Streetcar

[Just the facts]

That is incredibly stupid, but whatever. More wires=more things to go wrong. Here in the 21st century, we're still building things that rely on wires to get us around... sigh.

It is actually the other way around. The wire is the most reliable, which is why they are still be used,

[UnFrSaKn]

Great vid. If you want to cut out the streetcar and light rail into a short film, we'd be glad to post it to Facebook to promote what a streetcar looks like gliding by.

[catch22]

Also, how well would a wireless battery system hold up in Oklahoma weather?

There is quite literally a 100 degree temperature change throughout the year. Lowest low and highest high. Along with a continuous battery discharge, and frequent charging. It seems to me to be a harsh environment for the voltage demand that would be placed on the batteries.

[soonerguru]

That is incredibly stupid, but whatever. More wires=more things to go wrong. Here in the 21st century, we're still building things that rely on wires to get us around... sigh.

Head full of bricks? The wired technology is proven, not "more things to go wrong." Get your facts straight.

[Laramie]

Dallas Area Rapid Transit (D.A.R.T.) is the largest light rail operator in the United States, with 85 miles of track with a top speed of 65 miles per hour.

Dallas has the overhead wire rapid transit.

Oklahoma City's street car system will begin with six miles of track.

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[Plutonic Panda]

That is silly. No wires = an untested concept. You seldom want to be the guy to beta test technology, and you definitely don't want to spend 130+ million dollars doing so.

I'm a single person going to school right now living with my father, of course I don't have 130 million lol....

Quite honestly, if I had billions, I'd love to donate that kind of money to help fund things in this city that I would never expect a return on. I'd have to be smart about it, but I'd rather spend money and invest rather than have it sit in a bank account. That isn't to say I don't believe in saving money, but have balance.

I thought there are cities that don't have any wires on their street cars??? I don't have any major beef with the wires and if people here say that's what they want, then fine. It's their, well, all our money, so as long as the majority and planners decide it's the best option, then so be it. It just seems no wires would be the option and to me, is more futuristic and advanced.

[Plutonic Panda]

Head full of bricks? The wired technology is proven, not "more things to go wrong." Get your facts straight.

I use common sense when I say more things can go wrong. Whenever something is exposed, there is more of chance it will be affected by outside elements and factors, how is that "head full of bricks" thinking?

[ljbab728]

I use common sense when I say more things can go wrong. Whenever something is exposed, there is more of chance it will be affected by outside elements and factors, how is that "head full of bricks" thinking?

plupan, the point is that common sense would tell you that a type of system that has been used all over the world in all types of weather conditions would, for now, be a more tested and reliable system.

[Plutonic Panda]

It is actually the other way around. The wire is the most reliable, which is why they are still be used,

Well, it takes bold thinking to venture and test concepts and new technology.

We can use your wonderful glow in the dark roads that you love. There are so many problems with them- people turning their headlights completely off in order to see the lights, the lights already fading and becoming dimmer, water causing the lights to loose their "glow" faster etc..... Now, do I think it was a bad idea? No. I applaud the Netherlands for their efforts and they will likely fix all of the bugs.

Oklahoma used to be an innovative state. I learned on here ODOT was the first to test the cable barrier system; was that a proven technology? No. But it worked, and it is great and used by every other state now. We came out with the first parking meter, something that people said was stupid for the state to use, now look at it.

It takes innovation and leadership, something I still believe in here. Just because other cities have it and it works, doesn't mean we can't try something new. It's only a matter of time before other cities switch to wireless systems and it will happen.

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs...02_Swanson.pdf

I also seems that this technology isn't all that new either. If you guys want wires, fine, but it is not hard to see that you simply like the overhead wires better and have no real points to make for them besides that, which is completely fine. It isn't going to be a big deal either way.

[Plutonic Panda]

plupan, the point is that common sense would tell you that a type of system that has been used all over the world in all types of weather conditions would, for now, be a more tested and reliable system.

see my post below yours. It kind of responds to this...

[ljbab728]

see my post below yours. It kind of responds to this...

