StarFlyer

[hoya]

Honestly I'd rather see something else in that spot. While I'm sure this would be popular and attract people, I think putting it by the boathouses on the river would be more appropriate . At least part of my feeling (if not much of it) comes from the fairgrounds-type pictures they provided. A nicer design would get more support from me.

That said, I would not be upset if they built this thing here. It might be cool. I'm just having trouble visualizing it.

[David]

If this was a democracy, which it isn't, I'd vote for somewhere in the new Wheeler District. That puts it close enough to downtown to have an impact, plus there's the potential for some nice synergy with the ferris wheel as well as serving an attraction for a new district that could use some early foot traffic draws.

[Pete]

For this to even being close to viable, you have to have a lot of foot traffic.

For that reason, this wouldn't even be close to viable in the Boathouse or Wheeler District or really anywhere else other than Bricktown.


So, it's either Bricktown or nowhere.

[Just the facts]

For this to even being close to viable, you have to have a lot of foot traffic.

For that reason, this wouldn't even be close to viable in the Boathouse or Wheeler District or really anywhere else other than Bricktown.

So, it's either Bricktown or nowhere.

My guess is that the vast majority of people who ride this (or just go to the observation deck) will do so at night. No one is going to go to the Boathouse District after dark - walking, biking, car or otherwise.

[hoya]

My preference would be somewhere in Lower Bricktown then.

[shavethewhales]

^That's what I'm hoping for, but I haven't even looked to see if there's any space that isn't right up against apartments or an office. They could take out some parking for it perhaps. It's not hard to see why he picked that location, even if it would be controversial to put it smack dab in the middle of everything.

Pete's comments on foot traffic are spot on. It just won't work anywhere else right now. If you put it down on the river where people say it "belongs" then they would need to add more attractions or something to generate the traffic necessary to make it worth the $2.5+ million.

[Just the facts]

My preference would be somewhere in Lower Bricktown then.

The thing is, this attraction will generate and benefit from a lot of foot traffic. Do we want all that foot traffic being generated on the south part of the canal where there is no other businesses to take advantage of it?

[Pete]

The whole point of this -- as stated by the man who is willing to put up the millions -- was to bring more things to do in Bricktown and fill in an empty hole.

Everyone complains about the lack of things to do in Bricktown other than eating and drinking and then someone proposes something big and bold and people complain about it not fitting??

What is the downside here? I just don't see it. And I see tremendous benefit.

[Just the facts]

I agree Pete. Build a nice brick 2,000 sq foot buildings at the corner - which extends down to the canal level where the line can queue and souvenirs can be sold, have the boarding area in the center of the buildings so it can't be seen from the sidewalk, and then have the metal structure (maybe even painted Bricktown Green) rise from the top. If it does include an observation tower a pair of glass elevators going up the middle would even be cooler - or better yet, just have the glass elevators on top of ride itself so that the 'swingers' and elevator rider go up and down together. While the swings are making their revolutions at the top people can be loading and unloading from the elevators, at the bottom the loading and unloading of the swings and elevators would also occur at the same time.

[Pete]

The issue -- that seems to be eluding most -- is that people are drawn to Bricktown and the canal area, get something to eat and then walk around looking for something to do.

It is the *one* place in OKC where there is a healthy and steady amount of foot traffic year-round; tons of people milling around.

Everyone complains about lack of retail but that can't be forced; it will follow only when the district is more fully realized.


If there are concerns about the design or how it interacts with the street, that is easily addressed. But for the life of me I can't understand why people would see this as a negative.

There are a tons of cities that have Ferris wheels and carousels and observation towers and amusement rides in their urban core.

[Of Sound Mind]

i agree pete. Build a nice brick 2,000 sq foot buildings at the corner - which extends down to the canal level where the line can queue and souvenirs can be sold, have the boarding area in the center of the buildings so it can't be seen from the sidewalk, and then have the metal structure (maybe even painted bricktown green) rise from the top. If it does include an observation tower a pair of glass elevators going up the middle would even be cooler - or better yet, just have the glass elevators on top of ride itself so that the 'swingers' and elevator rider go up and down together. While the swings are making their revolutions at the top people can be loading and unloading from the elevators, at the bottom the loading and unloading of the swings and elevators would also occur at the same time.

like!

the issue -- that seem to be eluding most -- is that people are drawn to bricktown and the canal area, get something to eat and then walk around looking for something to do.

It is the *one* place in okc where there is a healthy and steady amount of foot traffic year-round; tons of people milling around.

