One list that doesnt rank us high for business

[onthestrip]

Interesting ranking of states that are best equipped for the new economy, which is defined as “marked by globalization, technological innovation and entrepreneurial development.” Essentially education and innovation are very important...and it ranks us in the bottom five of the country. I generally dont place much importance on these rankings but this is a little less arbitrary than some buzz feed junk, this seems a little more legit. So it does make one worry how well our state is positioned for the future.

The Best And Worst States For The New Economy - Forbes

[Rover]

Our lack of support for education and culture will increasingly limit our ability to compete in the world.

[Just the facts]

Interesting ranking of states that are best equipped for the new economy, which is defined as “marked by globalization, technological innovation and entrepreneurial development.” Essentially education and innovation are very important...and it ranks us in the bottom five of the country. I generally dont place much importance on these rankings but this is a little less arbitrary than some buzz feed junk, this seems a little more legit. So it does make one worry how well our state is positioned for the future.

The Best And Worst States For The New Economy - Forbes

I disagree with the premise that the new economy will be "marked by globalization, technological innovation and entrepreneurial development". <That IS the economy that is in the tank for the last 7 years. Everything I have seen tells me we are shifting back to the "local economy".

[Rover]

Okay, so if growing a healthy economy consists of selling fried potatoes and beer to each other on the patio I guess we don't need education and culture.

Communication, transportation and growth opportunities will continue to make the world our market. Learning to understand, compete and cooperate will always be important. There is a whole important world outside main street USA and ignoring it doesn't lessen it's importance. Right now it is fashionable for tea Partiers to advocate isolation, but it won't be long term reality.

[bchris02]

Interesting ranking of states that are best equipped for the new economy, which is defined as “marked by globalization, technological innovation and entrepreneurial development.” Essentially education and innovation are very important...and it ranks us in the bottom five of the country. I generally dont place much importance on these rankings but this is a little less arbitrary than some buzz feed junk, this seems a little more legit. So it does make one worry how well our state is positioned for the future.

The Best And Worst States For The New Economy - Forbes

This doesn't surprise me. Education and innovation are simply not valued in this state. Brain drain is alive and well. States like West Virginia and Mississippi aren't good states to be ranked with, but that is the truth of this matter.

[HangryHippo]

Okay, so if growing a healthy economy consists of selling fried potatoes and beer to each other on the patio I guess we don't need education and culture.

Communication, transportation and growth opportunities will continue to make the world our market. Learning to understand, compete and cooperate will always be important. There is a whole important world outside main street USA and ignoring it doesn't lessen it's importance. Right now it is fashionable for tea Partiers to advocate isolation, but it won't be long term reality.

There's a difference between what JTF is talking about with a local economy and the Tea Party isolation you've brought up. But don't let that stand in the way of your melodramatic disdain for JTF's posts.

[Rover]

It is directly related. We will not thrive here in OKC by returning to a local main street small town economy. As our energy, bio-med, and even agriculture related industries grow we already see the importance of them being involved across the continent and around the world. To suggest that globalization, technological innovation and entrepreneurial development will not be important to us and linking that thought to "we are shifting back to the "local economy"" suggest a lack of need to focus on those things in the future. A dumbing down is not what is needed. I disagree not because of who said it, I disagree because it suggests a fundamental lack of vision on what will substantially grow and improve OKC, including local only business. To suggest we don't need to focus on education and cultural development because globalization and technology won't grow or be important is just wrong.

[HangryHippo]

It is directly related. We will not thrive here in OKC by returning to a local main street small town economy. As our energy, bio-med, and even agriculture related industries grow we already see the importance of them being involved across the continent and around the world. To suggest that globalization, technological innovation and entrepreneurial development will not be important to us and linking that thought to "we are shifting back to the "local economy"" suggest a lack of need to focus on those things in the future. A dumbing down is not what is needed. I disagree not because of who said it, I disagree because it suggests a fundamental lack of vision on what will substantially grow and improve OKC, including local only business. To suggest we don't need to focus on education and cultural development because globalization and technology won't grow or be important is just wrong.

