Streetcar

[warreng88]

I think we should rename the Streetcar to Central Oklahoma City Kickoff System... That way, when people ask how you are getting from McNellies to the Thunder game, "Oh, I riding the..."

[soonerguru]

JohnH is clearly working with some bad information. No problem. Council procedure can be confusing at times. Still, he seems to have an aching desire to bash the streetcar, which is unfortunate. And noted.

[Bullbear]

I think we should rename the Streetcar to Central Oklahoma City Kickoff System... That way, when people ask how you are getting from McNellies to the Thunder game, "Oh, I riding the..."

[JohnH_in_OKC]

The streetcar RFP and whitewater facility contract were on the consent docket, which was approved unanimously. The 5-4 vote you are referring to concerned the whitewater park contract, which was discussed immediately after the streetcar item and before the vote on the consent docket. While there were questions concerning the streetcar and the wired system, they were fully explained and answered by the consultant and there was no opposition expressed. The opposition that occurred was during the following discussion on the whitewater park contract, when a couple of Councilmembers objected to the proposed option 1, at which point Council took a vote on option 1, which passed 5-4. Immediately following that vote, the consent docket, including the streetcar RFP was approved 9-0.

Thanks. You're right about the whitewater course vote. My attention span is atrocious sometimes. Thank goodness for video recording & people with better memories than I have.

[JohnH_in_OKC]

Put up or shut up. Do you have a name for that streetcar committee member or are you just spreading unsourced gossip?

Yes. I announced the name (without realizing the info given me was confidential) at a streetcar public meeting about a year ago. I got the person who told me in trouble with his friends. I will try to message Steve Lackmeyer with the name & he can decide what to do with the information.

[David]

Yes. I announced the name (without realizing the info given me was confidential) at a streetcar public meeting about a year ago. I got the person who told me in trouble with his friends. I will try to message Steve Lackmeyer with the name & he can decide what to do with the information.

That reads like "I don't actually have a name, but I want to keep the rumors going anyway".

[JohnH_in_OKC]

Note: I think OKC having a streetcar is fantastic. I just believe OKC should be the first in the nation to use induction technology to power our streetcars. If we do, the nation might one day power all of our vehicles (bus, truck, car, transit, train) using inductive wireless electric power. It makes a lot more sense than our electric cars each carrying expensive electric batteries & weighing hundreds of wasted pounds. From my reading, I think the nation would save on power & stop a lot of unnecessary pollution by carbon emitting vehicles. One example is that the Nuwave induction cooktop is claimed to save up to 90% of the energy of a regular electric cooktop. (Not a great example, but inductive electric charging of electronic devices is likely coming to a table near you.) Also, the traffic signals in OKC are usually controlled by inductive sensing plates under the pavement.

[Plutonic Panda]

I agree. But it seems I am in the minority on this board on this this subject.

[David]

For the purposes of our streetcar system, that would be terrible stewardship of our tax dollars. You never want to be the guy who beta tests technology, especially when you are spending 120+ million dollars to do so.

I am familiar with inductive charging, as we speak my cell phone is charging on an inductive charger within arm's reach of where I am typing this response. The difference is it cost me 50 bucks, not 50 million.

[Plutonic Panda]

For the purposes of our streetcar system, that would be terrible stewardship of our tax dollars. You never want to be the guy who beta tests technology, especially when you are spending 120+ million dollars to do so.

I am familiar with inductive charging, as we speak my cell phone is charging on an inductive charger within arm's reach of where I am typing this response. The difference is it cost me 50 bucks, not 50 million.

Well, that's true to. I'm just going to stay out of this anyhow and perhaps it might be better to go with a hybrid wire system.

[JohnH_in_OKC]

For the purposes of our streetcar system, that would be terrible stewardship of our tax dollars. You never want to be the guy who beta tests technology, especially when you are spending 120+ million dollars to do so.

I am familiar with inductive charging, as we speak my cell phone is charging on an inductive charger within arm's reach of where I am typing this response. The difference is it cost me 50 bucks, not 50 million.

We couldn't do an inductive charged streetcar system without MAJOR participation of the federal government & the application & approval would set back the streetcar project at least two years. But the possible benefit in leading the nation out of our gasoline powered vehicles would be tremendous & worth the wait in my opinion.

[JohnH_in_OKC]

That reads like "I don't actually have a name, but I want to keep the rumors going anyway".

David - I am pretty sure that both Betts & Urban Pioneer know whom I am referring. Send them both a private message & then you can reveal the name, if you want.

[David]

David - I am pretty sure that both Betts & Urban Pioneer know whom I am referring. Send them both a private message & then you can reveal the name, if you want.

Why would I produce your list of names? You either have it in your hand or you don't.

[JohnH_in_OKC]

Why would I produce your list of names? You either have it in your hand or you don't.

I just sent Steve Lackmeyer a private message. It included the person who told me about the situation as well as the streetcar committee member who purchased the property. If you get permission from Betts and Urban Pioneer, I will also send you the same message.

[Bullbear]

[catch22]

This is ridiculous.

Can we please leave the conspiracy theories and personal attacks somewhere else? John I have met you in person at one of the previous OKCTalk meetings, you are a nice guy and I am disappointed in you casting out a red herring.

