Crossroads Mall

[writerranger]

You may be on to something. Close the mall and turn it into the worlds largest legal brothal with the anchor stores being adult video stores and strip clubs. "yeah, that's the ticket." (quote from John Lovitz)

Mr. Anderson, That was a great movie. With this thread we could also say:

"The TRAIN moves ----- NOT THE MALL!"

----------

[mranderson]

Mr. Anderson, That was a great movie. With this thread we could also say:

"The TRAIN moves ----- NOT THE MALL!"

----------

Please explain your quote. It makes no sense.

[writerranger]

Please explain your quote. It makes no sense.

It makes sense if you were talking about the same movie I was.

I thought your John Lovitz quote was from the movie, "A League Of Their Own." In that movie, Lovitz is having a hard time getting Gina Davis on the train at the train station - as she and her dad are having a hard time saying goodbye. Finally, Lovitz says, "Okay, you see, it's like this: "The TRAIN moves NOT THE STATION!"

I thought your Lovitz quote was from the same movie, so I took this other quote and, thinking of this thread...........never mind.

---------------------------------

[mranderson]

I makes sense if you were talking about the same movie I was.

I thought your John Lovitz quote was from the movie, "A League Of Their Own." In that movie, Lovitz is having a hard time getting Gina Davis on the train at the train station - as she and her dad are having a hard time saying goodbye. Finally, Lovitz says, "Okay, you see, it's like this: "The TRAIN moves NOT THE STATION!"

I thought your Lovitz quote was from the same movie, so I took this other quote and, thinking of this thread...........never mind.

---------------------------------

No. One of the characters John played on "Saturday Night Live" said it.

[writerranger]

No. One of the characters John played on "Saturday Night Live" said it.

Of course. You're right. The Lovitz scene at the train station in "A League of Their Own" is a classic though.

Oooookay.......back to topic. Sorry.

--------------------------

[BG918]

A good example of turning a "dead mall" into a lifestyle center is Villa Italia mall in Lakewood, a suburb of Denver. The typical suburban indoor mall with anchor stores and smaller stores/food court in between surrounded by a sea of parking, just like Crossroads:



With some private investment though that eyesore was turned into an outdoor "town center" that has been successful because they integrated residential and office space into the overall design and consolidated parking areas making the former mall site a walkable place:



The same could be done to Crossroads and its success would be guaranteed if the overall plan included a commuter rail stop. Norman/south Moore will have University North Park and Sooner Mall, people in south OKC/north Moore/Midwest City/Shawnee would support an improved Crossroads.

[Pete]

Mall at a Crossroads
By Chris Brawley Morgan
The Oklahoman

Crossroads Mall opened in 1974 in south Oklahoma City with a splash that nearly matched its mammoth size.

Stretching across 1.1 million square feet, Crossroads immediately became one of the 10 largest malls in the United States, a fact celebrated during the mall’s weeklong inauguration ceremonies.

Crossroads is the namesake of its bustling neighbor — the intersection of Interstates 35 and 240. Today the mall is at another kind of crossroads as well, as its managers regularly battle store vacancies, looming road construction and evolving shopping-center trends that seem to leave enclosed malls out of the loop.

In fact, two nearby retail developments under construction, Shops at Moore and Town Plaza Center in Midwest City, will feature J.C. Penney Co. Inc. department stores. In between them sits Crossroads with a J.C. Penney anchor store.

Shops at Moore is about a 10-minute drive from Crossroads on Interstate 35. Developer Burk Collins is not in the least bit concerned about the proximity.

“We don’t consider them a threat at all. Ten years ago, yes,” Collins said.

In general, the Dallas developer dismisses enclosed malls. “They are just a dinosaur waiting to fall into a tar pit.”

Competition a concern
Christi Moore, Crossroads’ senior marketing manager, has this to say: “Always, other competition in our trade area is a concern. We are continuously dealing with that. Dealing with the Wal-Marts. Strip center competition does continue to nibble at our customer base.”

Nationwide, only one enclosed mall was built this year — the Mall at Turtle Creek in Jonesboro, Ark. — and none are scheduled to be built in the next two years, according to International Council of Shopping Centers.

“They don’t build them like this anymore,” Moore said. “That is part of the challenge The store spaces are so large. A quick look around Crossroads reveals that it is not the same mall with the same stores. “This is not just a cookie-cutter type of center,” Crossroads general manager Jim Swenson said.

Crossroads is home to the usual national retailers. There’s American Eagle Outfitters, Victoria’s Secret, Waldenbooks and Bath & Body Works.

About 20 percent of the stores are locally or regionally owned. So there’s also Shelley Wong’s Things, Singers Choice Karaoke and Laughing Fish, which sells formal dresses for females of all ages. Eargasm specializes in urban music and VUKA offers collectable knives, nunchucks and paint guns proportioned to look like automatic weapons.

