First National Center

[zookeeper]

I'm re-posting this because 1) I think it got missed due the to dreaded page break, and 2) to emphasize we have at least two groups with deep pockets and great experience vying for this beautiful property, and there is absolutely no reason to be discussing demolition:

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It seems the “dream team” of local developers are very much in the picture for gaining control of First National Center.

My understanding is this group includes Mark Beffort, Andy Burnett, and Don Karchmer – and others as well.

There had been talk about them withdrawing but I was told by a reliable source that they came in with a strong, late bid and are one of the potential groups of buyers that were asked to make “final bids” by July 31st.

It may come down to them versus the previously-mentioned Alterra of Philadelphia.

No matter who may come out on top, it's a certainty they will need to work with Cathy O'Connor and the Alliance of Economic Development to obtain various incentives, grants, credits and financing. Cathy very successfully spearheaded a similar effort for the Skirvin Hotel.

The Skirvin was about a $50 million project; this will be 2 to 4 times that amount.

We probably won't know more until early next month.

This "Dream Team" would be an incredible group of developers. I hope you're right about hearing something as soon as next month. I wonder why Alterra is so interested? I looked at their onlin portfolio and everything they have done is in Pennsylvania.

[David]

If the “final bids” deadline is July 31st, what does that mean for the selection announcement? A few days, a few weeks, a few months?

[OklahomaNick]

It could be months after bids are due. This is still very early. Inspection periods on assets like that could be anywhere from 30 to 90 days!
And announcements are never before a property has had a chance to close, because contracts fall apart all the time.

Unless this is a special circumstance..?

[Pete]

They might not make an announcement for a while but our OKCTalk network will likely have more info in a week or two.

[ShadowStrings]

I love "our OKCTalk network."

[Rover]

This "Dream Team" would be an incredible group of developers. I hope you're right about hearing something as soon as next month. I wonder why Alterra is so interested? I looked at their onlin portfolio and everything they have done is in Pennsylvania.

Their web site says they have assets in 15 states.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I love "our OKCTalk network."

Can we get a show featuring Pete on OETA?

Then have like 10 minutes of people reading from Politics thread in funny voices.

[Martin]

Then have like 10 minutes of people reading from Politics thread in funny voices.

this would have been perfect for the cable public access channel we used to have. -M

[zookeeper]

Their web site says they have assets in 15 states.

I guess they're only proud of the ones in Philly.
Alterra Properties » Properties

[OKCRT]

So what exactly is the " Dream Team " going to do? Will this be Condo/apartments for sale/rent? Will it be mostly office space? Will it be the Convention Center Hotel? My vote is for, individual home owner units and office space. Then we build a highrise convention center hotel at another site. We need more info Pete/Steve/Anyone?

[TheTravellers]

It was specifically built to allow for natural light into that otherwise windowless space.

Would love to see that feature returned -- it would make a huge difference.

If it gets glass back and the roof removed, won't they need some seriously thick hail-proof glass? Not sure how that worked there in the past...

[LuccaBrasi]

So what exactly is the " Dream Team " going to do? Will this be Condo/apartments for sale/rent? Will it be mostly office space? Will it be the Convention Center Hotel? My vote is for, individual home owner units and office space. Then we build a highrise convention center hotel at another site. We need more info Pete/Steve/Anyone?

Lots of due diligence and financial metrics to do even for the winning team, but likely headed towards office & rental housing.........Pete has mentioned before it will not be a hotel.

[John]

If it gets glass back and the roof removed, won't they need some seriously thick hail-proof glass? Not sure how that worked there in the past...

The Great Banking Hall has many floors above it; the exterior light wasn't coming from directly above.

I believe the light was fed via external windows surrounding the room.

[Pete]

The Great Banking Hall has many floors above it; the exterior light wasn't coming from directly above.

I believe the light was fed via external windows surrounding the room.

Actually, the space directly above the GBH is open to the sky; the back of the tower is built in a u-shape around it.

If you were to put in clear glass in that skylight, you'd actually see the sky above.

[PhiAlpha]

Lots of due diligence and financial metrics to do even for the winning team, but likely headed towards office & rental housing.........Pete has mentioned before it will not be a hotel.

When did Pete mention that it won't be a hotel?


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[Lazio85]

Actually, the space directly above the GBH is open to the sky; the back of the tower is built in a u-shape around it.

