Something big coming?

[Bellaboo]

Excellent insight. I think you hit the nail on the head.

You are right about OKC lacking a "finished" district. Having moved here from a higher-tiered city, there isn't anywhere in OKC that truly has a "wow" factor. OKC needs at least one or two districts that have that. Bricktown could get there but there needs to be more infill as well as canal level development. There is currently way too much vacant space facing the canal at all levels. The Paseo, in my opinion, is the next closest thing yet it is still lacking. Midtown could get there but I think its at least 3-5 years away. I think you are right that time is what is really needed.

Have you not been to the Memorial at night ? Charles Barkley was in tears talking about it, 2 years ago.

[Pete]

The streetcar will not only knit together a bunch of the districts through transportation, it will spur more development along it's path and thus create the needed bridges.

The districts are already growing together and the streetcar will be a huge catalyst.

[heyerdahl]

You are right about OKC lacking a "finished" district. Having moved here from a higher-tiered city, there isn't anywhere in OKC that truly has a "wow" factor. OKC needs at least one or two districts that have that. Bricktown could get there but there needs to be more infill as well as canal level development. There is currently way too much vacant space facing the canal at all levels. The Paseo, in my opinion, is the next closest thing yet it is still lacking. Midtown could get there but I think its at least 3-5 years away. I think you are right that time is what is really needed.

How many times are you going to write this exact post

[David]

When did you leave? A lot of your recent comments seem dated. The city is growing and I see more people coming in than leaving. If you get involved in things like Better Block and some of the street festivals, you quickly realize that there is a growing mass of young, creative professionals who not only like living here, but may be doing the most to make positive changes. Seriously, the difference between now and just 3 years ago is noticeable. I think the most interesting thing is the type of people that are coming, coming back, or staying. A lot of the younger people tell me they like it because it's so accessible. One person or a small group of people can make real changes. There is more positive energy in OKC's youth contingent than I have ever seen. Most people these days who talk poorly about the city left awhile ago. Certainly, there's still an image problem and it's hard to get people to come here no matter what, but as long as it's still in Oklahoma, that will always be a problem. But, once they do come here, you're seeing more of the decide to stay awhile and/or comeback. The census numbers suggest this is happening, but if you actually get active in the community, you can see it first hand.

His comments seem dated because he doesn't let anything resembling actual facts inform his opinions. You'd be better served by reading his posts upside down.

[NWOKCGuy]

His comments seem dated because he doesn't let anything resembling actual facts inform his opinions. You'd be better served by reading his posts upside down.

Also, he didn't leave. He currently lives in the suburban fringe.

[hoya]

There's been an enormous change in this city over the last 10 years. I'm not talking about development, I'm talking about the attitudes of the people here. When I was in high school (graduated in '96), I remember everyone complaining about this city. It seemed nobody liked it here or wanted to be here. When I moved back after law school in 2003, everyone asked me "why?" But today there's a great sense of community spirit here. There's a positive vibe in this town that I don't ever remember seeing before. To be sure, there are still cantankerous folks who like to complain all the time and who can't stand the place. But now they're actually being countered by people who are excited to live here and be here.

I am excited for what Oklahoma City is becoming. We have our faults, every city does. And I will criticize the way a lot of things are handled, and I will go on record as saying I think XYZ development should be denied, or changed, and I will complain about tearing down Stage Center and this is why we can't have nice things, etc. But it's because I can see the immense potential that OKC has and I'm very excited about how things are progressing here.

I had dinner with a coworker who grew up in L.A. and went to college in NYC. We went to Midtown. She raved about the Ambassador, talking about how the rooftop bar was "just like you would see in New York" and said how she loved living in Deep Deuce. Once these districts start linking up together, making a real walkable environment from Bricktown to Midtown, it will be incredible. Future stages of the streetcar that link downtown with 23rd street and the Paseo or with Capitol Hill will only improve that.

[Tigerguy]

Geez, reading some of the posts, one would wonder why anybody would choose to live in a place that's not a large coastal city. Maybe they're masochists that love places where there's apparently nowhere to go or nothing to do?

Fact is, as has been said multiple times before, the city has come a long way in a fairly short amount of time. Is everything ideal? No. Is there much work to be done? Absolutely. Does that put everything on a scale from crapulent to disastrous until it is ideal? Certainly not. Improvements are going to take time. Change in mindset is going to take time. Everything's going to take time. There's going to be screw-ups, but what city doesn't screw things up? If we can't properly adjust ourselves to what we have (good and bad) and some of the realities of progress, then a move to somewhere more complete (whatever that is for you) might make sense. I only suggest this: while you're on your way in, don't talk to the people going in the opposite direction. I'd imagine their reasons for moving out to a smaller city are just as legitimate as yours are for moving in to a bigger city.

