Dallas

[Geographer]

I was at a ULI North Texas meeting last week and there was a panel discussion about the Trinity Parkway. One of the panelists was, I believe, the president of the citizens' council. She was very in favor of the project. Well, a Dallas city councilwoman was at the meeting as well and she got into an argument with the the panelist saying she hopes the project never happens. It was interesting to see the hotly contested issue in person.

I really hope it isn't built. The last thing Dallas needs is more and more urban highways. It would pretty much kill the experience of hiking, walking, biking near the river....not to mention that we shouldn't be building huge road infrastructure between flood levees!

[Plutonic Panda]

I was at a ULI North Texas meeting last week and there was a panel discussion about the Trinity Parkway. One of the panelists was, I believe, the president of the citizens' council. She was very in favor of the project. Well, a Dallas city councilwoman was at the meeting as well and she got into an argument with the the panelist saying she hopes the project never happens. It was interesting to see the hotly contested issue in person.

I really hope it isn't built. The last thing Dallas needs is more and more urban highways. It would pretty much kill the experience of hiking, walking, biking near the river....not to mention that we shouldn't be building huge road infrastructure between flood levees!

yes because all the huge roads and highways in Dallas are hampering development. That is why Dallas is doing so poorly in new construction and growth.

[Geographer]

yes because all the huge roads and highways in Dallas are hampering development. That is why Dallas is doing so poorly in new construction and growth.

I didn't say anything about hampering development or that Dallas was doing so poorly in new construction of growth.

I'm advocating that another urban toll road through a FLOODPLAIN is a bad idea.

With that said, I would advise you to check out A New Dallas to see what kind of effect that removing an urban highway could have for downtown Dallas.

[Plutonic Panda]

I didn't say anything about hampering development or that Dallas was doing so poorly in new construction of growth.

I'm advocating that another urban toll road through a FLOODPLAIN is a bad idea.

With that said, I would advise you to check out A New Dallas to see what kind of effect that removing an urban highway could have for downtown Dallas.

Actually I don't support the Trinity Tollway just FYI. I just think the highways in Dallas are amazing and something we should look to as model. I also love their Dart system and wonder when we'll get something like that.

[Bullbear]

Actually I don't support the Trinity Tollway just FYI. I just think the highways in Dallas are amazing and something we should look to as model. I also love their Dart system and wonder when we'll get something like that.

I really don't want to see highways like the mixmasters that Dallas has developed in OKC. all the elevated roadway is a nightmare for Ice and snow and maintenance. we just removed I-40 Crosstown I don't think we want to make that mistake again.

[Plutonic Panda]

I really don't want to see highways like the mixmasters that Dallas has developed in OKC. all the elevated roadway is a nightmare for Ice and snow and maintenance. we just removed I-40 Crosstown I don't think we want to make that mistake again.

I wouldn't mind seeing it but ground level would better. I want to see something like Central Expressway or the new 635 redesign here one day when traffic numbers support it.

[Geographer]

I really don't want to see highways like the mixmasters that Dallas has developed in OKC. all the elevated roadway is a nightmare for Ice and snow and maintenance. we just removed I-40 Crosstown I don't think we want to make that mistake again.

Plupan, I know you really do like the highway system in Dallas, but frankly it's kind of a nightmare. People drive so fast and the highways are so large and so wide that it's really intimidating. The lifespan of many of these highways are coming to a close where they need serious repair, maintenance, and reconstruction that the area, TXDOT, and the Fed's simply can't pay for it. All of the highways, especially urban highways, dissect neighborhoods in Dallas/Fort Worth so much that it makes it really hard to walk between urban neighborhoods immediately east, south, and southeast of downtown Dallas.

Too many transportation decisions down here by TXDOT and NTTA about their expansion of new highways and toll roads are made without considering the land use consequences of expansion into rural and ex-urban areas. Transportation decisions by TXDOT and NTTA are being made in silos by civil engineers looking really only at "level of service".

