Bricktown Shakeup

[Pete]

How about the very first post in this thread, Pete?

If you want to focus on odd comments by a poster no one else takes seriously, go right ahead.

Just strange that you would choose to do so.

[pickles]

How about the very first post in this thread, Pete?

lol. Classic bchris.

[Pete]

Anyway...

Glad to see this is going forward.

I know Burnett & Martin are saying this will just be a "long-term hold" but my understanding is they are also trying to buy the Spaghetti Warehouse building and that the lot on the SE corner of Sheridan and Oklahoma may be developed into a mid-rise, higher-end Marriott hotel property by a separate group.

I'm also hearing that Karchmer wants to move forward with the garage structure on the SW corner of Sheridan and Oklahoma before he starts on the other garage in north Bricktown.

After these properties close, we should learn more.

[LakeEffect]

Anyway...

Glad to see this is going forward.

I know Burnett & Martin are saying this will just be a "long-term hold" but my understanding is they are also trying to buy the Spaghetti Warehouse building and that the lot on the SE corner of Sheridan and Oklahoma may be developed into a mid-rise, higher-end Marriott hotel property by a separate group.

I'm also hearing that Karchmer wants to move forward with the garage structure on the SW corner of Sheridan and Oklahoma before he starts on the other garage in north Bricktown.

After these properties close, we should learn more.

We may not take bchris seriously, but Steve was pretty pointed in his Twitter-tease last night about the story that he was taking bchris, and some of the following comments, rather seriously.

[jccouger]

Lately Steve has been taking the worst of the worst comments and using them to paint OKCtalk with a very broad brush. Steve is as big of a troll (He's informed, but he is still a troll) as BChris. When Trolls collide we end up with pages of threads discussing their comments (See last few pages). OKCtalk is the best place for current information about OKC thanks to very wise & knowledgable posters, and I refuse to let Steve to try to take away from that. Everybody who knows how to type on a keyboard is allowed to post here, and you can't expect Pete or anybody else to moderate that strictly so there are bound to be rumors with not much backing them discussed here.

Besides all that, I don't see any information in Steve's article that "blew up" any rumors here. In fact, I think it was one of the least insightful articles I've read from him in a long time. There is nothing concrete in that article AT ALL about what will happen with these properties other than they will exchange hands. So any & all outcomes are still "possible".

[UnFrSaKn]

Video added to Steve's article.

[Steve]

Lately Steve has been taking the worst of the worst comments and using them to paint OKCtalk with a very broad brush. Steve is as big of a troll (He's informed, but he is still a troll) as BChris. When Trolls collide we end up with pages of threads discussing their comments (See last few pages). OKCtalk is the best place for current information about OKC thanks to very wise & knowledgable posters, and I refuse to let Steve to try to take away from that. Everybody who knows how to type on a keyboard is allowed to post here, and you can't expect Pete or anybody else to moderate that strictly so there are bound to be rumors with not much backing them discussed here.

Besides all that, I don't see any information in Steve's article that "blew up" any rumors here. In fact, I think it was one of the least insightful articles I've read from him in a long time. There is nothing concrete in that article AT ALL about what will happen with these properties other than they will exchange hands. So any & all outcomes are still "possible".

Oh stop it now. I'm responding to this because A: I think Pete did a great job in this thread trying to tone down the conspiracy talk engaged in by at least a half dozen people by my count, and B: because I want to make note I NEVER even mentioned OKC TALK or hinted to it in my tweet. There are tenants in Bricktown, however, who were reading this thread, they are not frequent visitors or participants, and they weren't in the know as to who is and isn't seen as "moderate." And when I mention online rumors and conspiracy theories, this also refers to items posted by readers on my blog and on the live chat. Some folks on here have really, really thin skins and assume everything I say referring to "online" is this site. Pete has created a competing, unique source of information here, he's getting some good information, and he's free to do it his way while I do it my way. I do not set my agenda each day by what is being discussed on this site. I am not participating in the discussions any more and I'm not going to get caught up in flame wars. Believe what you want to believe. Say what you want. This is my only comment.

[Just the facts]

Like^

[jccouger]

You just counted the total amount of conspiracy theorists & say you had Bricktown tenants come to you about this thread, and then you are going to say the tweet wasn't about OKCtalk? Give me a break. You don't have to specifically mention OKCtalk for us to realize you are talking about this site. I'm not trying to criticize you or your work, typically I think you do a fantastic job, but your frequent shot at posters on this site (even though I'm sure some deserve it) is growing old. You can report on something without taking jabs at people who post here & the OKCtalk community as a whole.

[shawnw]

Steve and Pete I love you both.

(group hug)

[okclee]

Lately Steve has been taking the worst of the worst comments and using them to paint OKCtalk with a very broad brush. Steve is as big of a troll (He's informed, but he is still a troll) as BChris. When Trolls collide we end up with pages of threads discussing their comments (See last few pages). OKCtalk is the best place for current information about OKC thanks to very wise & knowledgable posters, and I refuse to let Steve to try to take away from that. Everybody who knows how to type on a keyboard is allowed to post here, and you can't expect Pete or anybody else to moderate that strictly so there are bound to be rumors with not much backing them discussed here.

