Cabela's

[Just the facts]

Here is another thing I can't figure out. When OKC made the 19 year deal with Bass Pro one of the stipulations was that Bass Pro could not open another store within 75 miles of OKC. The theory being that if they did it would steal business from the OKC store and they city wanted to protect its investment. Then the city goes 'stupid' on us and offer incentives to a competing sporting goods store before the Bass Pro deal is up. Maybe Bass Pro should have include a clause that the city couldn't offer incentives to competitors either.

[zookeeper]

Has anybody posted this yet from today's Oklahoman? Oklahoma City Councilman calls Cabela's incentives deal 'extortion' | News OK

I think Ed would have been a horrible mayor, but here he raises legitimate issues on the council that would otherwise never be discussed.

“It is sizable,” Councilman Ed Shadid said Tuesday before casting the lone vote against negotiating the agreement. “It’s about 20 years of our social services budget. It is far in excess of what we’re trying to put together for bus service and police officers.”

[bchris02]

Here is another thing I can't figure out. When OKC made the 19 year deal with Bass Pro one of the stipulations was that Bass Pro could not open another store within 75 miles of OKC. The theory being that if they did it would steal business from the OKC store and they city wanted to protect its investment. Then the city goes 'stupid' on us and offer incentives to a competing sporting goods store before the Bass Pro deal is up. Maybe Bass Pro should have include a clause that the city couldn't offer incentives to competitors either.

I think the Bass Pro deal was a mistake from the beginning. My guess is it was intended as a way to get people downtown who wouldn't otherwise go there. It wasn't only to get Bass Pro into the market.

[Just the facts]

I think the Bass Pro deal was a mistake from the beginning. My guess is it was intended as a way to get people downtown who wouldn't otherwise go there. It wasn't only to get Bass Pro into the market.

And then we shot ourselves in the foot by not only allowing sprawl, but by subsidizing it - AND THEN by incentivizing it. Some people are slow to learn and it seems others never learn. We should have told Cabela, if they want the $3.5 million they should have to build within a one mile radius of the MBG and preferably in the parking lot at Bass Pro (with a new parking garage nearby). How cool would a Sporting Goods District have been?

They could have recreated a wilderness area in the center bounded by Bass Pro, Cabela, Gander Mountain, and Dicks'. Now that would be worth driving 200 miles to go to. They could have done all the raft/kayak/canoe sales over at the whitewater facility (or built their own shared space along the canal).

[zookeeper]

Kerry, Any thoughts on post #101?

[Just the facts]

Kerry, Any thoughts on post #101?

I think I have like 10 comments at the bottom of that article. Shadid seems to be the guy that I hate to love. I agree he would have been a bad choice for Mayor but being on the council is a plus for the City. I just wish the people on the Council were more consistent with their beliefs and voting patterns (Mayor Cornett - that comment is directed right at you). You can't be for fiscal discipline AND vote for this package. If they choose Edmond over OKC then so be it. Let Edmond do the bribing and building of unsustainable sprawl.

[zookeeper]

I think I have like 10 comments at the bottom of that article.

Ha! Sorry. I NEVER read NewsOK comments. I guess I'll have to go back in this case! Thanks...

[Spartan]

Ed is not wrong.

His perspective may need to be blended with modern economic development, but I can't get over the genre and location of where these retail incentives are going. It's all either on the far fringe or for sporting goods or both.

I love how we talked ourselves out of such incentives for legitimate downtown retail bc no self respecting urbanist could live with that ethically. So those incentives just go elsewhere, rather than not happen.

If we are an open checkbook for any sporting goods business that wants to open up shop then we need to talk about a downtown department store. Let's go all in on corporate welfare and at least get something respectable out of it. My god.

[Just the facts]

Spartan, that is why I think we need to open these incentives up to the bidding process. Why do we wait until the recipient starts making demands? That's not how the Golden Rule works.

