Bricktown Shakeup

[Urbanized]

There is some confusion here. Nobody is suggesting there will be demolitions. Don't read into it. I think someone was expressing concern that a makeover of the building that Spaghetti Warehouse is in might lead to the elimination of the restaurant; a possibility that I would also greatly discount.

[Pete]

There is some confusion here. Nobody is suggesting there will be demolitions. Don't read into it. I think someone was expressing concern that a makeover of the building that Spaghetti Warehouse is in might lead to the elimination of the restaurant; a possibility that I would also greatly discount.

Exactly.

More than being concerned, I believe this could be a great turn of events that results in much more development, redevelopment and density in the heart of Bricktown.

We all know that the district needs to take the next step, and this could be a big part of making that happen.

[Bullbear]

I was looking at the Karchmeye #2 property just last week.. I like it a lot.
I think it could be and interesting outdoor venue and beer garden.. I know it will most likely become parking

[Pete]

Tom Ward is pretty straight and narrow and he doesn't mind forcing his mindset on things around him, I've heard. It wouldn't shock me to hear he doesn't want clubs and such around his business. I remember someone telling me that when he was part owner of the Thunder he insisted the Thunder girls costumes be more modest than some other teams' cheerleaders.

Speaking of Ward and the Thunder, remember he just sold his interest in the team to George Kaiser.

I know he's investing heavily in Tapstone but perhaps the proceeds will also help fund his real estate interests.

[catch22]

I disagree. We NEED to develop some of these larger lots as parking garages. But at the same time, we need to be getting rid of other surface lots. The garages give us some density and parking relief, and will open opportunities to create density (smaller buildings for office residential or restaurant) on smaller lots currently used for surface parking.

We have all these surface lots and broken urban fabric because parking generates so much revenue. We need a large block(s) of parking to come online to make those surface lots unprofitable for parking. Forcing a better use.

[PhiAlpha]

I disagree. We NEED to develop some of these larger lots as parking garages. But at the same time, we need to be getting rid of other surface lots. The garages give us some density and parking relief, and will open opportunities to create density (smaller buildings for office residential or restaurant) on smaller lots currently used for surface parking.

We have all these surface lots and broken urban fabric because parking generates so much revenue. We need a large block(s) of parking to come online to make those surface lots unprofitable for parking. Forcing a better use.

Maybe developing a massive parking structure on the Karchmer 1 lot will encourage Chileno's to stop completely ignoring the canal (I guess it's not completely ignoring it since it has a half ass attempt at a patio...but come on...).

If they didn't develop that lot into parking, it might be cool to make it something like Guthrie Green in Tulsa's Brady District or Fort Worth's new Sundance Square Plaza that they use for outdoor events. Either way, it's being underutilized as a massive, gated surface lot.

[SoonerDave]

I agree that the Spaghetti Warehouse is a Bricktown institution.

I never hear about people going there, but I think they still do a decent business.

The place has a soft spot in my heart.

Me too. We used to be regulars down there, but through no fault of Spaghetti Warehouse, we just don't get down there as often. My wife and I went there on a "date night" back when Seinfeld was in town a few years ago, and we had a positively wonderful dinner and great service. Even better than we expected, which isn't a knock, just a reminder of a very nice evening. We were served by what had to be one of the nicest waiters ever, too, I recall.

I would absolutely hate for all that to go away. My wife and I took a walk through Bricktown a few months back and went from Pinkitzel (where I made the egregious mistake of seeing a big BUNN coffeemaker and foolishly meaning I should expect to get a piping hot cup of coffee brewed from it, only to see the clerk pour me a cup of ghastly brown something from a dispenser that had the words "coffee" on it, but I refuse to believe it. As I *really* wanted some coffee, I suffered a few sips, but it was so awful I threw it away. I didn't ask for my money back because the lady had given us a free chocolate covered strawberry, but I did go back and tell her, "Guys, you've got that beautiful coffee maker back there, and you just sold me some horrendous instant coffee. Why is that?" She said, "Oh, the Bunn is just for big parties." I shook my head, we left, and walked down to Cocoa Flow (where Uncommon Grounds used to be years ago) and the host there custom brewed me a fresh-ground cup of absolutely delicious coffee. I digress, but the point of it all was the fact that we could walk around the area and have all these nice alternatives, which is the point of a lot of the efforts downtown in the first place.

Here's hoping the entertainment district doesn't get pushed to the side as things progress.