Besides all that, I don't see any information in Steve's article that "blew up" any rumors here. In fact, I think it was one of the least insightful articles I've read from him in a long time. There is nothing concrete in that article AT ALL about what will happen with these properties other than they will exchange hands. So any & all outcomes are still "possible".

Very well said, especially about the guy that writes for the local paper, it's gotten to be very strange situation with him.

[hoya]

Oh stop it now. I'm responding to this because A: I think Pete did a great job in this thread trying to tone down the conspiracy talk engaged in by at least a half dozen people by my count, and B: because I want to make note I NEVER even mentioned OKC TALK or hinted to it in my tweet. There are tenants in Bricktown, however, who were reading this thread, they are not frequent visitors or participants, and they weren't in the know as to who is and isn't seen as "moderate." And when I mention online rumors and conspiracy theories, this also refers to items posted by readers on my blog and on the live chat. Some folks on here have really, really thin skins and assume everything I say referring to "online" is this site. Pete has created a competing, unique source of information here, he's getting some good information, and he's free to do it his way while I do it my way. I do not set my agenda each day by what is being discussed on this site. I am not participating in the discussions any more and I'm not going to get caught up in flame wars. Believe what you want to believe. Say what you want. This is my only comment.

Is your blog still up? I had it bookmarked and now it goes to a bad link.

[Urbanized]

If you want to focus on odd comments by a poster no one else takes seriously, go right ahead.

Just strange that you would choose to do so.

Pete, there were plenty of other comments in that vein (concern that there was a move afoot to change Bricktown's character from entertainment district to tepid office park) from much more well-regarded posters such as adaniel, betts, and Midtowner. Example:

Generally speaking, I'm a little disappointed in all of this development in Bricktown. This is a taxpayer financed entertainment district slowly turning into an office park.

It'd be too bad if all of the night life was forced out.

Please don't make me dig them all up. I'm willing to let sleeping dogs lie if everyone else is. I only posted what I did earlier to point out that the alarmist posts appear to be pretty baseless. Don't take every criticism of posters' overreactions (a common occurrence here that I myself have been guilty of I'm sure) as a criticism of the site itself. It's not the same thing.

[Questor]

Haven't had anything to say in this thread, not taking sides, but in all seriousness I do want to say if you are someone who self-identifies as representing Bricktown leadership on message boards... please take the high-road. Some of the things said to people here left such distaste in my mouth it actually has soured my thoughts on Bricktown itself. And I actually like Bricktown, so I could only imagine how someone else could take it.

Anyway, on a more factual note, I got to looking through ABLE Commission regulations and I found this general statement:

(i) The Commission may impose a fine, suspend or revoke an organization's license for any violation of the Act or rule promulgated by the Commission. An organization which has had a license revoked in this or any other jurisdiction shall not be eligible for a new license for a period of one (1) year from the date of revocation.

And then this specific regulation:

45:10-3-10. Prohibited conduct on licensed premises No licensee shall engage in, allow, permit or suffer in or upon his licensed premises any disturbances, lewdness, immoral activities or displays, brawls, or unnecessary noises, or allow, permit, or suffer the licensed premises to be conducted in such a manner as to create public censure or to become a nuisance.

I am thinking that this does in fact give ABLE the power to revoke someone's liquor license if they become a repeated nuisance. Now whether or not they have some internal guidance on a set number of issues reported is anyone's guess, but it at least appears to me that they could go there if they wanted to. So this makes me wonder if no one is reporting a problem, or if reports have been filed and ABLE has determined there isn't enough there to act. Speaking of distaste, I have gone on a few rants able ABLE here before, so I can't imagine them not doing exactly what they want if such a situation were warranted. If in reality trouble is happening out on a public street then I'm guessing that probably doesn't warrant action.

[Questor]

From this article:

Developers set to buy and redevelop original Bricktown ?core? | News OK

Is this quote: Martin said the TapWerks building, 121 E Sheridan Ave., will undergo an extensive upgrade to allow for development of a possible “speakeasy” style bar in the building’s basement and conversion of the rarely used third floor into event space.

Okay, so that sounds good in theory. The only thing that worries me is I wonder whether or not they'll want to kick TapWerks out of that building while they are revamping it, and whether or not that would become permanent. But maybe they would find a better bar tenant?

[Urbanized]

If you're talking about me let me state for the record that I in no way represent the leadership of Bricktown, nor have I represented anywhere that I do. I did serve as a longtime board member, but haven't done so in several years. That said, I'm not certain where I have said anything distasteful. Perhaps you are turned off by the idea of some of the things I mention witnessing or having had to deal with over the years, but them's the facts. If you're referencing the few mild personal attacks leveled at me for reporting said facts, well, I agree, but THOSE people don't represent Bricktown either, nor did they suggest that they did.