I agree with you on this. I just think you took some serious liberty in your previous post comparing a JTF local economy to Tea Party isolationists. But I think you're spot on, Oklahoma's lack of investment in education and culture is going to bite us in the ass big time in the near future.

[Rover]

The general theme of Tea Partiers is to isolate ourselves on both a federal and local level. The evidence is that even though OK ranks very low in just about every educational category, the OK Tea Party leaders found it important to reject common standards and to instead rely on local expertise that has failed for generations now. The idea that because someone is local or your neighbor and therefore they are automatically right is wrong. Saying we don't need to participate in technology or international economy is tea party like.

[Just the facts]

So now the 'local economy' is a right-wing tea party thing? Do the left-wing 'urban gardeners' and 'shop local' crowd know about this? Interesting story today on CNBC about how high transportation costs are causing a shift to local manufacturing, tourism, and markets. For Globalization to even be considered viable transportation costs on a global scale need to stay low and global labor needs to stay cheap. Does anyone see that happening? Nope, me neither.

[bchris02]

So now the 'local economy' is a right-wing tea party thing? Do the left-wing 'urban gardeners' and 'shop local' crowd know about this? Interesting story today on CNBC about how high transportation costs are causing a shift to local manufacturing, tourism, and markets. For Globalization to even be considered viable transportation costs on a global scale need to stay low and global labor needs to stay cheap. Does anyone see that happening? Nope, me neither.

You have to step away from idealism and theory and take a look at the real world and the way it operates.

Certain things like the way people live are going to become more local, hence the urban gardening and shop local trends you speak of. Globalization though is not going away and big business will remain global. Things like energy, manufacturing, healthcare, technology, etc, etc, etc. As things like high-speed rail come online better connecting cities and towns across the country everything will become more interconnected. Education will become more and more important. You can't take new-urbanist theory and simply apply it to everything like a blanket.

[Just the facts]

I guess we will all know for sure in the next 20 years. If you believe in globalization put your eggs in that basket. I am betting on localization.

[bchris02]

I guess we will all know for sure in the next 20 years. If you believe in globalization put your eggs in that basket. I am betting on localization.

So I guess you are betting on the return of the agrarian society that existed prior to the industrial revolution. Personally I don't think returning to such a society is possible without both a massive reduction in global population as well as some sort of technological apocalypse.

[Plutonic Panda]

I guess we will all know for sure in the next 20 years. If you believe in globalization put your eggs in that basket. I am betting on localization.

I think it will be more balanced. Our cities do need to be more sustainable than they are.

The best question to ask, if the US Government stopped functioning and funding the war, employees, and everything, what do you think would happen to OKC? I'll give you a hint, it wouldn't be good.

[Just the facts]

So I guess you are betting on the return of the agrarian society that existed prior to the industrial revolution. Personally I don't think returning to such a society is possible without both a massive reduction in global population as well as some sort of technological apocalypse.

What? When we had a localized economy we were much more industry because everything had to be made locally. For example, every city in America with more than 20,000 people had a mattress manufacturer. The bigger the city the more mattress manufacturers there were. With globalization there are just a handful of mattress manufacturing plants and every town with more than 20,000 people has a retail store which sells them.

Guess what is making a comeback - the local custom mattress manufacturer.

Home - Oklahoma Mattress Company

[Plutonic Panda]

Like I said, I think it will be a balance.

[Just the facts]

Like I said, I think it will be a balance.

A 'balance' will be a big shift back to localization because for the last 40 years we tilted hard to the globalization side.

[Rover]

JTF may be on to something. As we keep devaluing education while other countries keep improving and we keep dropping, soon working at a mattress factory will be the best jobs we Okies can get. We can trade innovation and economic growth for a return to unskilled jobs. Who needs education and being able to compete?

