MAPS III Redux

[Patrick]

I too do not understand the medieval theme. Why? Seriously?

Try to come up with something better if you don't like it. I'd love to hear people's ideas, instead of just people saying they don't like someone else's idea.

[Pete]

I think a Southwestern or Western them would be more appropriate in terms of architecture and colors.

But also, a truly modern structure wouldn't be the worst thing either. Not to the extreme of the Arizona Cardinals stadium but something sleek and simple would be fine with me.

[SOONER8693]

How about a domed stadium that looks like a UFO and you can pull the field in and out of the stadium. Oops, wait a minute. Never mind.

[Patrick]

How about the OK Corral and we can have it look like a big rodeo arena? LOL! Just joking, but I'm trying to open up the field for ideas on a football stadium.

[Patrick]

How about a domed stadium that looks like a UFO and you can pull the field in and out of the stadium. Oops, wait a minute. Never mind.

Roswell would laugh at us.

[Patrick]

We already have the Crystal Bridge. How about the Crystal Palace and the exterior can be all glass?

[Pete]

Something largely brick and earthy would make the most sense to me, both in terms of architecture and relating to the surrounding plains.

[BDP]

Ok, those last two ideas sound exciting. A glass and brick structure would blend into the area well and would give a nod to both classic and modern, bridging Oklahoma City's past and future.

I'm not sure that it needs a gimmick or theme, really. They've all been used up on Las Vegas Blvd anyway.

I like the idea of a shopping plaza and some housing near the stadium would cool, imo.

[Patrick]

I also think we need a serious study into whether OKC could land an NFL team. There's no question we could support one. If New Orleans can support one, I know we can. But, I'm not sure what team we could get to come here, if any. And there's not much use in building this if we can't land and NFL team.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Something largely brick and earthy would make the most sense to me, both in terms of architecture and relating to the surrounding plains.

In terms of and Oklahoma style, think Will Rogers World Airport. That is one of the best interpretations of Oklahoma architecture I have seen in a while.

[BDP]

And there's not much use in building this if we can't land and NFL team.

That is a good point. While it would be cool to have one and we could use it for other events as well, without a permanent tenant, it is a much bigger risk than, say, building an arena. There just are a lot more arena size events than there are stadium ones to fill it up until a local tenant is acquired.

I really think there are other projects that MAPS III could address with less risk and more immediate benefit. I think transportation and the new boulevard would be great and I would like to see some long term planning for the riverside district. I think an amphitheater and museum campus along with other parks along the river would be great. it would be really cool to go running, jogging, or biking along the river trails and pass various gardens, boat and duck ponds, museums, landmark pedestrian bridges, statues and art work, etc. I think if you do that, the core to shore area instantly becomes prime real estate and would develop quickly due to all of the tourism traffic that would be created between the two districts of downtown and the river.

I know there's going to be a lot of pissing matches in planning the river, but it has the potential to be Oklahoma City's signature piece, imo, as long as it isn't just relegated to being treated as another man made Oklahoma lake.

[Pete]

In terms of and Oklahoma style, think Will Rogers World Airport. That is one of the best interpretations of Oklahoma architecture I have seen in a while.

I agree completely. I believe the slate used was from local quarries. I remember when it first started to go up, some didn't like it but it all really came together IMO. And I especially like that the design was somewhat daring which conveys confidence and delivers a strong statement.

I think you merely conduct a design competition among architects and suggest that the stadium reflect the area but also be a forward-thinking design. Or perhaps you use a local firm to help come up with the general design elements and someone with the experience of HOK Sport to make it functional.

In any event, I think the idea of a stadium is the most important thing at this stage. If it gains traction, some conceptual drawings could then be developed to help market the initiative.

[SpectralMourning]

If we do a stadium, I'd definitely go for one with Art Deco architecture (though that's just my personal taste.) Has anyone actually crafted an Art Deco dome stadium? It'd be really cool if we could pull off the Art Deco sunrise/moon rise on the roof of the dome, though maybe the style's too dated for OKC. I'd just like for us to beat out Tulsa in the Art Deco movement.