[Chadanth]

From this article:

Developers set to buy and redevelop original Bricktown ?core? | News OK

Is this quote: Martin said the TapWerks building, 121 E Sheridan Ave., will undergo an extensive upgrade to allow for development of a possible “speakeasy” style bar in the building’s basement and conversion of the rarely used third floor into event space.

Okay, so that sounds good in theory. The only thing that worries me is I wonder whether or not they'll want to kick TapWerks out of that building while they are revamping it, and whether or not that would become permanent. But maybe they would find a better bar tenant?

Tapwerks is great, I have trouble thinking they'd do any better.

[Pete]

I'm sure they won't disturb Tapwerks much while improving the other floors.

Look forward to seeing that building fully utilized.

[Ginkasa]

I'm hopeful that this will ultimately prove beneficial to Bricktown.

[bchris02]

Tapwerks is great, I have trouble thinking they'd do any better.

I agree. Tapwerks is awesome and will be disappointed if it goes.

[Urbanized]

TapWerks is a real asset to the district; actually to downtown in general. They are locally owned with a local following, yet still a neat place to take/send visitors due to the appearance/decor and remarkable beer selection. Just as importantly, they are open seven days, both for lunch and with a late kitchen for dinner.

They are an asset for all of downtown because they make a point of being open even during blizzards, ice storms and other severe weather events. Sometimes this makes it one of the only places - if not THE only - where a downtown resident can walk/ski/skate/snowshoe and get a meal during when the rest of downtown is paralyzed.

I'm certain based on how smart I know the guys in this deal are that TapWerks will be held on to as the valuable asset they are.

[Spartan]

Oh stop it now. I'm responding to this because A: I think Pete did a great job in this thread trying to tone down the conspiracy talk engaged in by at least a half dozen people by my count, and B: because I want to make note I NEVER even mentioned OKC TALK or hinted to it in my tweet. There are tenants in Bricktown, however, who were reading this thread, they are not frequent visitors or participants, and they weren't in the know as to who is and isn't seen as "moderate." And when I mention online rumors and conspiracy theories, this also refers to items posted by readers on my blog and on the live chat. Some folks on here have really, really thin skins and assume everything I say referring to "online" is this site. Pete has created a competing, unique source of information here, he's getting some good information, and he's free to do it his way while I do it my way. I do not set my agenda each day by what is being discussed on this site. I am not participating in the discussions any more and I'm not going to get caught up in flame wars. Believe what you want to believe. Say what you want. This is my only comment.

If we had a better track record with preservation then the conspiracies and nerves wouldn't be so self fulfilling. We are talking about Oklahoma City here, and it's universally understood that we collectively don't value our historic fabric enough.

[MustangGT]

Exactly.

More than being concerned, I believe this could be a great turn of events that results in much more development, redevelopment and density in the heart of Bricktown.

We all know that the district needs to take the next step, and this could be a big part of making that happen.

Precisely. Those that now decry the advancement are the self same ones who years ago were calling for change. Hypocrites perhaps???

[Spartan]

Why would you call anyone hypocrites? I assume you mean all ofthe people who simply care and see a vision for Bricktown. The reality is that Bricktown is a matter of public investment and we all need to protect that investment.

I'm with Pete in that this is exciting, I have great respect for the players involved (sans Ward), and the potential is here based on the property assemblage, but I just hope that this is a big move for the better. Bricktown isn't broke and there is already a lot going on towards achieving that next step we've all known is needed here.

[Pete]

Ward's role in all of this is still unclear.

It doesn't seem that he is a direct investor in these properties (although there are certainly other unnamed parties), but: 1) It was casually mentioned he DOES now have an interest in the Miedke Building, which is new news; 2) He absolutely dictated that CityWalk be bought out before he moved Tapstone into that building; 3) He is now a real estate partner with Burnett & Martin who are leading the group that will be buying and developing these properties, including the Mideke Building which they surround; and 4) Suddenly Club One115 seems to be unwelcome.

These things are all interrelated and to completely dismiss Ward's involvement and influence is to not to tell the full story, which will continue to unfold. These properties haven't even sold yet.

And given Ward's well-earned reputation for demolishing historical buildings and wanting to control the area around his company HQ, you can't blame people for asking questions and being a bit nervous. He also seems to be regaining a lot of his former power and still has many allies, like Larry Nichols.


I still see these recent developments as very positive but someone needs to be minding the store here, i.e. paying attention to little things (like, suddenly, Ward is a partner in the Mideke) and being on the advance lookout for things that many might find troubling, especially if not given enough time to participate in the public process.

I'm quite sure had I not come out with this story, it probably wouldn't have been told until well after the properties changed hands, as that is almost always the way with the mainstream press.

Several people are already concerned about the loss of probably two clubs -- one quite nice -- right out of the gate. And clearly, lots of other changes will be coming soon.

For those who care about downtown and Bricktown, it's only wise to continue to pay close attention to all this.