Top five things you think are holding OKC back...

[warreng88]

What are the top five things you think are holding OKC back from being a truly first class city?

Here is mine:

1. Schools. If this improves, people won't flock to burbs as much and there will be more criticaly mass in the innercore.
2. Public transit. I have tried to figure out how to take the bus from my house to work, both of which are close to the bus stops. If we can figure out a better bus system, coupled with a streetcar system and a commuter rail to the burbs, it will be easier for residents to get around without a car.
3. Liquor laws. Just the simple ability to sell wine and beer in grocery stores would improve our grocery options.
4. Vacant property registry. Would hold property owners accountable for the condition of their properties.
5. Sidewalks. Having a better, safer option to get around the city on foot would increase activity which could make people in better health.

Any others I am leaving out?

[Easy180]

Couple more things would be our lovely weather and lack of scenery

[warreng88]

Couple more things would be our lovely weather and lack of scenery

I should have said top five things we can control...

[Easy180]

I should have said top five things we can control...

Aha. Then I will go with our image since most folks still think we all ride horses

[Dennis Heaton]

What are the top five things you think are holding OKC back from being a truly first class city?

Here is mine:

1. Schools. If this improves, people won't flock to burbs as much and there will be more criticaly mass in the innercore.
2. Public transit. I have tried to figure out how to take the bus from my house to work, both of which are close to the bus stops. If we can figure out a better bus system, coupled with a streetcar system and a commuter rail to the burbs, it will be easier for residents to get around without a car.
3. Liquor laws. Just the simple ability to sell wine and beer in grocery stores would improve our grocery options.
4. Vacant property registry. Would hold property owners accountable for the condition of their properties.
5. Sidewalks. Having a better, safer option to get around the city on foot would increase activity which could make people in better health.

Any others I am leaving out?

You sure covered MY 5...uncanny! Except, on my list I would eliminate No. 3; move No. 5 up to No.3; move No. 4 down to No. 5; and add a new No.4 "Build more public basketball courts, volleyball courts, tennis courts and softball fields (especially in far NW OKC).

[oklip955]

Hey, some of us still ride horses.

[Snowman]

Hey, some of us still ride horses.

Out of state, I was asked it it was still our primary means of transportation (they seemed totally serious)

[adaniel]

Not disagreeing with your list, but I'm not sure those things are holding OKC back per say.

1. Schools. If this improves, people won't flock to burbs as much and there will be more criticaly mass in the innercore.

OKCPS definitely has steep challenges and needs improvement, but most urban school districts are challenged. I wouldn't consider schools in DC, NYC, or SF proper good and yet those cities are experiencing record growth. With that in mind OKCPS makes due with what they have and it's not the disaster some make it out to be. Also keep in mind only about 33% of households in the US actually have school aged children so for a lot of people rightly or wrongly schools don't matter

2. Public transit. I have tried to figure out how to take the bus from my house to work, both of which are close to the bus stops. If we can figure out a better bus system, coupled with a streetcar system and a commuter rail to the burbs, it will be easier for residents to get around without a car.

Definitely won't disagree with this.

3. Liquor laws. Just the simple ability to sell wine and beer in grocery stores would improve our grocery options.

Liquor laws get scapegoated on here when several states have similar blue laws on the books. Getting decent grocery stores has been a challenge for the same reason getting decent retail has been a challenge. We are an unproven market that is hard to analyze due to our sprawl. This is changing though.

4. Vacant property registry. Would hold property owners accountable for the condition of their properties.

Agree, and it's a shame that the do gooders at the state capitol thought otherwise. I really believe the new law the state passed is unconstitutional and the city should fight it but that's just me.

5. Sidewalks. Having a better, safer option to get around the city on foot would increase activity which could make people in better health.

Agree, and the bond measure is merely a down payment on what is really needed. Also, I was horrified to go to a new neighborhood in far NW OKC this winter and there were NO SIDEWALKS! What happened to the city requiring these now??

IMO this city isn't doing too bad, but the biggest thing holding the city back occupy the big domed building at 2300 N Lincoln. I've said it before but OKC will eventually hit a ceiling so long as the state government is behaving the way it is. This session has illustrated it more than any other. Look at the biggest challenges in this city right now...the boulevard fiasco, the even worse AICC fiasco, the vacant property registry. They all are being fumbled by the state.

I mean, I really have to wonder does Mary Fallin and the lawmakers in the legislature actually believe they are doing a good job? It's beyond high time for the city to start getting tough with the state, and the first thing they can do is seize the land AICC is on if the legislature continues to dither like it is. Also, I think that Mick Cornett and the council really need to look into establishing a committee with lawmakers that represent OKC and make it clear to them the city's goals and needs. Otherwise IMO this city should consider itself "on its own" and proceed with projects assuming it will get no help from the state.