Greek Revival would be fantastic as well. I've always wanted to see a modern mix-use stadium pulled off through a new Roman Amphitheater, especially for the fact that we have little Greek Revival in the city.

[BG918]

Maybe I'm wrong but I think a new stadium is completely unnecessary. Maybe further down the road but things like light and commuter rail and a new cultural attraction i.e. museum or science center should be the priorities for MAPS III. Things like the Core to Shore, new downtown blvd., Oklahoma River, etc. should have govt. oversight and maybe MAPS III would include funds to jumpstart potential projects, but they should be mainly privately funded. Not every project in this city has to be paid for by the taxpayers especially when it involves retail/restaurants/hotels/etc.

My 3 suggestions for the MAPS III website:
1. Light rail (streetcar) line in downtown. First line would connect the OUHSC with the The Triangle and Bricktown while other lines would connect to the CBD, Riverside District, Arts District, and Midtown. Great way to show OKC values progressive transit methods in its urban core.

2. Commuter rail line. Would have to get Edmond and Norman on board but this would be very successful if done right. The creation of TOD's around stations would be great for building more density in the city limits and better connecting OKC to its two most populous suburbs (and Moore).

3. Cultural attraction. I mentioned the weather museum and science center before but it could also be a contemporary arts museum or something completely unique. The city has an abundance of sports facilities, what OKC lacks is cultural institutions and such a place would be yet another attraction for the downtown area.

[Pete]

^^

I still think OKC and OK really blew it when they built the huge and expensive Oklahoma History Center near the state capitol.

For it's scale and expense ($45 million just for construction), you never hear anything about it and it's pretty clear most visitors to the city never even consider it. And I've yet to meet anyone that has actually gone, unless you count Doug L. who posted some phots here -- that showed a building that was largely vacant of people

It would have made so much sense to incorporate it with the Oklahoma River, the Land Run monument on the canal, the Native American Center, etc.

I understand that it's a state museum and thus the theory behind putting it on the captiol campus, but the truth is you can't walk to it from the capitol building or anything else. Yes, it's in the same general area, but so what??


But at the very least, I'd like to see the capitol area, the zoo and downtown/Bricktown connected via public transportation such as light rail.

[Patrick]

This is the general theme I'm seeing here:

1. Commuter Rail and Light Rail (trolley system downtown)

2. City beautification

3. Further expansion of projects along the Oklahoma River

4. Cultural Attraction

5. Stadium

[Pete]

I feel strongly that the new downtown boulevard and at least one other very nice boulevard between the new I-40 and downtown should also be included.

How many times does a city get a chance to create completely new entrances to their downtown area?

[TStheThird]

Also, aren't most new stadiums costing $750,000,000 plus. I think the money could be better spent elsewhere. If the day ever comes that we are seriously on the NFL radar, I believe the citizens will easily vote to build a stadium.

I am a fan of rail and city beautification. They could build some of the parks that are to be in the Core to Shore area.

Also, I think that should build a couple of office buildings. Use them as a business incubator. Offer low rent and tax benefits to start-up companies. When they reach a certain status, they are forced to move on. It would be cool to have a little district full of start-up companies. Advertise the hell out of this and pull entrepreneurs from all over the country. Maybe they could even sign a commitment to keep their company in OKC for a period of time.

I think that they should use some money to create and Opera or to endow performing arts. I would like to see a few more museums built.

We could also build a new giant convention center south of the Ford center like they have in the Core to Shore plans. We need a lot more convention space and hotel rooms. Let's make it happen.

[okcpulse]

A gave several new ideas on the MAPS 3 website, but two ideas I emphasised were light rail connecting OKC with Edmond, Norman, MWC and Yukon. I also would like to see the CLassen rail trolley line revived.

Another idea that came to mind were the bridges over the Oklahoma River. They are nothing short of ugly. Why not spruce up the major bridges over the river with architectural appeal? Line the bridges with arches and other ornamental aesthetic improvements. I also wanted to place an emphasis on landscaping and sidewalks along all major busy thoroughfaces.

