Plaza District Living

[Mike_M]

So after growing up and living in the suburbs pretty much our whole lives, my wife and I got the itch to live closer to the urban core. Being huge fans of the Plaza and Uptown 23rd, it started off as a joke to sell our house and move to Uptown. Well, through a hilarious set of events, we actually found a nice little house we really like and are considering taking the plunge.

I'm not looking to start another Urban vs. Suburban war. What I would like to know is if anyone has made the move from the suburbs to an area like the Plaza. I love the area and it's potential, but growing up in neighborhoods with carpet-like lawns, HOA's, and mass produced housing, the Plaza's can be really exciting but also a little bit scary. Some streets are very well kept and beautiful, then some look very inner-city-esque (no offense to anyone who lives there, just different considering my background).

I'm excited to be a part of the growth of the city, as well as having so much art, music, and culture outside of my door. But I would also love to hear if anyone else has made a similar move and what to expect or look out for. Is there something you didn't consider until you had already moved? And not to give in to the stereotype, is crime something I should be more concerned with than on the city outskirts?

Thanks!

[blangtang]

So after growing up and living in the suburbs pretty much our whole lives, my wife and I got the itch to live closer to the urban core. Being huge fans of the Plaza and Uptown 23rd, it started off as a joke to sell our house and move to Uptown. Well, through a hilarious set of events, we actually found a nice little house we really like and are considering taking the plunge.

I'm not looking to start another Urban vs. Suburban war. What I would like to know is if anyone has made the move from the suburbs to an area like the Plaza. I love the area and it's potential, but growing up in neighborhoods with carpet-like lawns, HOA's, and mass produced housing, the Plaza's can be really exciting but also a little bit scary. Some streets are very well kept and beautiful, then some look very inner-city-esque (no offense to anyone who lives there, just different considering my background).

I'm excited to be a part of the growth of the city, as well as having so much art, music, and culture outside of my door. But I would also love to hear if anyone else has made a similar move and what to expect or look out for. Is there something you didn't consider until you had already moved? And not to give in to the stereotype, is crime something I should be more concerned with than on the city outskirts?

Thanks!

It really can be street by street.

Not sure of your desired location, but the area around the Catholic church on 18th and Indiana is pretty nice, but 14th and Indiana aint so pretty...yet.

Some people park cars in their yard and don't mow their grass, so you have to use the cops and code enforcement instead of the HOA, if that sort of thing bothers your sensibilities.

Some times the ghetto chopper hovers in the area with its spot light on, maybe its to make the out of towners at OCU feel safe, I'm not sure.

[Spartan]

CTP is a targeted neighborhood. The city is exploring improvements that could make the area S of 16th explode in a few years. I always thought that area has the potential to become something like the Tremont area in Cleveland (the Christmas Story 'hood) where I live! Cottages can be beautiful! I think CTP is also unique bc it has a higher preponderance of 2 story homes than most OKC neighborhoods.

[Teo9969]

It really can be street by street.

Not sure of your desired location, but the area around the Catholic church on 18th and Indiana is pretty nice, but 14th and Indiana aint so pretty...yet.

Some people park cars in their yard and don't mow their grass, so you have to use the cops and code enforcement instead of the HOA, if that sort of thing bothers your sensibilities.

Some times the ghetto chopper hovers in the area with its spot light on, maybe its to make the out of towners at OCU feel safe, I'm not sure.

Anytime that happens/ed, there is/was a slew of posts about it in my FB feed.

To the OP…it's only going to get better, that's all I can really say. Regardless of the Suburban/Urban debate, I think every person on this forum agrees that the Urban Core is going to be the recipient of much gentrification and urbanization and that it is likely the most dynamic part of the city because of how far away it is from what it should be.

Crime is a possibility anywhere you're at…install plenty of lighting around your home, have an alarm, etc…and you should be fine. You don't need to bar your windows and have 5 deadbolts, just don't make yourself an easy target and you should be fine.