The DART system, in theory, is great. It's the largest mileage light rail system in the entire country but many of the stations are simply park-and-ride and aren't developing the kind of TOD expected. It's really hard to focus on DART/TOD while rapidly expanding and planning more and more highways out to the middle of nowhere.

And Bullbear is right, the mixmasters are concrete jungles that scream danger during ice and snow.


This is taken from the "A New Dallas" website about their vision for 345:

IH345 is the official name for the stretch of elevated highway defining the eastern boundary of downtown Dallas between Woodall Rodgers to the north and RL Thornton (I-30) to the south. It was built 40 years ago and currently divides downtown from Deep Ellum and Near East Dallas.

This independent study began 2 years ago to explore the economic, environmental, and traffic impacts of removing the freeway as it approached the end of its structural life span. While the remainder of this study explores the impacts of inner-city highways and the need to remove them, this particular highway section was chosen as opposed to the other freeways bounding downtown Dallas for a few primary reasons:

Age: Elevated highways typically have a structural lifespan of about 40. It is now 40 years old.

Structural Instability: Due to the asymmetric column structure supporting the road, it is more unstable than typical elevated freeways. Since 2000, 487 cracks have been spot repaired.

Lack of existing improvements in the area: As the economic impact section shows, the study area shows an enormous amount of underdeveloped land around IH345, mostly consisting of vacant land, surface parking lot, or excessive public right-of-way.

Lack of on-going investment in area: Due to the Arts District, uptown development, and various other projects going on around the city, the area around IH345 has the least amount of positive momentum.

No current plan on the books: At the time this study began, construction work had begun on Klyde Warren Deck Park spanning Woodall Rodgers freeway, planning for Project Pegasus and the East Corridor was on-going, therefore three of the four sides already had enormous amounts of mental and financial capital expenditures. IH345 represented the most forgotten and the greatest opportunity.

East Dallas: The original expansion direction of the city. Near East Dallas from I-30 to the historic ‘M’ Streets, from downtown to White Rock Lake consists of more than 5,000 acres of some of the best “bones” in all of Texas. However, much of the historic grid and architecture is plagued by blight and disinvestment, but it represents the best opportunity between existing and potential value.

Late in 2012, TxDOT began feasibility studies for various options to either repair or rebuild IH345. You can find the 9 options on their website. None of the current proposals include the removal of the highway section and the reconstruction of the historic grid to knit downtown back to its eastern neighborhoods as cities around the country and globe are doing. We suggest doing just that.

However stated on their website, proper weight is not being given to considerations other than moving vehicular traffic. As we’ll demonstrate in the traffic section, the 160,000 vehicles per day that use the corridor are there only because the highway is there. And both downtown and East Dallas suffer from it.

Instead, we propose using metrics and priorities other than simply maintaining status quo, including:

Revitalizing downtown Dallas, East Dallas, and Deep Ellum
Growing tax base through improved quality of life
Increasing transportation choice
Reducing unnecessary infrastructural burden and public costs
Creating more affordable walkable urban housing
Improving public safety
Expanding local business opportunities
Reducing vehicular congestion
Improving air quality

[adaniel]

I was at a ULI North Texas meeting last week and there was a panel discussion about the Trinity Parkway. One of the panelists was, I believe, the president of the citizens' council. She was very in favor of the project. Well, a Dallas city councilwoman was at the meeting as well and she got into an argument with the the panelist saying she hopes the project never happens. It was interesting to see the hotly contested issue in person.

I really hope it isn't built. The last thing Dallas needs is more and more urban highways. It would pretty much kill the experience of hiking, walking, biking near the river....not to mention that we shouldn't be building huge road infrastructure between flood levees!

I don't think its getting built now that the Mixmaster is getting widened. The costs with it have soared to about 6x what is was budgeted, and I think the population in general has hit "peak tollroad."

You are right, building a freeway inside a levee is the height of idiocy. I'm not sure who thought this was a good idea. D Magazine had a good write up on this a few months back.

The Trinity Parkway Is*Dead - D Magazine