If you were to put in clear glass in that skylight, you'd actually see the sky above.

I wish that were true, but when I was over at the Oklahoma City Geology Society they have windows that overlook that area of the roof. Steel beams and offices exist above the "skylight" that exists in the Great Banking Hall.

[Pete]

When did Pete mention that it won't be a hotel?

I had said that I had heard that most potential buyers were concerned about the huge amount of hotel space in the pipeline and the high cost required for hotel conversion and thus were shying away from that use and towards residential and office.

But at least from my end, my information wasn't that a hotel would definitely not be included. I actually hope that proves to be the case, I just think it may be less likely that previously presumed.

[Pete]

I wish that were true, but when I was over at the Oklahoma City Geology Society they have windows that overlook that area of the roof. Steel beams and offices exist above the "skylight" that exists in the Great Banking Hall.

What you saw were probably the light fixtures built over the skylight.

You can see the floorplate from the county assessor; note the plan in the upper left corner that shows everything above the 2nd level (where the GBH is located) as cutout:

[bluedogok]

If it gets glass back and the roof removed, won't they need some seriously thick hail-proof glass? Not sure how that worked there in the past...

Not that difficult, laminated glazing is readily available. All of the new Federal building has blast resistant laminated glazing.

[AP]

Did Fiserv used to be a tenant here?

[Bellaboo]

Did Fiserv used to be a tenant here?

I think so, and before them it was First data back in the early '80's.

[ChaseDweller]

Here's picture I took today with my phone that shows the light well over the banking floor.

[shawnw]

The Great Banking Hall has many floors above it; the exterior light wasn't coming from directly above.

I believe the light was fed via external windows surrounding the room.

solatubes before they were cool? :-)

[Bob Loblaw]

Pete is right - there is a "courtyard" between the tower and the rest of the FNC that allows natural light into the Great Banking Hall - I think there are actually two layers of glass up there, the one that we see from the GBH and then a sturdier, opaque layer a few feet above that is meant to allow light in while acting a a roof of sorts - keeps hail, rain, whatever from coming straight into the building - I could be wrong on this count but when I officed in the FNC, you could never see directly into the bank through the glassed roof

I know they are showing the building off to interested parties - around 10:30/11 AM today there was a group of folks waiting at the top of the stairs to the GBH and Chuck Ainsworth was bringing someone into the FNC from across the street to meet them - supposedly Mayor Mick has toured the place recently with a group as well

What an absolute shame that this Grand Lady of a building has been allowed to waste away - three of the four elevators that go to the higher floors in the tower are not working, leaving only one working elevator to floors higher than 14 - the escalators to the skybridge across Robinson aren't working - we've all seen the pic of the current state of the former Beacon Club space - such a glorious building allowed to wither away

I get a kick out of the debates here as to what the FNC should be transformed into, at least the tower - I can't see it being transformed into a hotel, there's no room for parking, dropoff/check-in, valet, etc. like you see at normal high-end hotels - think Skirvin, Renaissance or Sheraton and their front door drives and then tell me where one would go for the FNC tower hotel as I can't dream up anywhere feasible - I *can* see it being transformed into some mixed form of housing and office space like across the street in the Ramsey Tower/Globe Building - but to do so will mean gutting the entire building to install basic infrastructure - water, heat, air, internet, gas, electricity, whatever utilities you'd need in everyday life would need updating - the floor plates would need to be rearranged without compromising the structural integrity of the building - there's too many hallways, boiler rooms, telephone closets, janitor closets, etc. on each and every floor that eat up space that could be otherwise turned into useable square footage

I'm hopeful that the building gets the revamping and treatment that it deserves from whatever group takes it over from the current ownership - and I'm hoping that whoever that group is has a passion for the FNC and doesn't just see it as yet another historic property to put a gloss on and flip

Bob Loblaw

[bluedogok]

There are several old office buildings that have been converted into hotels here in Denver and in Dallas and Houston that have very similar site constraints. Most of those hotels do not have a drive-thru, they use the street (parking lane), even most older hotels in urban centers have that same situationThe Magnolia hotel chain is based on that model and those hotels were built by gutting the entire building and building out what they needed. Even the Skirvin does not have the same layout that it did in its prior life, even for an office retrofit you would have to pretty much gut it as well.