Kd's Restaurant / Legacy Grill

[Pete]

Finding personnel to carry out a high quality concept seems to be an increasingly major challenge for new restaurants in Oklahoma City. Talent seems to be spread pretty thin - both kitchen staff and front of house.

I've made this point several times because it simply would have to be a huge challenge.

There has been an absolute avalanche of new, locally-run restaurants, bars and hotels in just the last two years. Couple that with nation-leading employment rates and you just have to know that finding good people to do these jobs has got to be a struggle.

The chains have a bit of an advantage in that they have a whole management team and training programs in place. Plus, they can easily move at least managers in from other markets.


This is going to get worse before it gets better as there are still tons of restaurants, bars and hotels in the queue and the pace of expansion only seems to be increasing.

[Urbanized]

I've had a ridiculously difficult time hiring qualified service industry type folks for at least the past two years. Very tough market. And I'm sure in the food industry it's worse do to the nearly daily emergence of new places. That said, HSRG has many of the advantages of chains when it comes to corporate structure and trainers.

I happened to accompany a Brazilian television crew last night during the taping of a travel program (they are following Route 66), and i took them by KD's at one point right around dinner time. There was a line out the door. I think they have been experiencing some overwhelming business, which is probably contributing to spotty service at times when it does happen. On the times when I have been there, service has been of a pretty high quality, though I don't doubt some occasional let downs due to volume.

[Pete]

One other trend...

Hal Smith and some others are starting to lose managers and other staff to their own start-ups.

This is the case at Broadway 10 and Sidecar and I know there are a bunch of other examples I can't think of right now.


Seems like there is a very strong trend towards younger people wanting to do it themselves as soon as they can. The advent of food trucks and various festivals allows for an intermediate step; same can be said of retail via pop-up shops. But it sure helps when you get experience from someplace like HSRG, A Good Egg, Interurban, Deep Fork, etc.

In fact, look at what is happening on 10th: McNellie's, Fassler Hall and Dust Bowl (Elliott Nelson), Ludivine's new concept (Stranger & Johnson), Bleu Garten (Hunter Wheat), Sara Kate Shoppe (Sara Kate Huff), Women's Clothing at 1100 N. Broadway (Ashley Liddell), Broadway 10 & Sidecar (Hal Smith managers). All of these people are in their 20's or early 30's.

Same can be said of many of the places in the Plaza.

[kevinpate]

Jeep's review of KD's was as I feared it might be. There have been enough such reviews, not only of KD's but other new places as well, that I've lost all interest in exploring new places until they have several months to work things out.

And some, not even then. One example. I want to try Vast, if solely for the view, but the price points are not consistent with accepting a low level of service. Coming into OKC primarily to have drinks with a view, when a return trip down 35 is necessary afterwards ... not a good plan.

And sadly, it is not just the new places, and it is not just OKC. Chain or indie, nice eatery or fast food, the quality of service today is in a downward spiral as often as not. In Norman, except for T Bell of all places, if we do take out we don't leave the parking lot without emptying and repacking the sacks or checking the containers. It's long been an issue that a correct order is an exception, not the general rule it once was. Most table service down here is still acceptable, though some just barely so. As a result, we're eating more and more as time goes forward.

[Teo9969]

Jeep's review of KD's was as I feared it might be. There have been enough such reviews, not only of KD's but other new places as well, that I've lost all interest in exploring new places until they have several months to work things out.

And some, not even then. One example. I want to try Vast, if solely for the view, but the price points are not consistent with accepting a low level of service. Coming into OKC primarily to have drinks with a view, when a return trip down 35 is necessary afterwards ... not a good plan.

And sadly, it is not just the new places, and it is not just OKC. Chain or indie, nice eatery or fast food, the quality of service today is in a downward spiral as often as not. In Norman, except for T Bell of all places, if we do take out we don't leave the parking lot without emptying and repacking the sacks or checking the containers. It's long been an issue that a correct order is an exception, not the general rule it once was. Most table service down here is still acceptable, though some just barely so. As a result, we're eating more and more as time goes forward.

Ironically, it's the places that are being opened by local operators that are having the most success with opening at a high quality. Guernsey Park and Kitchen No. 324 and Urban Johnnie are all great examples of the opposite of your concern. These places all opened fantastically. The more corporate places are the ones who seem to be struggling, in spite of the fact that they have corporate manuals, training, and standards that should help things to run smoother.

That's not a hard and fast rule, and there's certainly nothing wrong with waiting, but plenty of places are doing great as soon as they open.