Everyone complains about lack of retail but that can't be forced; it will follow only when the district is more fully realized.


If there are concerns about the design or how it interacts with the street, that is easily addressed. But for the life of me i can't understand why people would see this as a negative.

There are a tons of cities that have ferris wheels and carousels and observation towers and amusement rides in their urban core.

bingo!

[bchris02]

The issue -- that seems to be eluding most -- is that people are drawn to Bricktown and the canal area, get something to eat and then walk around looking for something to do.

It is the *one* place in OKC where there is a healthy and steady amount of foot traffic year-round; tons of people milling around.

Everyone complains about lack of retail but that can't be forced; it will follow only when the district is more fully realized.


If there are concerns about the design or how it interacts with the street, that is easily addressed. But for the life of me I can't understand why people would see this as a negative.

There are a tons of cities that have Ferris wheels and carousels and observation towers and amusement rides in their urban core.

Like!

[bchris02]

My guess is that the vast majority of people who ride this (or just go to the observation deck) will do so at night. No one is going to go to the Boathouse District after dark - walking, biking, car or otherwise.

That would be amazing, to be able to ride this at night overlooking the city lights and the skyline. I absolutely can't believe the shortsightedness and lack of vision of everyone opposing this. So what if other cities don't have one in their core. They have ferris wheels and other attractions that contribute to the urbanity, not detract from it.

[Just the facts]

That would be amazing, to be able to ride this at night overlooking the city lights and the skyline. I absolutely can't believe the shortsightedness and lack of vision of everyone opposing this. So what if other cities don't have one in their core. They have ferris wheels and other attractions that contribute to the urbanity, not detract from it.

Back when a Ferris Wheel was first conceived for OKC only London had one. OKC was actually at the forefront of the trend. Then the one in OKC got delayed/canceled and now every city worth their salt has one or is building one and all of them dwarf anything be proposed in OKC. The Santa Monica Ferris Wheel is like a kiddy ride compared to the wheels in Seattle, Paris, Singapore, Las Vegas, London, Atlanta, etc.... so here we are once again at the head of the line with an idea and civic leaders want to wuss out. It actually ticks me off. If there is one thing I don't like - it is that it is only 200' tall.

[Pete]

This could also be easily added to the LED synchronized lights already installed at Devon Tower, the MG Crystal Bridge, Skydance Bridge and Chesapeake Arena.

Imagine how cool that would be at night!


I think we are getting ready to piss away a great opportunity here.

[jccouger]

Pete you convinced me. I'm on board now. One of The strengths of Bricktown is its diversification, and this will only add to that. I think the biggest reason for the disapproval from the board is there is no renderings for our specific flyer. All the examples they showed really leave a bad taste in your mouth when trying to envision what it would look like & how it would fit in. With the right color scheme & incorporated materials I think it would work well.

[Rover]

It seems our leaders can't figure out how to create/allow diversity and interest, just uniformity...and they aren't even great at that.

[Pete]

They could easily include a sign on the top that said "Welcome to Bricktown" or something similar.

All types of things that could be done and this would serve as a beacon to draw in people from all over.

[bchris02]

Pete you convinced me. I'm on board now. One of The strengths of Bricktown is its diversification, and this will only add to that. I think the biggest reason for the disapproval from the board is there is no renderings for our specific flyer. All the examples they showed really leave a bad taste in your mouth when trying to envision what it would look like & how it would fit in. With the right color scheme & incorporated materials I think it would work well.

Is there a possibility they will resubmit the request with a rendering of this specific flyer? I also agree that a specific rendering would go a lot farther than what was shown, which really don't fit.

[jn1780]

Would the city have an issue with the ride extending out over Reno and Mickey Mantel? Not that it matters now since the Bricktown Design Committee has unofficially axed idea.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I have no problem with this type of activity in Bricktown. Other than eating and drinking, (and riding the water taxis, or course) the perception is that there really isn't much to do. This would be a valuable addition to the district. Those of you who know me know I’m all for family-oriented entertainment in urban districts.

My overarching concern is the aesthetics of the project. My preference would be for this project to be in Bricktown, but maybe located on the interior of a block so that the ground-level is screened by buildings. This is absolutely the most prime corner in Bricktown and any development proposed for this site should receive careful scrutiny.