[bchris02]

JTF may be on to something. As we keep devaluing education while other countries keep improving and we keep dropping, soon working at a mattress factory will be the best jobs we Okies can get. We can trade innovation and economic growth for a return to unskilled jobs. Who needs education and being able to compete?

That would be a real shame.

PluPan is right. There will be a balance. Local where it is beneficial but the world isn't going back to the pre-industrial agrarian society. Those who advocate for such would probably be the first to complain about all the problems that would come with it if we actually did go back there.

[Bunty]

JTF may be on to something. As we keep devaluing education while other countries keep improving and we keep dropping, soon working at a mattress factory will be the best jobs we Okies can get. We can trade innovation and economic growth for a return to unskilled jobs. Who needs education and being able to compete?

Interesting, even if meant to be sarcastic. Years ago my brother worked for a while at a small mattress maker in Stillwater. It was over in the other block in the neighborhood, so he simply walked there. Seems like there was a lot of pounding with a cane pole that went into making a mattress as I vaguely recall. Interesting also how there were several little grocery stores within walking distance within the neighborhood. Those were the good 'ol days. These days, probably advanced automation has replaced many workers in the mattress manufacturing process. Convenience stores have helped replace the little neighborhood grocery stores, and in the neighborhood I use to live, there is a convenience store close enough to walk to.

[Bunty]

A 'balance' will be a big shift back to localization because for the last 40 years we tilted hard to the globalization side.

It might as well be that way, considering how much industry bypasses Oklahoma, in part because it's hard for Oklahoma to attract companies wanting to grow more global, due to having very few, if any, non stop international destinations from its major airports. Oklahoma should concentrate more on being innovative with a strong entrepreneur spirit to originate and grow industry of its own to fit in the modern world. But that requires good education and the state should quit neglecting it.

[Just the facts]

A localized economy is going to require more education, not less. Instead of a Walmart with a manager and 250 underlings and all buying, finance, marketing decisions being made out of a corporate headquarter, we are going to need 25 local shop keepers making buying, finance, and marketing decisions and local manufactures/suppliers all doing the same thing as well. It is a shame that most people's sense of history only starts with the day they were born.

[bchris02]

A localized economy is going to require more education, not less. Instead of a Walmart with a manager and 250 underlings and all buying, finance, marketing decisions being made out of a corporate headquarter, we are going to need 25 local shop keepers making buying, finance, and marketing decisions and local manufactures/suppliers all doing the same thing as well. It is a shame that most people's sense of history only starts with the day they were born.

That doesn't make much sense. Why would it take MORE education to have an agrarian society where everybody lives in small, self-sustaining communities? The type of economy you are advocating for is similar to what existed in Europe during the dark ages. There may have been some advantages to that life i.e. much greater since of community. However, if you look at the quality of life in those communities, it wasn't the idealized picture that is commonly painted today. Education was very low, most people didn't have very nice things, life expectancy was low because the community doctor only knew so much (and wasn't required to be trained the way today's doctors are) and the community's lord, usually sanctioned by the church, had the final say in everything. I'll take today's globalized society.

[Just the facts]

why do you keep assuming agrarian and globalization are the only two options for an economy? Globalization is NOT the industrial revolution. Those two eras are separated by 200 years.

Also, do you even understand the conditions many people in the world work under to support your globalization? As conditions in these developing countries improves and transportation costs go up globalization will die.

[bchris02]

why do you keep assuming agrarian and globalization are the only two options for an economy? Globalization is NOT the industrial revolution. Those two eras are separated by 200 years.

More like 100 years (late 19th century for industrial revolution, late 20th century for Internet revolution). I don't think returning to entirely a local economy is possible in the Internet age. It would take a massive reduction in global population, possibly down to 1 billion or below, as well as some sort of techno-apocalypse wiping out all computers/electronics. The only way to get the kind of society you are advocating for without those conditions met is to enforce it with an iron fist. Do that, and we would end up with a society like North Korea.