[kevinpate]

I completely agree about Kitchen 324. That shop is a shining example of how to consistently do things right. Whatever team tuck does to train their folk, a bunch of other eateries out there ought to be begging them to operate a training academy, and pay well for the opportunity.

[soonerguru]

I find the service at HSRG joints to be phony and annoying. Multiple server types buzz around you and ask how you're doing, but it you express any displeasure, they just get this blank stare. They really don't care, honestly. It's just this robotic style of communication.

I sincerely hope we get more Good Egg type establishments and fewer HSRG type places. The difference in food quality and genuinely good service is stark.

[Paseofreak]

I would submit to you that the difference between AGEDG and HSG is that selective hiring and transplanting current staff from other concepts results in AGEDG staff actually understanding and caring about the stated goals for the customer experience. Their people are well educated about their job, they are frequently foodies themselves and when something isn't up to snuff they don't have to consult a procedure manual to fix it. It's second nature. Whereas, HSG needs bodies at such a rate that a pulse and passing a cursory background check will do. For these folks, the only incentive is the cash they walk with at the end of the shift. They are force fed voluminous manuals with rules and penalties that de-personalize the dining experience to a one size fits all repeatable process. If something goes awry, they are at a total loss because the manual didn't lay out a script or permission to fix it on their own. I don't mean to pick on HSG at all. They are just the entity under discussion here. This is a common phenomenon when great restaurants try to multiply their efforts using a cookie cutter. Just look at Ruby Tuesday, S&B Burger Joint since expansion beyond the first two, or Chili's. Quality will almost always suffer when you try to synthesize it through a notebook full of rules.

[coov23]

Been to KD's 3 times and haven't had bad service yet. I also get reservations a day, or two, ahead of time. You have to there. Food is great and setting is great.

[shawnw]

Same here, 3 times (including Sunday with my sister from NYC), no issues so far.

[dcsooner]

Very excited about all the new and unique dining options recently opened and pending in OKC. I am planning a trip back home later this summer and intend to spend a couple days in OKC. Look forward to stopping in to many of the new dining options. Really great to see this taking place

[OKC4me]

So Shaq was eating there?

[Jeepnokc]

So Shaq was eating there?

Not sure if he ate or just had drinks. He was sitting behind me in a table at the end of the bar. Walked by me as I was coming out of restroom and I didn't recognize him at first but definitely noticed him as he was a foot taller than my 6'. I sent the pic to Pete to post so maybe he will post if he gets chance.

[Pete]

From Jeepnokc:

[Joe Kimball]

A friend of mine posted a photo on Facebook on the 24th, allegedly of Mr. O'Neal, and he was wearing an identical shirt.

So, even money chance?

[Edgar]

Finding personnel to carry out a high quality concept seems to be an increasingly major challenge for new restaurants in Oklahoma City. Talent seems to be spread pretty thin - both kitchen staff and front of house.

Paying greater than poverty wages would help. A certain "restaurant group" in OKC said to be one squealing loudest about the horrific possibility municipalities could dodge our chamber of commerce legislature and set their own min. wage. How can you expect to present a multiple star dining experience paying TacoBell wages?

[TheTravellers]

Paying greater than poverty wages would help. A certain "restaurant group" in OKC said to be one squealing loudest about the horrific possibility municipalities could dodge our chamber of commerce legislature and set their own min. wage. How can you expect to present a multiple star dining experience paying TacoBell wages?

Jeez, seriously? Does their name come to mind if you say "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"?

[Teo9969]

Paying greater than poverty wages would help. A certain "restaurant group" in OKC said to be one squealing loudest about the horrific possibility municipalities could dodge our chamber of commerce legislature and set their own min. wage. How can you expect to present a multiple star dining experience paying TacoBell wages?

Ummm…because every restaurant in this city pays their servers the same wage…$2.13/hour. Doesn't seem to be a problem for a host of restaurants who provide excellent dining experiences.

[RadicalModerate]

Ummm…because every restaurant in this city pays their servers the same wage…$2.13/hour. Doesn't seem to be a problem for a host of restaurants who provide excellent dining experiences.

Perhaps all of the restaurants in the city need to hire a motivational speaker/morale builder like this to bring up the level of basic service to their patrons?


As for me . . . I will continue to hope for the best, enjoy what I get and tip 20%.
(before taxes)

[Jeepnokc]

Ummm…because every restaurant in this city pays their servers the same wage…$2.13/hour. Doesn't seem to be a problem for a host of restaurants who provide excellent dining experiences.

