StarFlyer

[Plutonic Panda]

Bricktown Design Committee Looks At Plans For The 'Bricktown Fly - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

[bchris02]

You know, honestly, the more I think of it, the more I like it. It could be great, we'll just have to see the final designs. Knowing Oklahoma, since it's a unique, bold and daring idea, it probably won't happen. Different and unique things generally don't go far here it seems. The cool things we do have, get torn down for a measly office building.

Truth. I almost posted this earlier but didn't. Anything cool and unique doesn't seem to fly here. Everything has to be a watered down, crappier version of something in another city.

[ljbab728]

From Steve,

Bricktown Flyer may already be grounded | News OK

Petroleum landman Brandon Arthur may end up looking for a new site for his proposed 220-foot “Star Flyer” after being told by the Bricktown Urban Design Committee the amusement ride is a bad fit for the historic warehouse district.

“I want to continue pursuing this site,” Arthur said, “but I am open to looking at other sites as well.”

[Plutonic Panda]

The location is great. Both in terms of the fact that a lot of people will very easily see it but it will give riders a great view.
It helps bring more people to Bricktown where they will spend their money.
It isn't at the fairgrounds -- ya!
It will actually be one of those neat things to look at and see if you live in Deep Deuce.
Nice extension of other things to at the Boathouse District to include the RIVERSPORT activities and the future whitewater rapids facility.
Which makes me ponder if something like a Ferris Wheel should actually go somewhere in between. Should we use the Canal as an extension of what's happening at the Boathouse District? IF this is really successful, I'd be inclined to say yes. Maybe we've got this all wrong and a Ferris Wheel needs to go in Lower Bricktown (perhaps near the new Landing).
I could definitely see more retail being attracted in Bricktown if more expendable income was seen dangling from the sky.
Of course, this could be operated by someone other than Urbanized and it could reflect poorly on Bricktown if it just looks shoddy.

Great summary here!

[Dustin]

The location is great. Both in terms of the fact that a lot of people will very easily see it but it will give riders a great view.
It helps bring more people to Bricktown where they will spend their money.
It isn't at the fairgrounds -- ya!
It will actually be one of those neat things to look at and see if you live in Deep Deuce.
Nice extension of other things to at the Boathouse District to include the RIVERSPORT activities and the future whitewater rapids facility.
Which makes me ponder if something like a Ferris Wheel should actually go somewhere in between. Should we use the Canal as an extension of what's happening at the Boathouse District? IF this is really successful, I'd be inclined to say yes. Maybe we've got this all wrong and a Ferris Wheel needs to go in Lower Bricktown (perhaps near the new Landing).
I could definitely see more retail being attracted in Bricktown if more expendable income was seen dangling from the sky.
Of course, this could be operated by someone other than Urbanized and it could reflect poorly on Bricktown if it just looks shoddy.

But it belongs there! Bricktown is an entertainment district, not a carnival.

[Pete]

^

The London Eye was extremely controversial when first proposed and has turned out to be a smash hit.

Rather than deny this, I think they committee should have given specific feedback on how to make it work in the district.

[Urbanized]

Personally, I don't think it is at all within the committee's purview to decide winners or losers, or what TYPE of business should go into Bricktown. They would be on very solid ground to deny based on height limitations in the ordinance, and that would be fair. But saying it's "not appropriate" is an overreach. Will they next deny a Chinese restaurant because that particular fare is "not appropriate?"

I'm not saying this as an advocate or an opponent of the Starflyer. I don't really have an opinion on it. I just think it is a slippery slope when a DESIGN REVIEW board starts choosing the types of businesses that land in a district. They are there to weigh the merits of the submitted design vs written ordinance; that's it.

FWIW, I met the developer last night at the Wheeler Park design charette, and he seemed like a very sharp, well-intentioned guy. He doesn't seem to have completely given up on Bricktown, but also seems to be open to other ideas.

[Just the facts]

Personally, I don't think it is at all within the committee's purview to decide winners or losers, or what TYPE of business should go into Bricktown. They would be on very solid ground to deny based on height limitations in the ordinance, and that would be fair. But saying it's "not appropriate" is an overreach. Will they next deny a Chinese restaurant because that particular fare is "not appropriate?"

I'm not saying this as an advocate or an opponent of the Starflyer. I don't really have an opinion on it. I just think it is a slippery slope when a DESIGN REVIEW board starts choosing the types of businesses that land in a district. They are there to weigh the merits of the submitted design vs written ordinance; that's it.