[Jeepnokc]

Anytime that happens/ed, there is/was a slew of posts about it in my FB feed.

To the OP…it's only going to get better, that's all I can really say. Regardless of the Suburban/Urban debate, I think every person on this forum agrees that the Urban Core is going to be the recipient of much gentrification and urbanization and that it is likely the most dynamic part of the city because of how far away it is from what it should be.

Crime is a possibility anywhere you're at…install plenty of lighting around your home, have an alarm, etc…and you should be fine. You don't need to bar your windows and have 5 deadbolts, just don't make yourself an easy target and you should be fine.

Teo is right about the lights especially. When I lived in Gatewood and HH east, I was amazed at the number of dark houses I would see. The only time the ghetto bird should worry you is when they are shining it in your own backyard. Then you let the great danes or airedale out and go back to your beer. Big dogs are the best security system/deterrent around.

[BBatesokc]

Lived in the area for awhile and still know people who do. Was also a partner in some rental properties. Personally, I'd possibly live there (if I had to), but I wouldn't if I had a wife or kids. The area I speak of is south of 16th. North of 16th is street by street (as stated by others).

Before we moved last year we saw a couple of houses that we liked around 18th or so, but just didn't want to be surrounded by the criminal element that infests that area. We lived in that type of neighborhood for too long.

However, I would consider additional investment property there.

[Urbanized]

Lived in Gatewood just prior to the emergence of Plaza (actually during the street scape work & even attended Plaza Main Street Committee meetings). Loved it, LOVED it. Great neighborhood. Plaza's success now would only make the experience better.

Also agree with Jeep's sentiments about security, the ghetto bird, and even the Great Danes.

[soonerguru]

Get a quality alarm system, good lighting, and a dog and you'll be fine.

[bluedogok]

That area has been improving over the years, albeit slowly.

[Jeepnokc]

That area has been improving over the years, albeit slowly.

Although we wouldn't move back to the area at this stage of our lives (maybe later though after kids move out as we still own the house and the one next door), my wife was commenting about how disappointed she is that the Plaza district wasn't like this in 1994-2002 when we lived at 21st and Douglas. Of course, I am disappointed that Granddads wasn't around during 2002-2007 when we lived at 21st and Robinson. It would have been just a little further crawl home than Blue Note.

[bluedogok]

My grandparents lived in a house that we redid in the late 70's to early 80's on NW 22nd behind the Sirloin Stockade (I think that was the restaurant). That neighborhood was much different in that era.

[betts]

I would move there without thinking twice about it. I think living in an evolving neighborhood is exciting and I love restoring/improving houses.

[Mr. Cotter]

Where are you looking? I live a bit north of 23rd, and absolutely love it. I moved from Edmond to buy my house, and I'm never moving back.

[tillyato]

Two years ago we bought a house across the street from St. Francis near 19th and Indiana and absolutely love it. I would say that (generally speaking) Gatewood from Carey Place west is pretty much gentrified, as is the first block or two west of Classen. The middle still has some issues, but it is truly amazing to see the amount of houses that are being fixed up here all the time, certainly a neighborhood in flux for the better.

We also just bought a rental house that we're fixing up in CTP and are excited about the developments there, especially on the east side. Between the city, Positively Paseo, and private investors, there is a LOT of activity going on there behind the scenes...

[Mike_M]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Great to hear a diverse set of opinions and explanations.

The house we're looking at is at the Indiana intersection a little north of the plaza. It is one of the less gentrified streets but surrounded by the really beautiful ones, so I would imagine that it's on the hit list. For my real estate folks, how do you feel about the home value in that area? Honest truth, we're downsizing to live out our last few childless years in the Core and get a really solid financial foothold before we outgrow the place. Realistically we're looking at 5 years or less. Do you guys see the value really growing in that time for a solid ROI?