[zookeeper]

Not disagreeing with your list, but I'm not sure those things are holding OKC back per say.

Basically all of his post (deleted here)

Very well said and I couldn't agree more. As long as the priority at the state level is so grossly tilted as shown by this news today, Oklahoma will continue to rank near the bottom of critical lists that will keep business away. But as for local energy companies to use as its profit playground, it's a great state - they own it.

[Dennis Heaton]

"I mean, I really have to wonder does Mary Fallin and the lawmakers in the legislature actually believe they are doing a good job? It's beyond high time for the city to start getting tough with the state, and the first thing they can do is seize the land AICC is on if the legislature continues to dither like it is. Also, I think that Mick Cornett and the council really need to look into establishing a committee with lawmakers that represent OKC and make it clear to them the city's goals and needs. Otherwise IMO this city should consider itself "on its own" and proceed with projects assuming it will get no help from the state." (zookeeper)

Right on!!!!!

[bchris02]

1. Political climate. A lot of states lean right but few are as extreme or radical as Oklahoma. It doesn't help that OKC and Tulsa are more in harmony with rural Oklahoma than most urban areas are with their states' rural areas. There isn't a real liberal voice in Oklahoma, period. At least Texas has Austin and parts of Dallas and Houston. Arkansas has Fayetteville and Little Rock. North Carolina's cities are strongly liberal. Kansas has Lawrence. Oklahoma doesn't have anywhere to really escape the conservatism. Thanks to the state politicians and the things they say on a regular basis, if I were a racial minority or LGBT, I would definitely think twice about relocating here from out of state. The idiocy at the state capitol is simply mindnumbing and they seem to be working against OKC every step of the way. Right now, 23rd and Lincoln is the biggest thing holding this city back and could ultimately unravel the economic boom if things continue on their present course. I agree with the poster that OKC needs to figure out a way to have its interests better represented in the state legislature.

2. Liquor laws. Yes, the liquor laws get scapegoated for certain quality of life issues in OKC probably more than they should. However, the laws here are probably the second most restrictive in the nation and really do negatively affect quality of life. I would be fine with the laws if liquor stores could stay open until 10PM and they could sell cold beer, but the current almost prohibition era system needs to go yesterday, yet it will not because of a special interest alliance between the teetotaling religious right, MADD groups, and liquor distributors. As for grocery stores, yes other states with restrictive laws have better grocery stores, but when you combine the liquor laws with other factors that may scare them away from Oklahoma it makes more sense. I have no doubts downtown could certainly support a full service grocery store even today if they could sell real beer and wine. It would be tremendously profitable. The Harris Teeter in downtown Charlotte is actually primarily a beer/wine store and a grocery store second, yet they still have a full line and everybody benefits. In addition, OKC has far fewer grocery stores per capita than cities in states with less restrictive laws. There are populated, even upscale parts of the metro that are either food deserts or only have easy access to a very poor, run down grocery. There is some truth in the thinking that liquor laws are keeping good grocery stores out but that isn't the only factor.

3. Development standards. The very low to non-existent standards here are responsible for the overall aesthetic ugliness throughout most of the metro. OKC doesn't have the benefit of huge trees and lush fauna to mask the ugliness so it needs to make up for it with stricture building codes. I know OKCTalk primarily favors the urban core, but this is an area where the suburbs need to improve as well. Other cities have much nicer-looking suburban areas than OKC does because there are certain things they are required to do, such as develop to a specific code appropriate to the neighborhood, integrate development with the natural surroundings, build sidewalks, etc, etc, etc. As for the core, Lower Bricktown never should have happened the way it did and was a catastrophic waste of an opportunity thanks to low standards and lack of vision. Standards and building codes need to be established from the start based on the vision for a specific neighborhood.

4. Sprawl/Patchwork neighborhoods. OKC is unique in that the entire city is a patchwork of low income and high income neighborhoods. Cities like Tulsa and Dallas have their high-income neighborhoods concentrated in a specific area. OKC doesn't really have that. This patchwork can partially be blamed on the "throw away development" cycle that seems to be the way of life here. After 10-20 years a newly-built tract house neighborhood will start ageing so people just abandon it and move farther out. Home values will plummet and the new people moving in won't take care of the neighborhood. Therefore, was a great neighborhood 20 years ago then goes to crap. Think Bethany/Warr Acres, north Moore, and much of Midwest City and Del City. Those areas were actually decent to nice in the '90s but today aren't so much. Because of sprawl and income density, OKC looks far worse than it is on paper to outside investors who don't understand the market and don't want to take the time to learn about it so they just write it off. Because of that, the city seems to be a step behind most others its size across the nation. It's going to take out of state money to bring some of the things to town that many OKCitians would like to see here.