Children have to sign a form that they won’t play with their VUKA purchases while they are still in the mall, Moore said.

Jake Dollarhide is a retail analyst, chief executive officer of the Tulsa-based Longbow Asset Management Co. and — on occasion — Crossroads shopper. “Crossroads has not kept up with the times and doesn’t have an attractive model to keep, attract and retain their national tenants.

“Great malls cannot rest on their laurels.”

What is most crippling to the morale of both mall customers and retailers, however, are vacancies, Dollarhide said.

“You never want to see that space darkened,” Dollarhide said.

In early fall, more than 25 stores in Crossroads were vacant. About half of those appear to have been filled, some with holiday venues. In all, Crossroads is comprised of 140 stores. Moore said the mall is essentially full during the holiday season.

All four anchor positions are filled. Besides J.C. Penney, Crossroads anchor stores are Dillard’s and Macy’s. Montgomery Ward’s departure in 2001 left an anchor vacancy for several years, but that space is now filled with Steve and Barry’s University Sportswear.

Originating at the University of Pennsylvania, Steve and Barry’s is a rapidly expanding national chain offering casual clothes at low prices. Most items in the Crossroads store cost less than $10. Moore said Steve and Barry’s, the only one in Oklahoma City, has been a good fit for the mall.

Uncertain road ahead
Crossroad’s connection to two major interstates has been one of its greatest assets, Moore said. Now it may be a problem.

In 2009, the Oklahoma Transportation Department plans to begin an $88 million project rebuilding the interchange between the two interstates, partly because of the earlier widening of Interstate 35, said David Meuser, a department spokesman.

One of the first steps was supposed to be the closure of Pole Road, which leads to Crossroads. “With its proximity to the railroad tracks and I-35, we were concerned that we couldn’t safely keep that exit,” Meuser said.

Closing Pole Road, however, would mean Crossroads customers would have to travel about a half mile out of their way to get to the mall, Moore said.

Moore said, “We decided to take them on. We waged a campaign against that plan.”

State Sen. Debbe Leftwich, D-Oklahoma City, helped with that campaign. Leftwich’s district is next to Crossroads.

“We thought the closing of Pole Road was not in the south side’s best interests,” Leftwich said. “Everybody in my district shops there.”

In addition, she said, “there’s a lot of money being pumped into the local economy.”

In 2004, Crossroads’ total sales reached $117 million. During the same year, the mall paid $10 million in state sales tax, Leftwich said.

Today, Pole Road remains open. “Having studied the issue after public input, we found we were able to make that happen,” Meuser said.

However, the bulk of the project still is scheduled, a fact which causes mall managers some dread, Moore said.

“We just feel very cautious about the whole thing. We know it won’t affect access to the mall for the entire eight years,” Moore said.

Leftwich still has her concerns. “I’d like to see that mall thrive. It seems like they are still struggling out there.”

No updates planned
The Macerich Co., a national real estate investment trust, has owned Crossroads Mall since 1994.

Macerich generates $417 per square foot across 76 shopping centers, including 10 upscale operations in Arizona and California, according to its 2005 annual report.

Moore said she doesn’t know of a plan to update Crossroads, which The Oklahoman originally called “the most magnificent enclosed and air-conditioned shopping mall in the Southwest.”

Rebecca Stenholm, Macerich spokeswoman, said, “We continue to look at every center on an ongoing basis.”

Her company also does not provide specific information about leases, including the J.C. Penney in Crossroads, Stenholm said.

Macerich did spend about $1 million on Crossroads in 2003 — after manager Swenson and Moore launched a lobbying campaign.

“We are not bold or aggressive people, but, at one point, we went with our PowerPoint and crashed a budget meeting in Dallas,” Moore said.

The ramps in the central atrium — which made a dramatic visual statement — had become an albatross, Swenson said.

Moore said the ramps were so steep they were not compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act, which went into effect after Crossroads was built. The only elevators were in the department stores.

So the ramps were removed and a carousal, playground equipment and glass elevator were installed.

In the end, Crossroads is about more than shopping, Moore said.

With its spacious central atrium, the mall becomes temperature-controlled stage for local dance schools, a gallery for local artists and a performance hall for local choirs, Moore said. “We want to be the gathering place in the community.”

[Deni]

I owned a hair salon in Crossroads in the early 90's. It was doing very well until the management there decided to raise our rent. We were paying a reasonable 1800.00 a month then we got a letter that we were goingto be charged 3500.00 a month almost double. I decided then and there I would sale the salon and reopen it in my home town. I made a good choice. Have you been to crossroads lately? The salon that I owned has not changed since we sold it. They have not done a thing to remodel it. I have been considering going back and seeing if it was for sale again and rebuying it. I have not looked into it much but really thinking about it.