Regarding the streetcar; hybrid is the way to go. The political and social realities regarding public transit in Oklahoma allows us really one shot to get this right. If this initial streetcar fails, especially due to technical reasons, it will basically put an end to public transit improvements. The Regional transit system we aspire to build with our neighboring suburbs and municipalities will be setback considerably, as it will then be open to attack from the Tea Party and ultra-conservative politicians and representatives of the people who are already skeptical of the streetcar.

We do not want to be the city that purchased a system that doesn't work. Conventional modern streetcar works technically, as well as functionally. There is no reason to depart from proven technology. Hybrid allows us to be a pioneer in testing the water of the new system on very short track segments, without being 100% attached to induction/battery powered.

Again, the political and social realities really does allow us one chance to get this right. We don't want to drop the ball with our one shot at initial success.

[soonerguru]

JohnH, you seem to be suggesting something nefarious -- or impropriety at the least. Please help us understand clearly what you think is improper here.

It really seems like no big deal to me.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Regarding the streetcar; hybrid is the way to go. The political and social realities regarding public transit in Oklahoma allows us really one shot to get this right. If this initial streetcar fails, especially due to technical reasons, it will basically put an end to public transit improvements. The Regional transit system we aspire to build with our neighboring suburbs and municipalities will be setback considerably, as it will then be open to attack from the Tea Party and ultra-conservative politicians and representatives of the people who are already skeptical of the streetcar.

This.

[David]

In other news, from Ben Felder on twitter (#1, #2, #3, #4):

Streetcar subcommittee hearing a report from engineers on preliminary stop recommendations.

21 of 22 potential stops have been located, still working on St. Anthony’s Hospital stop as they complete renovation, engineers say.

Engineers want to achieve a 40 minute round trip w/ 10 minute frequency at each stop. #OKCStreetcar

Streetcar subcommittee being told current estimates are for a mid-2018 completion of downtown system. #MAPS3

[JohnH_in_OKC]

JohnH, you seem to be suggesting something nefarious -- or impropriety at the least. Please help us understand clearly what you think is improper here.

It really seems like no big deal to me.

When I heard that a streetcar committee member purchased land on the planned streetcar corridor, I did think it was improper. But on reflection, even though I would never do that, not all of the people I talked with thought the situation was improper. I know everyone who buys real estate wants its value to increase -- and a whole lot of people buy real estate with the special knowledge that others (especially the sellers) don't have.

This is why I am reluctant to publicly out the individual investor, even though about a year ago, I caused quite a commotion at one of our streetcar public meetings when I revealed his (or her) name and my source.

[catch22]

The route has been public knowledge for how many years now?

And the engineers designed the route. And the subcommittee voted on the final route out of the proposed options the engineers drew up.

[Teo9969]

In other news, from Ben Felder on twitter (#1, #2, #3):

Streetcar subcommittee hearing a report from engineers on preliminary stop recommendations.

21 of 22 potential stops have been located, still working on St. Anthony’s Hospital stop as they complete renovation, engineers say.

Engineers want to achieve a 40 minute round trip w/ 10 minute frequency at each stop. #OKCStreetcar

I can dig it...That's ~20 minutes from Carter/Reno to 11th/Dewey. I do feel like 22 stops is maybe 2 to 4 too many. Cut a few stops and you could probably enhance the round trip to 35ish minutes and about 9 minute frequency.

[warreng88]

say it!

[Urban Pioneer]

When I heard that a streetcar committee member purchased land on the planned streetcar corridor, I did think it was improper. But on reflection, even though I would never do that, not all of the people I talked with thought the situation was improper. I know everyone who buys real estate wants its value to increase -- and a whole lot of people buy real estate with the special knowledge that others (especially the sellers) don't have.

This is why I am reluctant to publicly out the individual investor, even though about a year ago, I caused quite a commotion at one of our streetcar public meetings when I revealed his (or her) name and my source.

I don't remember this meeting. But then all of our meetings seem to have a lot of commotion. A the meeting a month ago we had a citizen who was convinced that we should stop all plans and build a monorail instead of the streetcar.

I like monorails and I like induction. We don't have the budget for either and we are prohibited by law from pursuing the latter. We so seriously considered induction that it delayed the project by 6 months and one of our subcommittee members actually flew to Germany to ride Bombardier's induction streetcar on it's test track. BTW, the induction streetcars also carry batteries. They are hybrids too. Energization occurs during the initial acceleration. The rest of the trip between stops is carried by batteries and super capacitors.

Regarding the subcommittee member who supposedly bought property along the route... If that's true, why do you think he/she had insider information? All of our meetings are public. Anyone who was attentive to our public meetings could have made the same decision and assumed the same risk... Not seeing what the big deal is here.

BTW, today's public meeting was great and thanks Ben Felder for tweeting about it.

[JohnH_in_OKC]

I repeated to you in a regretful moment of frustration what I'd heard. Only to have you repeat it at a public meeting. I re-learned one lesson learned a new one that day. Don't repeat rumors and don't tell you something you don't want repeated in a very public forum. Lesson learned. I've moved on. Someone hasn't.

I'm sorry I dredged up old wounds. Sometimes I post without proper reflection. I think my dream of a world with vehicles powered using inductive power sources buried in our streets and highways was dashed, at least for now. But it's my own fault for not being more involved with the streetcar decision making process. My posting was just a spur of the moment thought that probably was better left unwritten.

We're going to build a fine streetcar system which hopefully will be very successful & something that I and our citizens will be proud. I look forward to my first ride. -- John