That is a totally different argument, plupan. Now you're talking about being innovative instead of being reliable. That was what I was responding to. And actually the cable barrier system was a very proven technology before we started using it. Europe had used that extensively before it was used here.

[Plutonic Panda]

That is a totally different argument, plupan. Now you're talking about being innovative instead of being reliable. That was what I was responding to. And actually the cable barrier system was a very proven technology before we started using it. Europe had used that extensively before it was used here.

I understand Europe has used it, but we were the first in the US. It was to be "tried" here and had to be authorized by the USDOT.

As far as being reliable, my point by that was, the wires are exposed. 9 times out of 10, when something is exposed, it is more vulnerable than that of something that is hidden and protected. That is what I meant as far as reliability issues go. In that particular instance, that is where it is reliable. As far as the technology working, it's a matter of building something that works by electrical induction. I am NOT an electrical engineer, so I don't know how far we are in that, but before something becomes mature, it has to be tested. For every test, you start out small, and eventually you try it large scale. Again, I am NOT an expert on this matter and there are people on this board(people who responded to this thread) who know more than me about this, but I will not accept the "it's not a proven technology" line from anyone, because to me, that signals one thing, potential.

So, I have a few of questions for anyone that would know this:

1. Do they have this technology(wireless streetcars) implemented on a large scale somewhere?

2.If they do, how is it going?

3.What are the problems, if there any?

My points(and I will address each point) against wires are (1) they make more clutter (2) there is more to go wrong (3) the future is going away from wires for pretty much everything, that would include street cars

1. You can show me all the pictures of Seattle and Portland you want to, but the wires are there and you can see them. While it may not be a big deal to some, I notice it and I promise you I'm not the only one.

2. There is more to go wrong: whether it be natural causes(weather mainly) or man-made(trucks that are too high hitting the wires, cars hitting the poles, people purposely causing trouble), it might be rare, but each one of those things will eventually happen, and it is something that can easily be avoided if they were simply placed below the tracks.

3. You can't sit there and tell me 100 years from now, we will still be using wires. I doubt any new street cars that are built 20 years from now will even have them. We are advancing faster than most think.

[LocoAko]

Just saw this from the streetcar's Facebook:

Mayor Mick Cornett and Steering Committee members just approved expansion plans for the OKC Streetcar to Capitol Hill, up Classen to 63rd street, and rapid streetcar to Tinker Air Force Base.
The plans enable the City of OKC and the future Regional Transit Authority to leverage local initiatives pursue Federal matching funds to grow the streetcar system that is about to be under construction.
We will post high quality maps when they become available.

[betts]

So, I have a few of questions for anyone that would know this:

1. Do they have this technology(wireless streetcars) implemented on a large scale somewhere?

2.If they do, how is it going?

3.What are the problems, if there any?

My points(and I will address each point) against wires are (1) they make more clutter (2) there is more to go wrong (3) the future is going away from wires for pretty much everything, that would include street cars

1. You can show me all the pictures of Seattle and Portland you want to, but the wires are there and you can see them. While it may not be a big deal to some, I notice it and I promise you I'm not the only one.

2. There is more to go wrong: whether it be natural causes(weather mainly) or man-made(trucks that are too high hitting the wires, cars hitting the poles, people purposely causing trouble), it might be rare, but each one of those things will eventually happen, and it is something that can easily be avoided if they were simply placed below the tracks.

3. You can't sit there and tell me 100 years from now, we will still be using wires. I doubt any new street cars that are built 20 years from now will even have them. We are advancing faster than most think.

1. Scroll down to page 5. You will notice almost all of the hybrid systems use wires for some of the charging. That is our plan. Over the next 10 years, batteries will become more efficient, most likely, and new technologies will be tested. We can take wires down as the technology improves.

http://www.kimley-horn.com/Projects/...ogy3%20(2).pdf

2. See #1

3. See #1

Innovation is risky and expensive. We have a budget. We have to be good stewards of the taxpayers' money. We don't want a trendy little 1 km. streetcar that runs magically without wires. We want a system that can cover the area we have envisioned, at a price we can afford and with affordable infrastructure. Since we have a couplet system, there will be a single wire everywhere except where the couplet crosses itself. You won't see the bulky wires that cover a street that people are familiar with in San Francisco and Seattle. It will be noticeable if you're looking for it, but otherwise not.