Also, I recommend that the title of this thread be changed to "What you don't like about OKC, Part II".

[okclee]

So the "Something Big Coming" thread is now taken a life of it's own. It's like the new Mystery Tower rumor title.

[Just the facts]

Having moved here from a higher-tiered city, there isn't anywhere in OKC that truly has a "wow" factor.

One thing all great cities have in common is that there is one must-see street. Where is OKC must-see street? I think the closest OKC has is Sheridan from Joe Carter to Shartel. Sadly, when I first started coming to OKC as a kid the must-see street was South Meridian. It is where everyone went to be seen.

[NWOKCGuy]

Geez, reading some of the posts, one would wonder why anybody would choose to live in a place that's not a large coastal city. Maybe they're masochists that love places where there's apparently nowhere to go or nothing to do?

Fact is, as has been said multiple times before, the city has come a long way in a fairly short amount of time. Is everything ideal? No. Is there much work to be done? Absolutely. Does that put everything on a scale from crapulent to disastrous until it is ideal? Certainly not. Improvements are going to take time. Change in mindset is going to take time. Everything's going to take time. There's going to be screw-ups, but what city doesn't screw things up? If we can't properly adjust ourselves to what we have (good and bad) and some of the realities of progress, then a move to somewhere more complete (whatever that is for you) might make sense. I only suggest this: while you're on your way in, don't talk to the people going in the opposite direction. I'd imagine their reasons for moving out to a smaller city are just as legitimate as yours are for moving in to a bigger city.

Also, I recommend that the title of this thread be changed to "What you don't like about OKC, Part II".

Agreed. And since this isn't tied to a specific building or group of buildings, I really don't think it belongs in the Development section.

[bchris02]

One thing all great cities have in common is that there is one must-see street. Where is OKC must-see street? I think the closest OKC has is Sheridan from Joe Carter to Shartel. Sadly, when I first started coming to OKC as a kid the must-see street was South Meridian. It is where everyone went to be seen.

Broadway through Auto Alley is the closest OKC has to that.

[zookeeper]

There's been an enormous change in this city over the last 10 years. I'm not talking about development, I'm talking about the attitudes of the people here. When I was in high school (graduated in '96), I remember everyone complaining about this city. It seemed nobody liked it here or wanted to be here. When I moved back after law school in 2003, everyone asked me "why?" But today there's a great sense of community spirit here. There's a positive vibe in this town that I don't ever remember seeing before. To be sure, there are still cantankerous folks who like to complain all the time and who can't stand the place. But now they're actually being countered by people who are excited to live here and be here.

I am excited for what Oklahoma City is becoming. We have our faults, every city does. And I will criticize the way a lot of things are handled, and I will go on record as saying I think XYZ development should be denied, or changed, and I will complain about tearing down Stage Center and this is why we can't have nice things, etc. But it's because I can see the immense potential that OKC has and I'm very excited about how things are progressing here.

I had dinner with a coworker who grew up in L.A. and went to college in NYC. We went to Midtown. She raved about the Ambassador, talking about how the rooftop bar was "just like you would see in New York" and said how she loved living in Deep Deuce. Once these districts start linking up together, making a real walkable environment from Bricktown to Midtown, it will be incredible. Future stages of the streetcar that link downtown with 23rd street and the Paseo or with Capitol Hill will only improve that.

There's no "like" button, but I had to say how much I liked this from hoyasooner. Very well said and I feel so much the same way. Thanks hoya!

[Pete]

I've thought about what -- if anything -- is unique about Oklahoma City.

At the same time, I've long worried that the answer to that question is "nothing". That we are merely trying to do the same things other cities have already done (streetcar, urban districts, etc.) and generally done way better.

But I had a bit of an epiphany about a year ago and I have continued to analyze it, wanting to make sure that I was being at least somewhat objective. And I'm pleased to say the revelation has held up to scrutiny.


I believe -- truly believe -- that the thing that is truly unique about OKC is this: The citizens are incredibly enthusiastic and open to not only growth, but tremendous growth.

And I would add the City is unique in that it's infrastructure is very well positioned for explosive expansion.


Both these things are far more unusual than you may think. There are some in central Oklahoma who are worry about increased traffic and the like, but far less than in other cities I've visited.

And very, very few cities ever had the combination of great freeway and road systems already in place, tons of space to build everywhere, a booming economy AND almost everyone in town wanting more, more, more!!