They will deny it if they try to serve the food out of a truck.

One of the biggest differences between suburban and urban development is that urban development doesn't really regulate land-use. That is left up to the property owner to decide. As Urbanized said, the design review should focus on protecting and enhancing the public realm by ensuring developments adhere to the design standards.

[Pete]

It sounds like his whole motivation was to bring something new and exciting to Bricktown, and almost everyone will agree that is needed.

So, to ask him to move this project completely misses the point.

The design review committee, the Bricktown merchant's association and Downtown Inc should all be working with him to find a good compromise and move this or a similar idea forward.


Here you have a local businessman wanting to invest millions to improve a completely vacant lot in our one entertainment district, and all anyone seems to be doing is criticizing.

[Just the facts]

“I do think the idea is novel,” said Committee Member Sandino Thompson. “Seeing energy behind things like this, I’m encouraged. But this site seems pretty tight. Thinking about the precedent on why we might vary from what the design criteria is, you’d have to make a strong case for what would be a steel structure in the middle of Bricktown.”

Has Sandino ever even been to Bricktown? There is steel all over the place. The whole canal is lined with it. Also, how much taller would this be than the lights at the ballpark?

[Pete]

I would like to see more steel and glass than the plain brick and fake stucco boxes this committee keeps approving: Hampton Inn, Hilton Garden Inn, SpringHill Suites, Staybridge Suites, Brickopolis... All of these are the most boring and dull designs imaginable.

Even Chesapeake realized you couldn't merely have 50 square brick buildings and thus tastefully incorporated modern and clean designs that complimented the brick structures.

The historical structures are one thing, but new construction needs some modern elements, not all these plain brick/EIFS boxes.

[SoonerDave]

But it belongs there! Bricktown is an entertainment district, not a carnival.

That's your opinion. I think it is a *perfect* fit for Bricktown. Not the time to turn it into some sort of elitist thing where only the "right" kinds of entertainment are considered "worthy."

[SoonerDave]

The BT Design Review Committee basically said they would vote against if formally submitted for approval.

I can understand that, but I do think it's a lost opportunity. Guess we'll just continue to stare at that vacant lot rather than have a $2.5 million investment.

I can't imagine he'll take his idea elsewhere; the whole genesis of the idea was to bring something new to Bricktown, not be an amusement ride operator.

Yeah, I really am starting to fear what seems to be an emerging elitism, almost snobbery about what Bricktown can and should be. What a shame.

[Pete]

Bricktown already has or soon will have:

• Canal boat ride
• Baseball stadium (used for other events as well)
• Bowling Alley
• Movie Theater
• Laser Tag
• Arcade
• Horse drawn carriages
• Pedal bike bar
• Seasonal attractions like a haunted house and snow tubing
• Concert venue
• 80,000 SF sporting goods store

And this proposed new addition would be right in the middle of all these things AND help them.

I simply don't understand why people think the concept wouldn't fit.

If there are design concerns, then those can certainly be addressed.

[Bullbear]

i would like to see more steel and glass than the plain brick and fake stucco boxes this committee keeps approving: Hampton inn, hilton garden inn, springhill suites, staybridge suites, brickopolis... All of these are the most boring and dull designs imaginable.

Even chesapeake realized you couldn't merely have 50 square brick buildings and thus tastefully incorporated modern and clean designs that complimented the brick structures.

The historical structures are one thing, but new construction needs some modern elements, not all these plain brick/eifs boxes.

this!..

[bombermwc]

Well how would we all feel if it wasn't an exposed steel structure? What if it was altered to be something more like the Tower of the Americas? <- fill in oh so many observation towers. Instead of making it carnival type ride, what if it were a true observation desk building. Would you be more/less likely to support that? And would the location be acceptable for that type of project? Now keep in mind that just because it's an observation tower, doesn't mean it HAS to be CN Tower tall. You can still get a good view here with being only as tall as the one at the fair gounds or something. The site sort of dictates how tall the thing can be anyway. You aren't going to build a CN tower on a plot that supports a 50 car lot.

Bullbear - it's because there is a design that's been determined for the upper canal, which is brick. Go to lower canal and it's a free-for-all (mostly). But i think for the district, we want that brick face to be maintained. That's how you create a district otherwise you end up with cheap developers putting all stucco suburban bullcrap in there (centennial) and call a pig a swan.

[Pete]

Let's take a look at the most recent new construction projects approved by the Bricktown Design Review Committee.