5. Stereotypes/Image/inferiority complex. The Thunder has helped with this, but most people in other states, especially on the coasts, still do not see or acknowledge OKC as a real city. At best people say this place is boring, backwards, and redneck. At worst people ask things like "Do people still ride horses there?" or "Do they have electricity in OKC?" Many people who live here, even born and raised also sometimes doubt this city and underestimate what it's capable of. Most people have no idea a neighborhood like Deep Deuce exists here. I think this is the most difficult negative to fix, but it should fix itself if the four things I mentioned above see improvement.

Honorable mention: Tulsa. Tulsa sometimes gets things that should and would otherwise go to OKC. Concerts and some retail are the first things that come to mind. I've said this before but I think OKC would fare better if Tulsa was either 50 miles closer or 50 miles farther. If it were closer, the two cities could work together the way Dallas and Fort Worth do rather than being bitter rivals. If they were farther, I don't think it would be as much of a factor in what does or does not come to OKC. What should happen is OKC and Tulsa should work together, especially in the state legislature to, to push for change and urban interests.

[ljbab728]

1. State legislature
2. State legislature
3. State legislature
4. State legislature
5. State legislature.

[BG918]

What should happen is OKC and Tulsa should work together, especially in the state legislature to, to push for change and urban interests.

Totally agree, but some of the worst legislators are from the two metros. There needs to be a more progressive voice pushing an urban agenda that will benefit metro OKC and Tulsa where 2/3 of the state live.

[mugofbeer]

What are the top five things you think are holding OKC back from being a truly first class city?

Here is mine:

1. Schools. If this improves, people won't flock to burbs as much and there will be more criticaly mass in the innercore.
2. Public transit. I have tried to figure out how to take the bus from my house to work, both of which are close to the bus stops. If we can figure out a better bus system, coupled with a streetcar system and a commuter rail to the burbs, it will be easier for residents to get around without a car.
3. Liquor laws. Just the simple ability to sell wine and beer in grocery stores would improve our grocery options.
4. Vacant property registry. Would hold property owners accountable for the condition of their properties.
5. Sidewalks. Having a better, safer option to get around the city on foot would increase activity which could make people in better health.

Any others I am leaving out?

I will agree with Schools and the Vacant Property issue. After living out of Oklahoma for many years now, you all put far to much weight on liquor laws. Sidewalks could be better in some locations, too. When I visit back in OKC, I see the unfortunate unbridled commercial development along every single flipping busy street and streetcorner. In some parts of town a significant percentage of them are vacant, becoming quite run-down and in need of elimination. The equally unfortunate, but convenient grid pattern provides endless horizons of shopping centers, fast food restaurant's and discount auto repair shops instead of occasional curves where a tree or two might be seen instead of neon signs.

I will agree with some of you on here who are to-the-death proponents of walkability......to a certain extent. Central Business Districts should be walkable and urban and a large chunk of the older parts of town need to be densely populated and urbanely walkable. However, not everything needs to be. People in the west enjoy open spaces, greenery and blue skies, too.

Finally, what OKC is missing are deep-pockets local real estate developers who are urban developers. What I am seeing in amazement in Denver are the incredible RE-developments of older, decaying projects. I've posted on here before about the 1960's-70's shopping malls that have been transformed into wonderful outdoor, mixed use projects. Shepherd Mall is dying for such a redevelopment. I see the new construction around the University of Denver and wonder why some of the mid-rise multi-family projects being built around there wouldn't also be suitable around OCU.

Downtown Denver is one of the most successful CBD's anywhere in the country. It is absolutely booming and is the most desireable place to live for the 20-30's crowd and getting more popular for empty-nesters. It is clean and relatively safe and has a million things to do (besides smoking pot). Compared to other successful downtowns of cities such as Dallas and Houston, Denver is far and away more successful and livable. OKC should look to Denver as the trend setter and for examples of how to do things right. Dallas is great with the corporate relo's but Denver is the livable city. IMHO

[Plutonic Panda]

Realistically, it seems that we've had more than one major relocation that decided Dallas over OKC because of our airport.

[ljbab728]

Realistically, it seems that we've had more than one major relocation that decided Dallas over OKC because of our airport.

Well that is one thing that will never realistically change.