My son is an engineer, and when I told him about the new streetcar technologies he said, "You never want to be the beta tester, especially for hundreds of millions of dollars." The mayor is talking today about massive expansion of the system. By the time that's ready to happen, we will have a lot more information about new technology, and we will have seen the hybrid system we will already have grow increasingly efficient.

[OKCisOK4me]

Just saw this from the streetcar's Facebook:

That's freakin AWESOME!

Sent from my BNTV600 using Tapatalk

[Plutonic Panda]

This is huge!

[David]

Wow, all the way up to 63rd is ambitious. I suppose it's important to have the plans drawn up just in case the federal funds end up being generous.

And for Capital Hill, I wonder where the river is going to be crossed. Walker? Western? If the latter, that's a nice bonus for the Wheeler District.

Interesting that there was zero mention of the Health Science Center or the capital building complex.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[betts]

Of course running the streetcar up to 63rd drops people right into Classen Curve, the Triangle and the Nichols Hills Plaza, which could be a huge draw for tourists and conventioneers, who want to stay downtown but then have very easy access to the shopping and restaurants of that area. Plans like these could also really spark the development of that shopping/restaurant complex. It would also enable people in that area to pop down to Thunder games and downtown events without having to worry about parking. A significant number of season ticket holders to the Thunder, the Symphony, the Ballet, Lyric, etc. live in the Nichols Hills area. And what a way to stimulate resurgence of the Capitol Hill area as well! Sounds like a win-win.

[Dustin]

just saw this from the streetcar's facebook:

Fantastic! I got the chilly willies thinking about it!

[Just the facts]

Going to 63rd doesn't excite me half as much as going to Capitol Hill.

[NWOKCGuy]

Going to 63rd doesn't excite me half as much as going to Capitol Hill.

Going to 63rd excites me because it makes me think eventually the plan will be classen>63rd>may>reno. With what is already included in Phase 1, that would have the streetcar covering the entire part of OKC that I spend any time in.

[bchris02]

The thing is the 63rd corridor is vital and growing as we speak. Capitol Hill has tremendous potential but hasn't taken off yet. Plus, a lot of people work at Chesapeake and the streetcar going to 63rd will allow them to live downtown and commute to work without driving if they want to. I think 63rd is a good choice and makes more economic sense (currently) than going to Capitol Hill. Luckily I don't think its going to have to be one or the other.

[Bullbear]

I saw this on facebook as well. this is great news. going up Classen to 63rd is awesome!. very close to the Plaza and uptown, asian district, Classen curve, nichols hills plaza.. this is a great expansion. Plus means a great deal to developing Capital hill.

[David]

Okay, now that I'm at a computer and double checked the Zeta route, I'm guessing Walker is far more likely for the connection to Capitol Hill.

On the other hand here's a total pie in the sky idea while I'm looking at the maps: go down Walker to 25th or 29th, west over to Western, back up to Sheridan, and east to hook back into the system. That would serve Wiley Post Park, Capitol Hill, Wheeler District, Wheeler Park, and Film Row. It's not quite a couplet route since the up and down would be a full mile separate, and double railing it would give that much more expense, but it's a fun thought experiment.

Edit: Whoops, make that a half mile between Walker and Western, I guessed that incorrectly while looking at Google Maps earlier.

[betts]

Okay, now that I'm at a computer and double checked the Zeta route, I'm guessing Walker is far more likely for the connection to Capitol Hill.

On the other hand here's a total pie in the sky idea while I'm looking at the maps: go down Walker to 25th or 29th, west over to Western, back up to Sheridan, and east to hook back into the system. That would serve Wiley Post Park, Capitol Hill, Wheeler District, Wheeler Park, and Film Row. It's not quite a couplet route since the up and down would be a full mile separate, and double railing it would give that much more expense, but it's a fun thought experiment.

I had the same thought. To save money it could start as a one-way loop and with growth in ridership in the area you could eventually double track it.