Poker Causing Gambling Addiction...

[PUGalicious]

You are operating off old definitions of the words liberal and conservative. Read the post above yours.

Who redefined the terms? You?

Jesus would approve of torturing prisoners of war, especially when they hault the spread of Christianity, and bring evil to the world.

Please cite me ONE verse in the New Testament from Jesus' ministry on earth that would support your assertion.

It certainly flies in the face of this passage in Luke (chapter 6, verses 27-36) in which Jesus commanded:

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

[ChristianConservative]

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

And remember, God and Jesus are one in the same.

[ChristianConservative]

1 Timothy 6:17
Tell those rich in this world's wealth to quit being so full of themselves and so obsessed with money, which is here today and gone tomorrow. Tell them to go after God, who piles on all the riches we could ever manage—to do good, to be rich in helping others, to be extravagantly generous. If they do that, they'll build a treasury that will last, gaining life that is truly life.

[ChristianConservative]

Matthew 18:33-35 (New King James Version)

33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”[a]

[PUGalicious]

Notice it was the master (i.e. God) who was the judge and who dealt out the punishment. You are not God.

On that happy note, I'll jump off this diversion from the original thread topic... feel free, Mr. Conservative, to start your own thread should you care to discuss your prooftexting any further.

[ChristianConservative]

Notice it was the master (i.e. God) who was the judge and who dealt out the punishment. You are not God.

Are we a little sensitive? I simply answered your debate with verses proving my point. Just admit you're wrong and move on.

[PUGalicious]

Sensitive? Not at all. You very handily prooftexted some verses trying to prove your point; unfortunately, you feel short.

I admit it: You're wrong. So, I'll move on.

:boff:

[Midtowner]

You are operating off old definitions of the words liberal and conservative. Read the post above yours.

Jesus would approve of torturing prisoners of war, especially when they hault the spread of Christianity, and bring evil to the world. After all, he told his chosen people to annihilate the infidels in Israel, as they returned from Egypt. He destroyed everyone in the world except Noah during the great flood. In the end, He will destroy non-believers by casting them into the lake of fire. Must I go on?

Please find me the Biblical passage where Jesus talks about torture being okay.

Making references to the vengeful God of the OT is not quite accurate. First, you profess Christianity. Therefore, you must subscribe to Jesus' message (which substantially differs from what we find in the OT).

So find me some NT authority.

[Patrick]

Please find me the Biblical passage where Jesus talks about torture being okay.

Making references to the vengeful God of the OT is not quite accurate. First, you profess Christianity. Therefore, you must subscribe to Jesus' message (which substantially differs from what we find in the OT).

So find me some NT authority.

I think he described torture to you, describing what Revelations describes will happen in the End Times.

[Deni]

HAHAHA. I just have to say this is funny. I am not sure if it's the Babtist talking or people that don't want God to be an angry God? Surely you have to know that God will punish people, OT and NT says so. God is a god of love, but don't you as a parent get mad? How about an American, do you get mad? Come on God gets angry, no matter what part of the bible you read?

[bandnerd]

Maybe so...but as a parent, do you torture your children when they do something they aren't supposed to do? As an American, do you go out torturing people in the name of whomever?

On this site I've been accused of being "immoral" by some members, yet even I know that torture is wrong? Wha?????

[Midtowner]

HAHAHA. I just have to say this is funny. I am not sure if it's the Babtist talking or people that don't want God to be an angry God? Surely you have to know that God will punish people, OT and NT says so. God is a god of love, but don't you as a parent get mad? How about an American, do you get mad? Come on God gets angry, no matter what part of the bible you read?

I don't see how any of that justifies torturing people in the name of national security from a Christian standpoint.

If we can justify violent acts with our religion, are we really that much different from Osama and his thugs?

[PUGalicious]

If we can justify violent acts with our religion, are we really that much different from Osama and his thugs?

Exactly.

[PUGalicious]

A fellow blogger, Anthony at Fides et Veritas, made some worthwhile points on this very issue in a recent post:

The Bible speaks of how we as Christians, nay, we as ordinary human beings should treat each other. The question then becomes: Is our Christian President and leaders following the Biblical commands on the treatment of others, even those that offend or hurt us?

In the Gospel of Saint Matthew we find, “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.” (Matthew 5:38-42)

Our response to those that hurt us, according to Christ, is not to slap them back, not to subject them to water-boarding or other forms of torture but rather to turn the other cheek. Does this mean that we should not fight back against a known enemy, or protect ourselves from possible danger? Of course not. The question that must be answered in all honest to ourselves and others is whether or not we should use the kind of techniques that our enemy uses to punish those who wrong us or to question those we view as our enemy.