Well-executed steel and glass structures would be highly preferred to just about any of these (Steelyard at the bottom is the only positive example IMO):

[Just the facts]

Let's take a look at the most recent new construction projects approved by the Bricktown Design Review Committee.

Well... at least they are consistent.

[Bullbear]

Bullbear - it's because there is a design that's been determined for the upper canal, which is brick. Go to lower canal and it's a free-for-all (mostly). But i think for the district, we want that brick face to be maintained. That's how you create a district otherwise you end up with cheap developers putting all stucco suburban bullcrap in there (centennial) and call a pig a swan.

As Pete very well showed with the examples.. well executed steel and glass can compliment the historic structures more than those he showed do.. IF they were requiring all new buildings to look like they had been existing wharehouses ( which is nearly impossible ) then its adding to the district.. Nobody said it should be a free for all like lower bricktown but frankly there are options that could be considered that look better than what they have approved. I was pretty on the fence about the starflyer thing but I can see it could be a great asset to the area. something new and different. and I think it would look better as a steel structure than if it were a brick observation deck as that would look heavy and odd quite frankly.

[bchris02]

Bullbear - it's because there is a design that's been determined for the upper canal, which is brick. Go to lower canal and it's a free-for-all (mostly). But i think for the district, we want that brick face to be maintained. That's how you create a district otherwise you end up with cheap developers putting all stucco suburban bullcrap in there (centennial) and call a pig a swan.

Completely agree. Strict codes are a necessary evil for Bricktown because of the way developers here operate. Without them, everything would be built completely suburban.

[OKCisOK4me]

Bricktown Flyer may already be grounded | News OK

His only mistake is his description of Redpin, the ballpark, Brickopolis, etc. They're there for entertainment. It's an entertainment district, not an amusement district, which is where something like this belongs. I wish the guy my best but nobody will be buying tickets for this thing at a Bricktown kiosk.

Also, this thing is solid steel how many feet below ground. I just can't see that tiny space being big enough. They'd have to close the canal and drain it just for base construction to proceed.

[shavethewhales]

They're there for entertainment. It's an entertainment district, not an amusement district,

Lol, what? Why are you splitting hairs here? Why not both? Go back to the 1920's through the 50's and you would see many little entertainment districts that were littered here and there with stand-alone amusement rides. The rise of dedicated amusement parks has spoiled people's perception of various kinds amusements. Anything that resembles a ride must now be kept in dedicated parks, where they "belong" and you are essentially forced to stay all day. There are definitely more and more places breaking this rule though. Malls, public parks, coastal areas, and even casinos are looking at adding a couple of amusement rides to attract and entertain people. There's this odd perception around rides that makes people uptight. I guess it's the noise and kids, but if a district is going to be anything more than a bunch of restaurants and bars then you have to branch out a little.

And for the record, I would definitely line up to ride this thing if it existed. It would bring me back to Bricktown more often than the odd weekend I decide to stop in and get something to eat.

[OKCisOK4me]

Lol, what? Why are you splitting hairs here? Why not both? Go back to the 1920's through the 50's and you would see many little entertainment districts that were littered here and there with stand-alone amusement rides. The rise of dedicated amusement parks has spoiled people's perception of various kinds amusements. Anything that resembles a ride must now be kept in dedicated parks, where they "belong" and you are essentially forced to stay all day. There are definitely more and more places breaking this rule though. Malls, public parks, coastal areas, and even casinos are looking at adding a couple of amusement rides to attract and entertain people. There's this odd perception around rides that makes people uptight. I guess it's the noise and kids, but if a district is going to be anything more than a bunch of restaurants and bars then you have to branch out a little.

And for the record, I would definitely line up to ride this thing if it existed. It would bring me back to Bricktown more often than the odd weekend I decide to stop in and get something to eat.

I wouldn't call it "splitting hairs" lol.

It's JUST not the place for it. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I won't be purchasing a ticket one way or another but you enjoy your ride ;-)

[UnFrSaKn]

Kelly's 2 Cents

http://www.news9.com/clip/10350579/m...ainment-in-okc

[OKCRT]

People will flock from all over the area to ride this star flyer. This would be good for all businesess in Bricktown IMO. I doubt that many visitors will come down and ride the star flyer and leave without doing other things like the canal trip,go to one of the restaurants,take in a movie ect ect. This would only help bring more people to the area and that would help other businesess. Thumbs up!