BTW - the Golden Rule is - the one with the gold makes the rules.

[Zuplar]

And then we shot ourselves in the foot by not only allowing sprawl, but by subsidizing it - AND THEN by incentivizing it. Some people are slow to learn and it seems others never learn. We should have told Cabela, if they want the $3.5 million they should have to build within a one mile radius of the MBG and preferably in the parking lot at Bass Pro (with a new parking garage nearby). How cool would a Sporting Goods District have been?

They could have recreated a wilderness area in the center bounded by Bass Pro, Cabela, Gander Mountain, and Dicks'. Now that would be worth driving 200 miles to go to. They could have done all the raft/kayak/canoe sales over at the whitewater facility (or built their own shared space along the canal).

I 100% agree. That would have been worth an incentive.

[Just the facts]

I 100% agree. That would have been worth an incentive.

Yep - there is just a complete lack of vision at the top of the decision making ladder. We're going fast but we aren't getting anywhere.

[GaryOKC6]

Cabela's is not just any sporting goods store though. I think that OKC wanted to make sure that it is built inside the city limits. The sales tax revenue will be high on this one and it will spur other development. Was Cabela's going to come here without the incentives? Sure but they did not have to build it inside the city limits. All Cabela's has to do is start looking at sites in Edmond and we are willing to deal.

[zookeeper]

Kerry, you made some good comments at NewsOK. You did say one thing that I don't get. You said, "We right-wingers..." I don't think you in any way really qualify as a right-winger. Not a left-winger either, but maybe a no-winger and you think for yourself. That way, like me, no party will have you!

[GaryOKC6]

I think that the deal with Bass Pro was good for OKC. It came in well under the 17 million dollar budget. The City still owns the lad and facility while Bass Pro leases it. Bass Pro will pay for the building and we still own everything. Bas Pro also brings in sales tax revenue on about a million dollars a month in sales. But more importantly, in 2003 Bricktown was still not really thriving and we needed an anchor there.

[Plutonic Panda]

Debate Continues Over Tax Incentive Packages Offered To Business - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

[mugofbeer]

Seems I've read that Bass Pro has far more than paid for the incentives OKC provided them. BChris - yes, the incentives were definitely todraw people to stay and sop in the new Bricktown and canal. If the city did get Bass Pro to agree to a milage clause, it was a smart move. At that time, Bass Pro was a place people drove to and stayed the night. No more. Bass Pro incentive/investment has paid off nicely. JTF and I will simply disagree that tax incentives are simply investments and I'm fine with investments if made smartly. Time will tell if the Cabellas investment pays off.

[Just the facts]

So lets just change the incentive program to one that is more fair and consistent. Instead of waiting to be asked for a bribe, just put the incentive out for an RFP. We are giving $3.5 million to Cabela, but are we getting the best store for our money? What if Gander Mountain would be willing to build a 100,000 sq foot store for the same $3.5 million? What if Dick's would build the same size store but do it downtown for $3.5 million in incentives? Doesn't the City owe it to the taxpayers to see what these other companies can offer us? For all we know we could be passing up on a chance to land a Schuster store.

http://www.sport-schuster.de/

[Pete]

So lets just change the incentive program to one that is more fair and consistent. Instead of waiting to be asked for a bribe, just put the incentive out for an RFP. We are giving $3.5 million to Cabela, but are we getting the best store for our money? What if Gander Mountain would be willing to build a 100,000 sq foot store for the same $3.5 million? What if Dick's would build the same size store but do it downtown for $3.5 million in incentives?

To be fair, the City employs full-time employees to directly recruit national retailers. Their sole job is to market OKC to these companies and entice them to open here.

All these retailers are aware that most cities offer incentives and certainly would be aware that OKC has done so in the past.

So effectively, they do have RFP's out and probably make broad reference to possible incentives when connecting with targeted retail businesses.