[MWCGuy]

1. Equal investment in all areas of the city not just the areas where the rich people and their children play.
2. Lack of pride from every citizen. When your own people bash the city how can you expect to have a positive image? New York City dwellers love their city good and bad. We should have the same appreciation for ours.
3. The need to be like (Insert City Here). We need to develop our own identity and present our selves in our own way. Being like everyone else is not the answer.
4. The people of Oklahoma need to let go of all the stupid little issues that divide everywhere else.
5. The politicians. We need more people like Mick Cornett and less people like Sally Kern.

[zookeeper]

1. Equal investment in all areas of the city not just the areas where the rich people and their children play.
2. Lack of pride from every citizen. When your own people bash the city how can you expect to have a positive image? New York City dwellers love their city good and bad. We should have the same appreciation for ours.
3. The need to be like (Insert City Here). We need to develop our own identity and present our selves in our own way. Being like everyone else is not the answer.
4. The people of Oklahoma need to let go of all the stupid little issues that divide everywhere else.
5. The politicians. We need more people like Mick Cornett and less people like Sally Kern.

These are excellent points.

[Dennis Heaton]

What are the top five things you think are holding OKC back from being a truly first class city?

Here is mine:

1. Schools. If this improves, people won't flock to burbs as much and there will be more criticaly mass in the innercore.
2. Public transit. I have tried to figure out how to take the bus from my house to work, both of which are close to the bus stops. If we can figure out a better bus system, coupled with a streetcar system and a commuter rail to the burbs, it will be easier for residents to get around without a car.
3. Liquor laws. Just the simple ability to sell wine and beer in grocery stores would improve our grocery options.
4. Vacant property registry. Would hold property owners accountable for the condition of their properties.
5. Sidewalks. Having a better, safer option to get around the city on foot would increase activity which could make people in better health.

Any others I am leaving out?

I'd like to nominate a property for the "Vacant Property Registry." It's right behind my favorite convenience store on Hefner and Council....

Squeaky Clean Car Wash at 10912 N. Council Rd.

[JAW]

1) More Fortune 500 companies. We need more economic power brokers that command influence internationally. This will necessarily attract talent and accrue resources (tax revenues) to handle many other civic problems.

2) Light rail and street car. Light rail across the suburbs (even across the state) will help connect downtowns and amenities regionally and statewide without relying on a car. This will a) help make urban neighborhoods more viable living options and thus more profitable to encourage future development along urban lines and b) help attract and reward tourists, giving them the option to visit multiple high points around the metro area without use of a car.

3) Multiple "signature" artifacts that distinguish OKC from other cities and identify with the city. We do have one or two (such as the bombing memorial, which is a bittersweet and tragic signature artifact), but we need many more in order to overcompensate for the lack of mountains and beaches. The Devon tower is awesome, grateful to have it, hope we have more similar structures built--but it's not really distinct compared to any number of tall skyscrapers. We don't need an Alamo or a Gateway Arch, we need about three Alamos and three Gateway arches. These are the type of things that attract tourists, which in turn help change the image of OKC outside of the metro area, which in turn market OKC as a possible destination to live or to relocate a corporation. And all of this in turn helps change the attitude of locals to their own city. Artifacts that citizens of OKC can take pride in as being unique and visible. Call it pretentious, but it's true. In addition to a competed AICC museum, in addition to the new Riversport district, in addition to the new Central Park, we need the Turbinomic Tower, an indoor 400 ft snow ski tower, and a bison habitat near downtown OKC bracketed by urban neighborhoods, all of these would help. The former three help us keep pace with the Indianapolis' and Kansas Citys of the world--the latter three leapfrog us above them. We need to see multiple big ideas implemented here in addition to the functional improvements of basic civic life.

4) STEM funding (at high school and collegiate level), STEM post-graduate degreed work force, and this know how integrated into OKC business life. You want economic growth, have a populace degreed in Science, Technology, Engineering, Math, fused with Business market applications. I wish there was a high quality and respected university downtown that specialized in the fields that fuel innovation and growth. This would have the added benefit of raising the population density downtown and create a market for practical consumption in an urban environment. I don't know the feasibility of creating a new university from scratch--particularly if you're trying to build a great one with immediate respect in the market--but a 10,000 person student body of STEM/Business double majors (and graduate students) within walking distance of the CBD would attract a lot of companies and prompt venture capital for new firms based on this human capital.

5) A second major pro team. MLS would be good, but I mean NFL, MLB, or NHL. Just as there is a gulf between not having a major pro team and having one pro team, there is a rather sizable gulf between having one pro team and two pro teams. This changes the way externals view the city if it can support two or more major franchises, and removes the "small market" or "mid major" label from the metro. I would love it if the Tampa Bay Lightning relocated to OKC, so we'd have the OKC Thunder and OKC Lightning playing side by side.