[rxis]

i know a couple of retailers who left Crossroads due to rent increases. One of the retailers only continue to have a shop there for strategic reasons; not because that store directly produces revenue.

[jbrown84]

Sure doesn't seem like they're in a place to be raising the rent.

[SoonerDave]

In the midst of all this discussion about how Crossroads has turned into a gangsta training camp and anyone who goes in there risks life and limb, and how its death is inevitable, I'd like to try and reframe the discussion with a bit less emotion.

My son and I went to Crossroads on Saturday for a bunch of Christmas shopping - and you know what? A few thousand other people did, too. If you've been served this image of Crossroads as a desolate, semi-abandoned concrete wasteland, with snipers hiding behind every unrented stored, please let me disabuse you of that notion. It simply isn't true.

The center court was bustling with kids (none of whom was packing heat) riding the huge carousel that was put up a couple of years ago, while other families (also none of whom was packing heat) were watching their kids on the indoor playground on the east end of the court. We waited, waited, waited a checkout lines at more than a few stores, and the "beep-beep-beep-kaching" of cash registers was heard echoing through the halls. I didn't hear one gunshot!

I was able to visit three major department stores, two national jewelry stores, a bookstore (the ONLY one on the south side of OKC, but that's a different rant), a Radio Shack, and have my pick of a half-dozen places to eat lunch. And neither I nor my ten-year-old son were accosted, molested, shot, mugged, or threatened even once. The closest thing to an incident arose when some kid insisted he had given me a twenty when he had given me a five; turns out he was right - and he was my own kid

The point here is not to romanticize Crossroads, ignore its obvious problems, or cast it as some sort of realized vision - it desperately needs an interior update including a centralized food court and some other amenities, and it can do very little about its surrounding neighborhood - but it is not the opposite extreme that has been implied at times in this thread. Reality, as is often the case, is somewhere in the middle.


-SoonerDave

[SOONER8693]

I was there on Saturday as well. The thought went through my mind that this is nothing like has been portrayed on this thread. It looked as busy as ever at or near Christmas time. As mass of humanity doing a bunch of shopping and spending.

[okcguy]

I'm not a huge fan of malls in general, but when I need to go to a mall, Crossroads would be my absolute last choice. While it's true that one is unlikely to be shot or mugged while shopping at Crossroads, the fact remains that if you want to shop at an Oklahoma City mall, you can do far better. Penn Square is so much nicer in appearance and they have every thing you'd want at Crossroads (save for Steve and Barry's, whatever that is) plus so much more! Pottery Barn? Check! Upscale specialty clothing stores? Check! A nice food court? Check! Plus, lots of other nice stores. I can't imagine why anyone would rather go to Crossroads when there is such a nicer mall relatively near-by.

[jbrown84]

Reality, as is often the case, is somewhere in the middle.


-SoonerDave

You are right about that. Certain people tend to exaggerate the state that Crossroads is in. But the fact remains that the owners (who've had over 10 years to do something) are 20 years behind Penn and Quail. For now they are doing fairly well (at least during the holidays) as you can attest, but as more shopping pops up on the southside in Moore, along I-240, and especially University North Park, it's going to get harder and harder to keep the crowds until they do something drastic to update the place. I can't see Penney's sticking around much longer with two new stores opening in the southeast quadrant.

[traxx]

The thing is, is that Quail Springs is the next Crossroads. With Penn Square being the benchmark in OKC and talk of an upscale mall maybe going in up in Edmond, Quail could very easily become the next Crossroads and I believe is already showing signs of that. Quail already has more local yokel shops instead of national chains and they losing the upscale battle with Penn so much that it's not even a battle anymore.

[soonerliberal]

My problem with Crossroads isn't the fact that it is unappealing visually or the fact that it is slightly more dangerous than the other malls. My problem stems from the lack of shopping that appeals to the traditional mall customers. When Sooner Mall in Norman is half the size of Crossroads, yet has more stores that I am willing to shop at, there seems to be a problem.

Sooner Mall has stores such as Abercrombie and Fitch, Eddie Bauer, NY & Co, American Eagle, Gap, Aeropostale, etc and it is not even near the level of a mall like Penn Square is and is tiny compared to the Big 3 malls in OKC. Crossroads does not have the traditional mall stores that most traditional mall shoppers go to shop at. I assume this is largely because of many of the problems described so far on this forum.

[fsusurfer]

Mall ratings:

Crossroads: A dump, outdated, low-rent stores
Quail Springs: Run of the mill mall stores, nothing special at all
Penn Square: Upscale mall, only mall in the metro I do my shopping at.