[kevinpate]

Ok. Maybe. But I wouldn't really shed a tear if we lost Spaghetti Warehouse.

The city might if they did not relocate should a move become necessary. Unless they have fallen way off in business, there would be quite a few dollars going into city coffers from the long time pasta movers.

[kbsooner]

We park in lots 2, 5 and Karchmer 1 for our office in the Glass Bldg (across to Tapwerks). Been hearing of the property changes for a while. We will be very interested parties to see how this plays out. Karchmer 1 is ripe for structured parking for ACM at UCO and for development of space above Spaghetti Warehouse.

[SoonerFP]

If they did a parking garage right, you could still have retail, restaurants, etc. on the street level and have parking above and it could infill the area and be made to look like it belongs, especially if they bricked up part of it.


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[Midtowner]

Generally speaking, I'm a little disappointed in all of this development in Bricktown. This is a taxpayer financed entertainment district slowly turning into an office park.

It'd be too bad if all of the night life was forced out.

[Plutonic Panda]

Generally speaking, I'm a little disappointed in all of this development in Bricktown. This is a taxpayer financed entertainment district slowly turning into an office park.

It'd be too bad if all of the night life was forced out.

?? There are several new hotels, residential developments with new retail, the new House of Bedlam(Brickopolis), and who knows what the future holds.

My beef is with people who want every single nightclub gone. I don't think though, Bricktown will turn into an office park, I hope not at least.

[bchris02]

?? There are several new hotels, residential developments with new retail, the new House of Bedlam(Brickopolis), and who knows what the future holds.

My beef is with people who want every single nightclub gone. I don't think though, Bricktown will turn into an office park, I hope not at least.

Unfortunately those people seem to be the ones in control at this time. Steve, who is very influential, unapologetically takes that position. I think they are wrong and as I've said before, are either unable or are refusing to distinguish between a club like Social was and a club like One15. They simply think nightclub = trashy crowd and violence without considering that not all nightclubs are the same. I don't think it will turn into an office park. However, it seems the district is currently seeing a huge shift and there is going to be some major growing pains.

[Spartan]

I disagree. We NEED to develop some of these larger lots as parking garages. But at the same time, we need to be getting rid of other surface lots. The garages give us some density and parking relief, and will open opportunities to create density (smaller buildings for office residential or restaurant) on smaller lots currently used for surface parking.

We have all these surface lots and broken urban fabric because parking generates so much revenue. We need a large block(s) of parking to come online to make those surface lots unprofitable for parking. Forcing a better use.

I just hope we are only talking about parking taking up surface lots, but I am worried because of who is involved and our past history in this supposed historic warehouse district alone.

[gopokes88]

I think everyone is overreacting and letting their imaginations run a little wild in this thread. Bricktown will always be the entertainment district in this city. Tapwerks isn't going anywhere. They make way too much money. Tom ward isn't the giant he once was was in this city, he lost a lot of clout when he got the boot at sandridge. We will see what he's able to do with Tapstone but he's going at a turtles pace compared to AEP or the new giant that is continental. (Although Hamm doesn't seem to be too intense about okc development. He's more of a traditional to hell with democrats energy guy)

[coov23]

One also has to think how the mass exudes of the clubs will affect the Thunder in signing free agents and re-signing players. Most of those guys are young and single and like to party. I've seen several out and about in Bricktown clubs.

[Urbanized]

Oh, good grief.

[coov23]

Generally speaking, I'm a little disappointed in all of this development in Bricktown. This is a taxpayer financed entertainment district slowly turning into an office park.

It'd be too bad if all of the night life was forced out.

This. Okc chamber and mayor Cornett need to sack up and stand their ground for the people that bored, and paid for that district.

[coov23]

Oh, good grief.

Really hope you aren't talking about my Thunder comment. Think of if like this: bricktown has seen profits go up due to the success of the Thunder. More people go to the games. More people eat out and stay after to go to bars and clubs. A bad Thunder team creates less of a profit. It all works hand-in-hand.

[Urbanized]

Haha YES!! Damn the thoughtful renovations of upper floors in Bricktown and addition of highly-paid jobs to the neighborhood and community at large by these evil corporations! Taxpayers demand pornstar DJs!

[Urbanized]

Really hope you aren't talking about my Thunder comment. Think of if like this: bricktown has seen profits go up due to the success of the Thunder. More people go to the games. More people eat out and stay after to go to bars and clubs. A bad Thunder team creates less of a profit. It all works hand-in-hand.