[bchris02]

Totally agree, but some of the worst legislators are from the two metros. There needs to be a more progressive voice pushing an urban agenda that will benefit metro OKC and Tulsa where 2/3 of the state live.

I agree. However, that's where the problem comes into play though of Oklahoma's cities being more rural minded than most cities are compared to their states. There is a sharp contrast politically between Kansas City and the state of Kansas, Little Rock and rural Arkansas, or Austin and the state of Texas. There really isn't that much of a difference between Oklahoma City and rural Oklahoma when it comes to politics.

[lasomeday]

We have made miles of progress in the last 15 years. We should be proud of what our city has done to come as far as it has in such a short time period compared to other cities. To build OKC we need to make sure all of our smaller towns in Oklahoma have growth. The small towns feed the cities. So, making sure our state has laws that encourage small town revitalization of historic buildings is crucial in keeping small towns alive. Most of our tourists are from small towns, so keeping them thriving helps us thrive.


1. Our closeness to Texas..... They have drained our workforce and smartest for years and will always get a lot of them. We can't change our location... we just need to grow our own unique identity to have people in Kansas, Texas (panhandle not pushy Dallas or Houston people), and Arkansas want to move here.

2. State legislature is huge, we are finally pro business. For 50 years we have pushed companies away. Simplifying our tax code and other laws will make it easier to do business in Oklahoma. I hope that we finally see that. Federally we need to simplify it as well. Have a tax code that is the same for all people and businesses. Making massive companies pay their 20% the same as everyone else will actually increase the tax revenue.

3. Zoning and city plan.... we have allowed our city to sprawl and have bad development. We need to instill better urban and community enhancing zoning as well as better code for architectural and landscape design. Incorporating bike and pedestrian friendly codes for all new roads, and charging higher use fees by mile for sprawling development to slow it down. Encourage more walkable/bikeable areas that will have staying power for 50 years.

4. Our schools need to be changed.... this is an national problem that hits locally. We need to get the unions out of our schools and make teachers accountable for their work. We should look at what other countries are doing to have better schools than us. Part of our problem is our government and part is parents that don't take responsibility for their kids. The main problem is how we teach our kids. Teachers should be rewarded for doing great not held back by the masses of the union. Schools should be paid more for having great students graduate than getting paid more for having more students on social government funded programs.

5. Small businesses. Every city that I love is growing and thriving because of small businesses. We need to have more ways to encourage small business. The state and city are happy when Continental moves to town, but what about Grateful Bean coffee shop or Ruby's flower shop. Which one makes you happier? Which one adds to the city. I know we need both, the state already does a lot for big business... but its the small businesses that makes cities great in my point of view. Having Keep it Local and other small local business supporters is crucial to a great city.

[Pete]

1. Public Health. Lack of recreation, public transportation, high smoking rates, high obesity rates... This is something that can and needs to change. I just posted that OKC ranks #48 out of the top 50 MSA's in public health. MAPS 4 should be all about public transportation, recreation and sidewalks/trails.

2. Blind Boosterism. Everything that is happening in OKC is SO great!! Yes, many things are but there are still lots of issues (see #1) and things we do completely half-arsed. It's great that people are enthusiastic but there is often no room for constructive criticism or even perspective.

3. Old Boys Club. It's still very much alive in OKC. If you aren't aligned with a small number of power brokers, it's very easy to be squeezed out. The Chamber, the Oklahoman and a handful of plutocrats still have far too much influence.

4. Lack of Unique Identity. Almost everything that has been done and is planning to be done is simply playing catch-up with other cities. The few things that are truly unique about OKC -- the western heritage, Native Americans, how the land was settled, Stage Center, even the Co-op and Stockyards -- are generally seen as things to cover up rather than embrace.

5. Education. Oklahoma needs at least one outstanding university and ideally both OU and OSU would be much, much better than they are now. They are both improving but the state needs to invest in higher education, not be constantly cutting, especially at times of great prosperity.

[PennyQuilts]

Respectfully, IMO, the title of this thread would better reflect reality if instead of listing five things holding back the city, it was five things the city could impove. Ain't nothing holding back this city, these days - it is more a question of slowing it down, at best. That being said, I agree we could improve in many of the areas suggested. And I think we will.

[Bunty]

I mean, I really have to wonder does Mary Fallin and the lawmakers in the legislature actually believe they are doing a good job?

IF voters vote them in again, especially big time, of course, they're gonna end up believing they have been doing a heck of a damned good job at governing and serving the people. No wonder, I love to say, "Don't vote. It only encourages them, especially when the incumbents win."