Also, even when the retailers start scouting on their own or an interest is initiated through a commercial real estate broker (which is most commonly the case), all parties involved will often connect with the City to help sweeten the pot and help get the deals done.

[mugofbeer]

I think there is something to be said for timing and indications of interest. We have Dicks here in Denver and they are nothing to write home about. We also have Gander Mountain but I cant tell you anything about them other than they specialize in guns and hunting. I think if a store showing interest is of the type and quality then consider incentives. If REI was considering OKC, they might be worth it. Beyond this, I think OKC would be smart to start applying the program to attracting needed retail back to older parts of the city. Thats a harder proposition because it is significantly more risky.

[soonerguru]

This handout proves this city has no coherent retail strategy. As others have said, you hold your incentives for game changers. The fact we bribed Bass Pro to come here shows how utterly clueless this town is when it comes to attracting category leaders that spawn OTHER retailers to follow. Disappointed with the Chamber's efforts in this regard. We need some new blood and some new ideas.

And I agree completely with Spartan and Kerry: let's use this incentive program proactively and lure retail we really want here that changes the picture. The retail here is not worthy of a big league city, and Cabela's does nothing to change the trajectory of our city. If anything, it will merely cannibalize a category we already have in abundance.

Please develop a vision and strategy to cultivate a better, more diversified retail base in this city. Right now we have the keystone cops throwing money around haphazardly.

[kevinpate]

I find myself a bit perplexed on how it would be better to ahve spent the 3.5M on incentives for a sporting goods store to be downtown, or anywhere in the inner core, rather than to the north (or to the south for that matter.) What would a Cabela's bring to the inner core that the Bass Pro folks love to hate doesn't already bring? How would it improve the desire for folk to move DT, or relocate office to DT? As for sales tax dollars, unless somehow sales would be higher DT than Memorial or 240 or where ever, a sales tax dollar is a sales tax dollar once it is inside the city limits.

As for Costco would be more worthy for incentives than Cabela's, never been in one. Is it truly that different than a Sam's that it would be such a grand idea if incentives for sleeping bags and bass boats etc. at Cabela's is a horrid idea (and yes, I know they have a wider selection than just that.

[BoulderSooner]

This handout proves this city has no coherent retail strategy. As others have said, you hold your incentives for game changers. The fact we bribed Bass Pro to come here shows how utterly clueless this town is when it comes to attracting category leaders that spawn OTHER retailers to follow. Disappointed with the Chamber's efforts in this regard. We need some new blood and some new ideas.

And I agree completely with Spartan and Kerry: let's use this incentive program proactively and lure retail we really want here that changes the picture. The retail here is not worthy of a big league city, and Cabela's does nothing to change the trajectory of our city. If anything, it will merely cannibalize a category we already have in abundance.

Please develop a vision and strategy to cultivate a better, more diversified retail base in this city. Right now we have the keystone cops throwing money around haphazardly.

What a joke. Pretty sure the strategy is to bring in retail that will generate large sales receits. And this is a home run. 500 bucks per sq ft of sales We should give an incentive to any big box that can do the same

[Just the facts]

To keep it real - that $500/sq ft was in 2012 and was the result of a huge increase (over 30%) in gun sales that year.

Analysis: Cabela's building on gun sale gains by leveraging data | Reuters

[ljbab728]

Steve's article about Cabela's history with incentives.

Fishing for a deal: Cabela's makes case for Oklahoma City store | News OK

[zookeeper]

Steve's article about Cabela's history with incentives.

Fishing for a deal: Cabela's makes case for Oklahoma City store | News OK

Good, balanced article from Steve.

"The company, however, rarely misses an opportunity to collect incentives for new stores..."

"A 2012 study by the Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity calculated incentives to Cabela’s over the past two decades from 20 cities totaling more than $550 million. At least another half dozen such deals have concluded since, though at least one city, Greenville, S.C., was able to land a store without any incentives for the company."

(That's my own emphasis in the bolding)