Uh, yeah, I am talking PRECISELY about your Thunder comment. You think Thunder players are here because of the clubs in Bricktown? You think basketball will suffer if clubs emerge somewhere else and Bricktown tilts more toward a bar/live music scene? What an incredible overreach.

[Plutonic Panda]

Uh, yeah, I am talking PRECISELY about your Thunder comment. You think Thunder players are here because of the clubs in Bricktown? You think basketball will suffer if clubs emerge somewhere else and Bricktown tilts more toward a bar/live music scene? What an incredible overreach.

While I agree that that comment was silly about the Thunder made by another poster, I think you are over reaching by saying one or two nightclubs will really have a big impact on street life and cause more violence.

Again, there are great things happening here like the Brickopolis, new Steelyard w/ possible Hyatt hotel, new development that will make Dallas and KC jealous; I still think one or two nightclubs would be good for Bricktown.

[bchris02]

Coov23 somewhat makes a point. A city with no club scene is many times seen as a city with nothing to do, especially by young, single people in their twenties. It may not be everyone here's favorite kind of nightlife but they have their niche.

[coov23]

Uh, yeah, I am talking PRECISELY about your Thunder comment. You think Thunder players are here because of the clubs in Bricktown? You think basketball will suffer if clubs emerge somewhere else and Bricktown tilts more toward a bar/live music scene? What an incredible overreach.

An overreach? Weird. I'll go ahead and tell you that I'm aquatinted with a couple of the players. They do like going to clubs every now and then. Renting the VIP areas out on those occasions. The young rookies are guys that like going out and doing stuff like that. A city with no clubs is known, as bchris put it, with not much to do. I know the older crowd doesn't see it that way, but think of an entertainment district through a 21-25 year olds eyes. They enjoy that scene. Having a couple of upscale clubs isn't going to hurt bricktown.

As for your snide, condescending remarks? I know you think you're some urban connoisseur, and you might be, but you obviously don't know the fabric and thinking of the 18-34 crowd. Also, known as the millennials. Everyone of the Thunder players for that age range, outside of Nick Collison and Derek Fisher.

[PhiAlpha]

An overreach? Weird. I'll go ahead and tell you that I'm aquatinted with a couple of the players. They do like going to clubs every now and then. Renting the VIP areas out on those occasions. The young rookies are guys that like going out and doing stuff like that. A city with no clubs is known, as bchris put it, with not much to do. I know the older crowd doesn't see it that way, but think of an entertainment district through a 21-25 year olds eyes. They enjoy that scene. Having a couple of upscale clubs isn't going to hurt bricktown.

As for your snide, condescending remarks? I know you think you're some urban connoisseur, and you might be, but you obviously don't know the fabric and thinking of the 18-34 crowd. Also, known as the millennials. Everyone of the Thunder players for that age range, outside of Nick Collison and Derek Fisher.

Most young professionals in the 18-34 crowd and even a lot of college students don't enjoy going to clubs (or at least the type of clubs we have in Bricktown) that much and prefer the type of bars and music venues that urbanized mentioned. The lack of them and especially the lack of a cluster of them (even though this is improving with the plaza, western, etc) is part of the reason our nightlife scene, especially Bricktown, gets gets a bad rap at times. We do need Bricktown to be filled with more of that type of venue similar to the way Brady and blue dome in Tulsa have developed. I, and literally everyone I know that lives in OKC or Oklahoma in general, would prefer that the majority of the trashy, douchie, graphic T type clubs close or be relocated as Bricktown becomes a true mixed use district; I don't know anyone that was disappointed that city walk closed. We might visit one of the decent Bricktown clubs once or twice a year but spend the majority of nights at bars. We don't need a full block of trashy clubs like we have on Sheridan right now (excluding one15). The street is completely dead 7 days a week during the day and 4-5 days a week at night. One or two of those clubs could definitely coexist with other venues in Bricktown, but shouldn't be on a primary street or the canal or in a cluster anywhere. Check out the police presence that they feel is necessary outside of Albee and Candy at around 1:30 every Friday and Saturday, it's very similar to the sketchiest part of lodo in Denver. I do think clubs help provide a variety of options and have a place in Bricktown similar to how a few coexist with the bars on 6th Street in Austin, but they shouldn't be the main focus of the district anymore. They are destroying the street life there night and day during the week. Any that remain should double as restaurants during the day.


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