I agree Pete. Build a nice brick 2,000 sq foot buildings at the corner - which extends down to the canal level where the line can queue and souvenirs can be sold, have the boarding area in the center of the buildings so it can't be seen from the sidewalk, and then have the metal structure (maybe even painted Bricktown Green) rise from the top. If it does include an observation tower a pair of glass elevators going up the middle would even be cooler - or better yet, just have the glass elevators on top of ride itself so that the 'swingers' and elevator rider go up and down together. While the swings are making their revolutions at the top people can be loading and unloading from the elevators, at the bottom the loading and unloading of the swings and elevators would also occur at the same time.

IF it was done this way I would absolutely get behind this. That would be fantastic, however not likely. My fear is that the end result would be an amusement park ride on a concrete pad surrounded by a fence. If we got lucky, it would be a brick wall. While I love the idea of this ride in Bricktown, I don’t love the idea of it sitting in a glorified dumpster enclosure on a prime piece of property. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Mr. Arthur’s t-shirt comment causes me some concern regarding the quality of this project. It is important that long-term development on sites like this be imbued with sense of permanence. While the Starflyer is very much a permanent structure, it gives off a carnival-like vibe that implies a certain transience. Therefore, it is critical that the ground level of this project communicates a long-term commitment to its site much like JTF has proposed. It wouldn't be hard to do this "right" in an urban design sense, but as we've seen time and again, there isn't much of a will to do so.

I do think the BUD was out-of-line in suggesting they would deny the development altogether solely based on use. They should have reminded the project developer of the design requirements necessary in Bricktown then waited to see what he would propose without prejudging the project.

[David]

^ That right there is my concern entirely. If this ends up looking like just another carnival ride, then no thanks. Built like Kerry is describing? Then hell yeah.

[hoya]

I have no problem with this type of activity in Bricktown. Other than eating and drinking, (and riding the water taxis, or course) the perception is that there really isn't much to do. This would be a valuable addition to the district. Those of you who know me know I’m all for family-oriented entertainment in urban districts.

My overarching concern is the aesthetics of the project. My preference would be for this project to be in Bricktown, but maybe located on the interior of a block so that the ground-level is screened by buildings. This is absolutely the most prime corner in Bricktown and any development proposed for this site should receive careful scrutiny.



IF it was done this way I would absolutely get behind this. That would be fantastic, however not likely. My fear is that the end result would be an amusement park ride on a concrete pad surrounded by a fence. If we got lucky, it would be a brick wall. While I love the idea of this ride in Bricktown, I don’t love the idea of it sitting in a glorified dumpster enclosure on a prime piece of property. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but Mr. Arthur’s t-shirt comment causes me some concern regarding the quality of this project. It is important that long-term development on sites like this be imbued with sense of permanence. While the Starflyer is very much a permanent structure, it gives off a carnival-like vibe that implies a certain transience. Therefore, it is critical that the ground level of this project communicates a long-term commitment to its site much like JTF has proposed. It wouldn't be hard to do this "right" in an urban design sense, but as we've seen time and again, there isn't much of a will to do so.

I do think the BUD was out-of-line in suggesting they would deny the development altogether solely based on use. They should have reminded the project developer of the design requirements necessary in Bricktown then waited to see what he would propose without prejudging the project.

You said it better than I could have.

[Pete]

Okay, so it comes down to an issue of design, which is exactly the function of the Bricktown Design Review Committee.

This is a unique challenge but it seems to me the proper course of action would be for the committee to work with the proprietor to come up with possible solutions.

It is NOT their job to pass judgement on what a property is to be used for (this is addressed through zoning and other ordinances) no more than it is the job of the Planning Commission to impose restricted hours on Guyutes on some completely arbitrary basis.


These committees need to be reminded they are there to ASSIST not serve as some sort of policy-making body that looks for new ways to say "no". Their charter should be to find a "yes" that suits everyone involved.

OKC is trying very hard to move forward at an ever increasing pace and we have far too many bottlenecks and committees overstepping their bounds. We need to take care of these issues and soon.

[WaywardMemphian]

I'm an out of towner, this appeals to me and my family of 4. I have gone to several ballgames at Bricktown and can see why they would want to get behind this. It's a trend in minor league right now to add rides, slash pads, whifflee ball fields and playground do to appeal to the entire family. Heck, Deist has a ferris wheel and carousel in Comerica.

If the structure was housed in a brick building like mentioned before it would help add to the attractiveness of the thing. Add a little eatery that served shaved Ice and such with a second level outdoor table area and some other small things and we are really looking at something nice.

The designed doesn't have to be carnival like at all. This pic of one in Europe has a very nice top and muted daytime color