Very true. Consider also the higher the prices, the more they make as the tip is based on what they sell. In our case, we were at the table approximately one hour after she made contact with us. Due to the bad service, I tipped her 15% of the total before the steak was taken off so the tip was approx. $18.00. Add the 18 to the 2.13 hour equals 20.13 hour. She probably had to tip out 2.5% of her sales so let's say $3 which leaves her making about $17.50 per hour and I was just one table. More than likely, she had four tables. Thus, on any busy night, she should be pulling 40-80 per hour. There may be a slow hour she she comes on and usually there is about an hour of work after the shift cleaning and restocking condiments, etc. With as busy as KD's is and the higher per person average (PPA) of the checks, every server should be earning far more than the "taco Bell" employee.

[Teo9969]

Very true. Consider also the higher the prices, the more they make as the tip is based on what they sell. In our case, we were at the table approximately one hour after she made contact with us. Due to the bad service, I tipped her 15% of the total before the steak was taken off so the tip was approx. $18.00. Add the 18 to the 2.13 hour equals 20.13 hour. She probably had to tip out 2.5% of her sales so let's say $3 which leaves her making about $17.50 per hour and I was just one table. More than likely, she had four tables. Thus, on any busy night, she should be pulling 40-80 per hour. There may be a slow hour she she comes on and usually there is about an hour of work after the shift cleaning and restocking condiments, etc. With as busy as KD's is and the higher per person average (PPA) of the checks, every server should be earning far more than the "taco Bell" employee.

HSRG, I believe, is 3.5% of the post-tax total. $1000 in sales = $35 tip-out.

Generally you don't get much business in the first hour or hour and a half you're in a restaurant, and like you said, there are sometimes slow hours and post-table work to do.

Most places in the city, a regular dinner shift looks something like:

Arrive at 4/4:30
1 or 2 tables between 4:30 and 7
4 to 8 tables between 7 and 9
1 or 2 tables after 9
Close down, and leave around 10:30/11

Sales between $600 and $1000 (including tax), and you tip-out generally 3% on that amount. So if you average x% on the total with tax you make:

15% you walk with $72 to $120
17.5% you walk with $87 to $145
20% you walk with $102 to $170

At most places, best case scenario is highly improbable Sunday through Thursday, but literally, there are 1,000 variable that go into it. Another factor is that when things are "dead", people get cut/sent home super early without any chance to make substantive money, if any at all.

I'd guess that the average OKC server makes between $10 and $20/hour, but they tend to work only 25 to 35 hours per week.

[Edgar]

All taxpayers subsidise the restaurant industries poverty wages, and when a petition drive in OKC to locally raise the min wage looked to be gaining mo a "restaurant group" in OKC threw a fit and got their way with our patsy lege. Do with that info what you wish. Know I will. No more Sun brunches at Lakeside.

[Teo9969]

Oh yes…HSRG must have swayed the entire legislature all by themselves.

You're kidding me right? You think HSRG was the only one who made a big deal out of everything?

[kevinpate]

Edgar, you appear to be as misinformed on the min. wage legislation preemption as you were the past mayoral race.

Perhaps consider some research from sources other than the ones you have been relying upon?

At best that eatery group would be a small insignificant voice amongst far larger employers.

[Jeepnokc]

HSRG, I believe, is 3.5% of the post-tax total. $1000 in sales = $35 tip-out.

Generally you don't get much business in the first hour or hour and a half you're in a restaurant, and like you said, there are sometimes slow hours and post-table work to do.

Most places in the city, a regular dinner shift looks something like:

Arrive at 4/4:30
1 or 2 tables between 4:30 and 7
4 to 8 tables between 7 and 9
1 or 2 tables after 9
Close down, and leave around 10:30/11

Sales between $600 and $1000 (including tax), and you tip-out generally 3% on that amount. So if you average x% on the total with tax you make:

15% you walk with $72 to $120
17.5% you walk with $87 to $145
20% you walk with $102 to $170

At most places, best case scenario is highly improbable Sunday through Thursday, but literally, there are 1,000 variable that go into it. Another factor is that when things are "dead", people get cut/sent home super early without any chance to make substantive money, if any at all.

I'd guess that the average OKC server makes between $10 and $20/hour, but they tend to work only 25 to 35 hours per week.

I think that is a good average overall but I think it will be higher somewhere like this. I averaged $12-15 hour twenty years ago waiting tables at Chilis on S. Meridian and our PPA was about $11-12. Hopefully they have good management that knows how to schedule in so you don't have excessive staff during slow times.

Also, I imagine at KD's they are running 1000-1500 per shift on weekends.