You could have service to Plaza without running down 16th though. For instance, you could extend the soon-to-be-existing service down 10th and then run up a street like Blackwelder or Indiana to get within a block of 16th, or even cross it into Gatewood and on to OCU. This would better serve Classen-Ten-Penn and other neighborhoods in the bargain. I agree about not running down 16th. That would be tricky if not an outright nightmare.
Hutch - I am only concerned about the OKC Metro situation. All the others are not "voting" in this initiative. ...and my Grandmother does not live in Seattle or Portland. We are only speaking of the OKC Metro. The OKC metro topography is not San Francisco. ....flat. The suburbs Edmond / Norman / Yukon / Moore will be voting for a new way of business in the OKC area....it is called OKC Metro MAPS. We have already learned that throwing money to the same people, just gets us the same Unfulfilled results. ...so yes, we will vote on this.
I have more concern over my Grandmother, because there are a few places you would be ok sending you grandma on that be noisey track. Most of the existing areas that you are willing to send your grandmother for is because you want to save a $0.015 cents on a vote? ....My Grandmother is worth more than that. Her personal safety is exactly why those areas are abandoned in the first place. You may not be that familiar w/ our city... it has many abandoned areas ( and many are close to your train tracks ).
I will close w/ this, if you spend $350 - $500 Million and no one rides it, beause of the many personal reasons why they don't want to risk their lives ( Grandma's and Grandkids too )...? ...and thus OKC Metro will be missing out on the $ 1 Billion on additional economic impact to the OKC Metro Each Year..... ??? That is the TRUE COST of NOT using Light Rail for our Metro transit solution.
..and Hutch, I don't send my kids to school w/ flipflops in the winter, I spend more than that to keep them safe and warm. It has a higher up-front cost, but they are worth it.
OKC Metro will make a vote for the Best Solution for Metro Transit, not just pick the cheapest Ford Pinto.... ( it's not safe Hutch. )
And the LIght Rail can exceed speeds greater than 79 mph. Your large heavy trains will be closer to 35 mph for an average rate of speed.
...and the Light Rail commuter transit has seats too. ...and w/ fold-out tables for laptops.
And Yes, the Light Rail can have the flexiblity to be on grade or above grade ( if the conditions ) warrant that. See, more flexibility.
Yes Hutch, we might have to pay for this ourselves. Just like we did for MAPSI .... MAPS II. .....MAPS III. and now our business model for future project endeavors like MAPS IV, OKC Metro MAPS, and so on.
Yes, the other cities send their representative here to learn "how did you succeed, when we can't?" And we tell them, we relied on ourselves for support. Not the FTA Hutch.
If we are talking about light rail for the entire metro (Edmond, Moore/Norman, MWC/Del City) how many miles of rail are we talking about? 2nd street in Edmond to Lindsey in Norman using 235/35 would be roughly 32 miles. Santa Fe train station to I-40 and Douglas would be about nine miles. Let's just round it to 40 miles.
Using Cuatro's links to Seattle's costs and taking the low figure of $200 million per mile would cost the county ($200,000,000 x 40) $8 Billion dollars. Yeah, pretty sure I (and the most of the population of the OKC area) would prefer a lower cost for a slower train.
Let's use the USR estimate of $40 M / mile and the Texas HSR estimates that are the same . Roughly $1.6 Billion for 40 miles. The economic impact to the entire OKC metro will be an addtional $1 Billion p/year... !!!! Definately worth the ROI.
Texas to get shinkansen system | The Japan Times
Texas is looking to add the Dallas / Houston @ 248 miles. for approx. $10 Billion. ...give or take a few dollars.
I disagree. I think the rest of the OKC Metro will want the addtional $1 Billion in economical impact ( each year ). That is easy math for most all of us. If we spend 1.6 Billion, we will increase our revenue by $1 Billion each year....? ...so we could have it paid for in 2 years..???? YES !!!!!!!!!!!!
Why you don't run to the Plaza:
1. It doesn't tease urban development to a main artery. Even in Europe, the major points of interest have major roads either through or very near to the different stops/stations. if the Plaza can't extend to Classen, every single one of us should be hoping it is an afterthought in the OKC urban landscape in 20 years. The Plaza is engulfed by blocks and blocks of single family homes…that's not a good thing.
2. It's a super narrow street with nothing but 2-3 blocks of 1 story buildings.
3. It can be very well served by Bus routes that lead to other major districts, particularly 23rd and downtown.
…Guys, I love the Plaza, and it is doing great things for OKC…but it's way way way too small to be of note in the OKC of 2030-40. It would need a very aggressive expansion plan that would make a stop at 16th/Classen plenty acceptable to be relevant as time continues to press forward. If we're not building our transit system for the OKC of 2030-40 (at the very least) we're missing the boat entirely.
Going north of downtown, the street-car simply has to go up Classen, Western or Penn.
The flat topography is The KEY to our cost structure for a Light Rail Commuter Line w/ Mag-Lev technology being so low. Also, our Non-Union state helps keep our cost at a very low & managable unit cost for labor.
Exclusive: FDOT OKs American Maglev?s Orlando airport-to-I-Drive route - Orlando Business Journal
This link also has a photo of what OKC Metro could have as well. A clean system that use renewable resources ( wind generates electricity and thus, powers the Mag-Lev ).
I would love it if all we did was go back to that 1929 map, with those same streetcar lines and bus interconnects and interurbans...
You should get in touch with Phil Hughes...he shares your passion for an elevated light rail system throughout the OKC metro...Hughes Synergies Corporation
Hutch, why would we ( OKC Metro ) want to pay for a $350 - $500 Million old freight train system ? The ACOG is anchoring us in an old techonoloy that will be out of date as soon as the ribbon is cut. ....and no one will ride this train that has to share the track w/ the freight lines.
This is NOT the product that we deserve!
Sharing a track with freight trains does not equal buying out of date trains to use for commuters. The trains themselves can still be very modern and enjoyable to be on, and the rider has no idea which track they're on.
Sharing a track w/ freight means
- Grandma will be walking in the "freight yard" to find her large heavy diesel trains.
- The single mom and her 2 kids will be going into many un-safe areas and their lives will be at risk.
- The Professional Commuter will have to be on the "freight schedule" and therefore the times will be slow and not worth the effort. ie: Drive to Dallas ( 3 hrs ) or Ride The Train ( 5 hrs ). ???
also, the times from Norman to DT / Edmond to DT will not be worth the effort. Longer commute times!!!!!
- The trains will be comfortable as you sit and wait for hours..............
So, the ACOG is offering us this? ....why would anyone want this? .... because the Ford Pinto is cheaper. Thank you ACOG for the Ford Pinto. Did you know the Ford Pinto explodes on impact when hit from the rear? ......This is a great example of what happens when we accept the Cheaper option when they tell us "it's ok".
ACOG, we are worth more than this.
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