Here's another idea. Supplement funding with ODOT to make all concrete surface OKC freeways smooth like the Lake Hefner Parkway. In addition, instead of marking them with paint stripes, mark them with elevated markers like they do here in Houston. That would reduce lane drifting and prevent a few accidents during rain storms.

[floater]

This is the general theme I'm seeing here:

1. Commuter Rail and Light Rail (trolley system downtown)

2. City beautification

3. Further expansion of projects along the Oklahoma River

4. Cultural Attraction

5. Stadium

That sounds about right, Patrick.

I like Patrick's idea of funding for public art. It seems frivolous, but it goes a long way toward developing OKC's sense of place. Those buffs showed that public art can give us a sense of pride, too -- they were mascots done with great creativity. So it will be part of my rough list:

1) OK Fixed Guideway Phase 1
2) Beautification and public art endowment to be administered by the city in conjunction with OKC Beautiful and OKC Arts Council (or new nonprofit)
3) Cultural attraction

For the cultural attraction, here some ideas:

A Millenium Park-type space for the Core-to-Shore area: Millennium Park
Health museum
Oklahoma City history museum
Chelsea Piers-like sports complex
Sculpture center
Relocation of Int'l Photography HOF (courtesy jbrown)
Independent film center (screens, library, meeting & studio space)
Ralph Ellison Literary Center (African-American library, cafe, wifi, workshop space, biographical exhibits, African-American author visits)

[SpectralMourning]

Regardless of MAPS funding or not, we need an African American center here in the city anyway. The literary center sounds like a fantastic idea for that.

[Spartan]

Try to come up with something better if you don't like it. I'd love to hear people's ideas, instead of just people saying they don't like someone else's idea.

Oklahoma City is not a medieval city. It is however an Art Deco city. Why don't we build an Art Deco football stadium if we must?

By the way, we stand nothing to gain by building a football stadium. This is not NFL turf, no matter how great we are for a pro team (of another league besides the NFL which would never work here). It does not make sense to play Bedlam in a 50,000-seat stadium, either, no matter the location. The only football that would ever be played in it would be the Arena Football 2 team (which is minor league AFL football, how sad is that??) and maybe a college bowl game. But there is no reason we can't have a college bowl game in Norman.

I for one would not support an NFL team in Oklahoma City...

[Spartan]

I also think we need a serious study into whether OKC could land an NFL team. There's no question we could support one. If New Orleans can support one, I know we can. But, I'm not sure what team we could get to come here, if any. And there's not much use in building this if we can't land and NFL team.

I know!

The Saints. And we'll take anything else New Orleans' got, too.

[Easy180]

But there is no reason we can't have a college bowl game in Norman.

We could have one, but a late December game outside in Oklahoma wouldn't be too appealing...Probably be as excited as Miami players were to play in the Boise Bowl

Only way we could land a bowl game with decent conference ties would be if we had an indoor stadium

[OSUFlounder]

My husband and I both posted on the MAPS 3 website. Living right in between Moore and Norman, we stressed the importance of a light rail system that not only incorporated downtown, Bricktown, mid-town (we lived there for serveral years), and zoo/Omniplex campus, but also the need for commuter lines that extend south (Moore, Norman), north (NW and NE OKC and Edmond), and eventually west and east.
I also think that it is very important to incorporate the airport into such a plan.
I recently traveled to Atlanta and the light rail system connects directly to the airport. So convenient. I paid for ticket, got the right train, and rode all the way across Atlanta to my hotel. The cost was nominal (especially compared to a 30+ min cab ride!) and I felt completely safe. I think a light rail system connected to the airport is helpfor for travelers both going to and from Will Rogers. Think about not having to drop someone off at the airport - just the nearest light rail entrance. For tourists or those coming in for conferences they could hop on and ride to downtown or Bricktown. They would see a lot of OKC on the way, and if properly maintained and beautified, we could really impress our guests.
While I think a stadium is nice (although I much prefer MLB to NFL) however I think when we think about what is best for OKC and the metro area, we need to think about things that directly improve our quality of life. While a stadium is a great idea and probably down the road - light rail, beautification, etc are probably more realistic. I really do like the idea of a weather history muesuem though!