These things are OKC's greatest assets, hands down. I'd say about 95% of the people that live there are incredibly excited and proud of what has happened thus far and at the same time very hungry for far bigger and better things.

[Just the facts]

I believe -- truly believe -- that the thing that is truly unique about OKC is this: The citizens are incredibly enthusiastic and open to not only growth, but tremendous growth.

I have had the same internal conversation Pete. Here in Jax our urban districts are 10X better than anything in OKC but on the 'momentum' front - OKC has a lot more steam behind it and when it passes Jax it is going to leave us in the dust quick, fast, and in a hurray. Jax will be standing around asking, "What the hell was that?"

[Plutonic Panda]

Prove it. Where has any company stated they bypassed OKC because of our highways? Or were you sitting in on their board meetings where they discussed relocation?

Don't believe me, that's fine. The truth is the truth however, and if you want to obstruct city progress, because of your own incompetence, that so be it.

[NWOKCGuy]

double post

[Plutonic Panda]

Over the last several years, Oklahoma has been experiencing positive migration from every single state, and that trend is accelerating.

As recently as five years ago, more people were moving to Texas (and a few other states) than moving to OK from them; but that trend has completely reversed and picking up strong steam in the other direction.


People in the U.S. are very mobile -- they are going to move. But stats show many more are moving to Oklahoma than away from it.

And as OKC is the biggest population center and the place that is growing much faster than anywhere else in the state, I'm sure if you could break down the numbers just for the city they wold show very, very strong moves in one direction.


As mentioned, this trend is accelerating. With the extremely low unemployment rate and very strong growth in jobs, you can bet in five years all these indicators will even be much more favorable.

+1

[bchris02]

I have had the same internal conversation Pete. Here in Jax our urban districts are 10X better than anything in OKC but on the 'momentum' front - OKC has a lot more steam behind it and when it passes Jax it is going to leave us in the dust quick, fast, and in a hurray. Jax will be standing around asking, "What the hell was that?"

Jacksonville is quite often criticized for many of the same things OKC is criticized for. The two cities are pretty similar in population and both considered behind others in their tier. It surprises me they would be that far ahead of OKC. What are some neighborhoods that you would say fall into that category so I can look them up on Streetview?

[NWOKCGuy]

And very, very few cities ever had the combination of great freeway and road systems already in place, tons of space to build everywhere, a booming economy AND almost everyone in town wanting more, more, more!!

Don't let PluPan hear you say this.

[Plutonic Panda]

I agree the roads aren't the best (in terms of actual quality - potholes, interchanges, etc) but 6-lane arterial roads? *cringe* So what, this city can become even less walkable and pedestrian-unfriendly and oriented toward cars? There is zero need for that sort of madness.

Well, I was thinking Penn, Western, Memorial, SW 89th, May, and a few others. Obviously, there are a few portions of those roads that have areas where they should remain 4 lanes so to not discourage walkability, but the traffic is getting horrid on them and they are horrible roads in general. They have resurfaced a couple of them, but they're bland, boring, and ugly. I think just removing the utility lines would do wonders.

May Ave. by NW Expressway is such an awesome area of OKC. I love that area!

[Plutonic Panda]

Don't let PluPan hear you say this.

Sir, I'm very aware that we have an nice established freeway system for a city of our size.

[Plutonic Panda]

Excellent insight. I think you hit the nail on the head.

You are right about OKC lacking a "finished" district. Having moved here from a higher-tiered city, there isn't anywhere in OKC that truly has a "wow" factor. OKC needs at least one or two districts that have that. Bricktown could get there but there needs to be more infill as well as canal level development. There is currently way too much vacant space facing the canal at all levels. The Paseo, in my opinion, is the next closest thing yet it is still lacking. Midtown could get there but I think its at least 3-5 years away. I think you are right that time is what is really needed.

For me, NW Expressway and May area has a wow factor.

The other areas that have a WOW factor for me are:

Bricktown
Downtown
Paseo
NW OKC(the amount of new contraction out there is incredible)

[NWOKCGuy]

Sir, I'm very aware that we have an nice established freeway system for a city of our size.

[Plutonic Panda]

our interchanges though, are a different story....

Perhaps I can be unrealistic at times about what we truly need, but something has to be done with out current interchanges because they are horribly outdated.

[Rover]

Yeah I really meant cooler summers in the mountains, but it is a drier heat in Denver than it usually is here which doesn't feel quite as oppressive when it does get that hot. It also takes longer to get up to those 100 + degree temps and they generally don't last as long.
O
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On the other hand, winters can be harsh and the same dryness causes substantial sinus problems in a cold dry climate.