I find it morally repugnant that our President professes to be a Christian yet believes that in order to win the war on terror we must stoop to the level of the terrorist. In Saint Paul’s letter to the Romans we find the following: “Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.” (Romans 12:17) This passage does not say that we should only repay evil with evil if they are Muslims, nor does it say that there are certain conditions that make repaying evil with evil permissible. Rather it says that we are to repay no one evil for evil.

And in Romans 12:19-21 we find: “Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” This passage alone denounces torture. We are commanded by Sacred Scripture to treat our enemies with kindness not to torture them. We as a country have held to this philosophy for many centuries now, but today we face the possibility of turning our backs on not only our history but on Scriptural commands as well. (more…)

We, as Christians, are to hold ourselves to a higher standard. And those who want to claim the U.S. to be a “Christian nation” must hold this country to a higher standard — much higher standard — of morality, ethics and standards of conduct. We cannot use the terrorists or other brutal dictatorships as the standard bearer. Our thirst for vengeance cannot overshadow our responsibilities to the God we claim to serve.

[Deni]

wait????????????? DID I SAY TORTURE????????? Let me reread my post? ooops I guess you read more into it than I wrote? How did you do that? <slapping my head>

[ChristianConservative]

I don't see how any of that justifies torturing people in the name of national security from a Christian standpoint.

If we can justify violent acts with our religion, are we really that much different from Osama and his thugs?

The Bible says eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. We're only treating these people with the punishment and torture they were dishing out. I don't feel sorry for them. Go Bush!

[Midtowner]

An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, pretty soon, the whole world is blind and in need of dentures.

Also, the "terrorists" being plucked off of the battlefield have not actually engaged in any overseas terrorism, suicide bombings, etc. for the most part. They are being punished for their intention/conspiracy efforts to do so.

[PUGalicious]

The Bible says eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. We're only treating these people with the punishment and torture they were dishing out. I don't feel sorry for them. Go Bush!

The Old Testament says that, but Jesus gave us new instructions (which you continue to conveniently ignore... just like the Pharisees did, preferring religious legalism and selective prooftexting over God's message of love, grace and mercy that He sent us through Jesus):

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
(Matthew 5:38-48)

Note the red letters. Jesus said these words -- you know, an in Jesus Christ, from whose name you derive Christian which you proudly claim as your username.

[ChristianConservative]

Read Revelations. It discusses a great deal of torture that God will bring forth on humans.

[PUGalicious]

Read Revelations. It discusses a great deal of torture that God will bring forth on humans.

First of all, I've read Revelations; interestingly enough, it's not the only book in the Bible. There are 26 other books in the New Testament and 65 other books in the (protestant) Bible.

Furthermore, your prooftexting of the verses you continue to try to use as justifications only demonstrates that your grasping at straws, trying to mak verses say something they do not in their proper context.

Finally, what you speak of in Revelations is final judgments by a sovereign, ominscient Almighty God, not arbitrary torture at the hands of error-prone humans and an oft-mistaken earthly government. At least with God, we know His will is perfect. The same certainly cannot be said for any earthly institution or its representatives. I won't question God. Everyone else who engages in such behavior is subject to criticism.

Try again.

[raj5]

Gambling and poker both banned in US. Its gonna hurt both poker, and gambling players

Online Casino Play Online Gambling

[MadMonk]

Gambling and poker both banned in US. Its gonna hurt both poker, and gambling players

Are you under the impression that gambling and poker are banned in the United States?

[windowphobe]

We've got torture. It's called "freezing rain."

[StephiOKC]

Is this about gambling? I can say one thing....personal responsibility! Pull religion in if you like, but sorry its just like anything else....its a choice! I gamble, but I am also responsible. Its all about choices PERIOD.
Window you are right, freezing rain is torture! hehe.

[dismayed]

It's so funny, the far left and far right have so much in common with each other it's not even funny, and both hate one another so they would never admit it. Both want to control your lives and tell you what you can and cannot do, it's just that each group has different pet projects where they would like to see this succeed. Generally we're talking about government interference having anything to do with "morals" from the standpoint of stopping the seedier side of life all-together, than the conservatives are for it. If we're talking about allowing the government to interfere with peoples' lives from the standpoint of spreading the "morals" of helping the disadvantaged and things like that, the liberals are for it. This particular subset of conservatism doesn't like to admit it, but if they would take a hard look at themselves they aren't any better than the liberals.

I just want to start up and be a part of the "LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE" party. How can I get that on the ballot?