[BailJumper]

All depends on demographics. Every store you mentioned from Sooner Mall is precisely because they are in a college town. I personally never shop at any of those stores mentioned. I actually go to Crossroads more often than any other mall because 1. It's fairly close to my home 2. Has the stores I shop at 3. I can park fairly close and not deal with the crowds at the other malls.

I dred the thought of going to Penn Square regardless of the time of year. The only store I even halfway like is Pottery Barn and Penn has the smallest PB I have ever been in.

[BG918]

I wonder if Penn Square would ever consider building a parking garage?

[upisgr8]

Penn Square has a parking garage, (Macy's) and does anyone know the total SF of Penn Sq. and Quail Springs.

[SoonerDave]

Crossroads faces the same chicken-and-egg problem it has for years - it has lesser quality merchandise/selections, and no one will upgrade that until a higher $$ demographic starts coming in - but the higher $$ demographic won't come in until they upgrade the merchandise. And this overblown perception that Crossroads is a gansta tenament doesn't help the draw.

The article in the DOK the other day makes it clear the current owners plan to let the mall all-but rot in place, which is pathetic. The perceptions which are only partially true now will become self-fulfilling prophesies if nothing is done.

Crossroads needs an organized food court, and a complete internal facelift (including ANYTHING to get rid of those 1970's gray-only concrete floors). The sad part about it is that I was told by someone who's family ran a store there years ago said that food court plans were in place YEARS ago, but ownership feuds over control of the property prevented them from ever being implemented. I think the playground and carousel pretty much eliminated that center court from becoming a food plaze.

It's fairly apparent that they've at least tried to steer most of the eateries to a common area near along the lower south corridor - Taco Mayo, Orange Julius, Sonic, Subway, Chik-fil-A. Sbarro's is still across the center court, and Auntie Anne's Pretzels are on the 2nd floor. But it's at least an effort in the right direction.

I have to believe JC Penny will be closing upon completion of the two new regional centers going in on I-35 in Moore and on SE 29th in MWC. That would give Sears a chance to get out of their horrible location at SW 44th and Western - and, yes, moving to the Crossroads area would be an upgrade. They might even refresh the auto center that's languished for years in the NW corner of that property.

That would keep three anchor tenants, and I'll just hope Steve and Barry's goes away. *One* neat outparcel retail shop in that area would be a great lynchpin - such as a Barnes and Noble, combined with an internal facelift, would give Crossroads a great shot in the arm.

-David

[BailJumper]

God, speaking of Barnes and Noble - I would be forever grateful if a bookstore (prefer Borders) would move South. Crossroads would be great (in the parking lot) or north of TAFB by the new Target and Lowes.

I guess they figure nobody reads on the southside!

[soonerliberal]

It is amazing what a little facelift can do to a property. Externally, Crossroads isn't that bad looking. Maybe change the signs and the entrances a bit to update the place but the old mall brick works for the place.

However, internally a lot needs to be done. Yes, an organized food court would be nice, but you know what would be nicer? Tiled floors. Tiling the place would first lighten it up quite a bit and second make it look a lot better than the generic concrete they have right now. Then the mall needs new railing. I am not an interior designer by any means, but prison railing probably needs to go. Finally, something needs to be done with the gawdy ceiling. No wonder birds love hanging out in the mall! South Oklahoma City has the demographics to sustain Crossroads, and frankly there are a lot of us who do not really care for driving up to Penn Square or down to Norman to shop, but right now it is necessary.

It really disturbs me that the management there is willing to allow the mall to crumble and become the replacement for Old Paris.

[jbrown84]

It truly does need a major overhaul. You are right about the tile. When Quail put in the off white tile to replace all that brown crap, and put in more skylights, it helped brighten the place so much. It was a major improvement.

[SoonerDave]

Agree completely on the floor issue - I'd make it priority. It would do so much to lighten the place up.

BailJumper, I'm right there with you on the issue of bookstores on the southside. Borders, B&N, I don't really care, I just wish one of them would build on our side of town. Considering that B&N has *two* within just a few minutes drive of each other on N. May, the conspicuous absence of one on the southside just oozes the notion that no one buys books "down there."

I emailed someone with the S OKC Chamber of Commerce about it, and they said they had approached B&N several times, but they weren't interested. If they took an honest look at the demographics around SW OKC focusing on a region centered at (approximately) SW 104th and Penn, they'd realize they're missing on one of the highest income-per-capita regions in the state. Sadly, it's much easier to believe the conventional wisdom that everyone south of Reno is an ignorant, gang-banging, illiterate rube.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, I'll get off my soapbox, but that particular issue is a real sore spot with me, and I'd personally like to see the S. OKC Chamber become a bit more aggressive in general, but that's another issue.

-SoonerDave