[tillyato]

Obviously it depends on how good of a deal you get going in, but we bought our house as the top end of price per square foot in the neighborhood 2 years ago, and there have been at least 5 houses that have sold for more (per sq ft) than we paid within two blocks of us since that time. It's going to be block by block, but generally I think you will see home value appreciation outpacing inflation in the area over the next 5 years, more so than in other parts of the metro. I have also noticed that move-in-ready houses in Gatewood west of Carey Place sell very quickly, many within a day or two of listing.

It comes down to location, and as long as the Plaza District is thriving people will want to live nearby and are willing to pay a premium for that walkability. Of course I have a vested interest in home prices in the neighborhood so feel free to take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[okclee]

I would recommend getting very involved with the Gatewood neighborhood association. Any improvements that can be added (new sidewalks, street lighting, landscaping, Gatewood elementary improvements, etc.)to your neighborhood will only help increase your ROI.

[BBatesokc]

Like already stated, it really depends on what you pay going in and how much you spend improving the house.

When we were looking, some of the houses were a fair price, but many were not. We looked at some homes priced $200,000-$400,000 but they still needed $100,000 or more of improvements over the next 5+ years - meaning we'd never get our money back out in the 1st 10 years.

Personally, I'd buy one that needs a bit of work from someone who wants it gone now. Fix it up, but don't spend a lot of money if you simply plan to resell.

If it's your forever home then go crazy and wait for the neighborhood to catch up. But that's just how I do things.

[soonerguru]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Great to hear a diverse set of opinions and explanations.

The house we're looking at is at the Indiana intersection a little north of the plaza. It is one of the less gentrified streets but surrounded by the really beautiful ones, so I would imagine that it's on the hit list. For my real estate folks, how do you feel about the home value in that area? Honest truth, we're downsizing to live out our last few childless years in the Core and get a really solid financial foothold before we outgrow the place. Realistically we're looking at 5 years or less. Do you guys see the value really growing in that time for a solid ROI?

That's a fantastic spot, in my opinion.

[Bullbear]

I have lived in Crestwood for 10 years now. I love it here and spend the majority of my time in the midtown/Plaza/uptown areas of the city. I was displaced for about 6 months after a house fire while my home was being repaired. the insurance company rented us a place in suburbia until house was finished. I hated every minute of it. I felt so far away from everything. we complained constantly that we were so outside of our hood. I think you will love it. neighborhoods can be very street by street and in 10 years i have seen more and more streets get in better shape. I love our block and our neighbors are all great.

[Pete]

I've been following the housing markets in Gatewood, CTP, Jefferson Park and MP/HH and can say with absolute certainty that prices have gone up pretty dramatically and anything decent gets snapped up much more quickly than just a couple of years ago. And these trends are accelerating.

The longer you wait, the more you are going to pay.

And there are plenty of people buying on the sketchier streets which only means they won't be sketchy for long.


The one exception are houses that are complete disasters; the ones that are basically tear-downs.

[Mike_M]

Looks like you guys weren't lying. The house we were looking at got contracted last night after only 8 days on the market. Oh well, we'll keep our eyes open. This has been awesome information, thanks everyone for their input!

[TexanOkie]

I've lived just south of 16th on Marion (the one-block street in between Blackwelder and McKinley) for 3 years to be close to school (just graduated from OCU Law), and love it. I walked to class most days, even when I had night classes. You quickly learn that there are only a couple of stretches of streets (both in Gatewood and CTP) that you should avoid, and even then it's only at night.

[Pete]

Looks like you guys weren't lying. The house we were looking at got contracted last night after only 8 days on the market. Oh well, we'll keep our eyes open. This has been awesome information, thanks everyone for their input!

That's especially going to happen this time of year, where most people choose to move in the summer.

But still, I've been watching for a while and since the first the year, anything decent gets snapped up within a couple of weeks.

[Richard at Remax]

No kidding. In Dec 2010 I bought my house in edgemere for $147.9/sq foot and sold it in 2 hours last august for $164.93