without healthcare, some die because of it. Again, not a concern?

Many children in this country drop out of school because they are food or housing insecure, they bounce school to school with their parents and eventually just drop out. But then that’s all their fault, they need a kick in the pants. It’s probable that if their parents had more stable housing and food without moving constantly and playing the system, the children would have a better chance of breaking the cycle by staying in school. You are a teacher in an urban area, tell me I’m wrong about this.

I have a relative who is an investigator for DHS child welfare. You really, really don’t want to know how many people live in this world. The kinds of tragedies that a large percentage of children experience in life before they are old enough to drive would rip you apart. Many children that have children in order to get welfare do it to escape really nasty situations and living conditions. These kids get many “kicks in the pants” that you or I would struggle to even survive.

Maybe, if we ensured that everyone, no matter the circumstance, would have some basic level of human needs taken care of then the poor would not feel the need to have children to gain welfare or to otherwise cheat the system.

I guess all that is not your problem, not your fault, so it’s all good. Human beings are worth less to you than some marginal rate change in taxes.

This is just one of many reasons why the right is morally bankrupt. But it’s a damn good one. Saving a few tax dollars instead of providing for homeless vets with PTSD or hungry kids, this is what you are saying.

Would you leave a cold and hungry dog on the side of the road? So, Why would you leave a child? We as a nation leave many people out in the cold. Why?

[bandnerd]

I guess you have me all figured out. What can I say? I've been called "soul-less" on this forum before. I was also called an unfit future mother. I would think that I, someone who came from a family with very little money but who made something out of herself, would understand better than you...someone who simply happens to have a connection with DHS. YOU live it, and then judge me.

I don't think I have ever said that every homeless person, or every person on welfare is cheating the system, or needs a kick in the pants. There are most certainly some out there that do, but of course not all of them. I do have a heart. I understand that there are mentally disabled homeless people, I've met them while walking the streets downtown where I live. I understand, far better than you, the trials and tribulations some parents go through who have no money and are trying to raise a child.

I do not, however, believe for a second that there are no cheaters out there. I have dealt with them, too. We are not the only nation with a homeless problem, or starving children. We don't have it all figured out...I don't, and you don't.

But like I said, you obviously have me all figured out.

You, however, I am unable to figure out because you keep swinging far left and then far right.

[Shake2005]

Why do people cheat the system?

Because they are desperate.

Make them less desperate and there will be less cheating, what you call cheating, many would call surviving.

And our problems with homeless and extreme poverty are unique in the developed world. We are the wealthiest nation on the planet, something like 60% of the worlds wealth is here with 5% of the population and yet people go hungry. it's disgusting.

The states in this nation with the highest taxes are also the wealthiest, have the fewest poor people, are the best educated with the highest standards of living. There is a direct correlation that Oklahoma would do very well to learn.

This state is penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to taxes. Taxes can and should be an investment in the community. Who cares if the rich pay more, this society gave them the opportunity to get to that lofty place and they owe it back to society to offer some of the same advantages they had to as many as possible.

And easing human suffering when possible should always be a good thing.

[bandnerd]

They cheat the system because THEY CAN.

I'm not opposed to having these programs. I just don't see why throwing more money at the problem is going to help. Manage the money you do have, manage the people who use it, and there won't be as many problems. It will never be perfect, nothing is, but it reminds me of the way OK handles education money...POORLY.

Obviously, though, you are very deeply rooted in your beliefs, and so am I. I know I won't change your mind, and you will not change mine.

But I just have problems trusting a system that gives people, "helpless" people, the means to afford things I can't even afford with my hard-earned money. Bluetooth phones, nice cars, nice clothes. A lot of my students come from very poor families and have more "nice" things than I do. But instead of squandering my money on useless things, I save my money and purchase what I need most of the time, and what I want very little of the time. I manage my money, and I'm not about to let someone come into my life and take more away from me when I EARNED it.

[Easy180]

Call me a half carer...Do understand there are plenty of horrible situations in the world, but only so much you can do....Give my 1% of pay to United Way, pay my taxes and consider myself squared away with the world