Okcfest 2014

[Questor]

It's interesting. One of the first posts on their Facebook page mentions it'll be an all genre festival. But then later posts all say "okc's premiere country music festival" or similar. T minus 30 days out and no rock bands have been added to the lineup. I don't know, it's seeming more like a country music festival to me with every passing day.

Update: Just found out the guy who helped put this together was the past chairman of the Country Music Association. I'm guessing this is now a country festival.

[TheTravellers]

Can't really expect much of a festival that I think was conceived of during the May 2013 tornado benefits, when Mayor Mick apparently thought "Hey, these things can bring in a lotta people, let's get one going every year and make a lotta money", which to my mind is an odd thing to think during benefit and relief concerts, but I guess that's how you have to think if you're a mayor. Just read this article, which is hilarious in retrospect:

OKCFEST music festival set to transform downtown Oklahoma City, build new industries | News OK

“This is a transformational event in Oklahoma City,” Cornett said. “In that it will not just be a weekend — it will, I believe, kick-start a new identity for the music scene in Oklahoma City and also be the beginning of an industry for both film and video.”

Hall said he’s looking at OKCFEST to draw 30,000 people per day. He also noted more than 90 percent of event production is from Oklahoma-based vendors.

“Why can’t we do Austin City Limits in Oklahoma City?” Hall said. “Why can’t we build an industry? ... I want to keep all that money here and build that industry in Oklahoma City.”

Emphasis mine. And we can't do ACL in OKC because we just can't - not enough money, not enough promoters, not enough festival grounds ready for it, not enough bands willing to do it (apparently, since all they can get is country acts). Maybe in a few years, but not now.

Also just sent them an email asking if they meant to be "OKC's First Outdoor Music Festival" instead of "OKC's Most Important Outdoor Music Festival" (Premiere vs. Premier). Seriously, nobody caught this? SMH....

[Edgar]

Why can't we do an ACL in OKC? beacause Austin is a hip progressive liberal artful town and OKC, well whatever antonyms you prefer.

[trousers]

Have you considered starting an ACL style festival in Oklahoma or are you counting on the mayor to do it for you?
Once again...how many of the "hip" festivals around the country were started by the cities mayor?
Pretty sure that the mayor of Manchester TN was the mastermind of Bonnaroo.

[Urbanized]

I suspect it will be entertaining to pull up and re-post some of these whiny comments a couple of years down the road. The festival has to start somewhere, and they chose to start with the surest path to commercial viability. The rest will come in time.

[bchris02]

Why can't we do an ACL in OKC? beacause Austin is a hip progressive liberal artful town and OKC, well whatever antonyms you prefer.

OKC needs to figure out how to compete with Tulsa's music scene before it can think about an ACL type event. What this city needs is better promoters and most importantly more of a live music culture. Once OKC gets in the habit of going to see live acts, especially non-country acts, the rest will snowball.

[TheTravellers]

I suspect it will be entertaining to pull up and re-post some of these whiny comments a couple of years down the road. The festival has to start somewhere, and they chose to start with the surest path to commercial viability. The rest will come in time.

Y'know, it wouldn't've been that hard to get a few non-country bands on side/smaller stages for the first time... Do something like Neil Young and Crazy Horse did on their tour back in 1990 - he got Sonic Youth and Social Distortion opening for them because he liked them and wanted to introduce them to more people. Pissed off lots of people, but also made a lot of them check the bands out later (I personally remember a bunch of folks at the show bitching about Sonic Youth, while I was way into them and thought it was great he did that).

As far as starting my own festival, I just don't have the millions in money, contacts, experience, ad nauseum to do it. 99% of OKC's population couldn't do it, either, I'm guessing, so we're stuck with the rich people in power that have all the advantages for that kind of thing to do it.

And I don't think the mayor of Manchester had the idea for Bonnaroo, it seems it was just in the right place at the right time (slightly paraphrasing a Dr. John song, since they got the fest name from one of his albums): The Founders of Superfly Presents and Brains Behind Bonnaroo | Inc.com

Mayers: We took a break and went to California for Coachella, the music and art festival. That rejuvenated us, and we came home with a new business model. It would be a multiday music and entertainment event where the audience would camp out. We would control all the revenue streams: tickets, concessions, merchandise, VIP packages, sponsorships, and licensing of audio and video content.

...

Mayers: We raised money from Coran Capshaw, who manages the Dave Matthews Band, and found a site in Manchester, Tennessee. It was a 700-acre farm with all these access roads left over from a festival of retro acts that had flopped a few years earlier. The place had a great vibe. It was right off the highway. The backstage road led to a Holiday Inn. We negotiated a deal on the spot.

[Edgar]

OKC has had good music promoters with Innervisions for decades. The city just doesn't support live music very well. The reason Tulsa gets all the shows, people buy tickets. OKC could never pull off an ACL because that would mean a diverse lineup drawing a diverse crowd and that's scary.

[trousers]

One advantage Tulsa has is Cains. A venue that fans AND performers love.
OKC has no similiar mid-sized venue, and if you mention the Diamond Ballroom...well let's not be silly.

[TheTravellers]

OKC has had good music promoters with Innervisions for decades. The city just doesn't support live music very well. The reason Tulsa gets all the shows, people buy tickets. OKC could never pull off an ACL because that would mean a diverse lineup drawing a diverse crowd and that's scary.

It does seem like the old divide is still there, thought it might change over the past 30+ years, but it really hasn't much, as far as live shows go - OKC likes country and classic rock and not much else (except maybe metal/punk/hardcore), Tulsa likes everything.

[TheTravellers]

One advantage Tulsa has is Cains. A venue that fans AND performers love.
OKC has no similiar mid-sized venue, and if you mention the Diamond Ballroom...well let's not be silly.

Yes, Cain's and the Brady get more acts that OKC should also get, and OKC doesn't have a venue to compete with them. Yet. I'm hoping the horrible concrete shoebox that the BEC was is going to be transformed into someplace that can somewhat compete with them (they have way too much history and coolness associated with them for the BEC to really compete toe-to-toe, head-to-head with them, but hopefully we'll get *some* bands that would normally pass us by). Of course, we also need promoters that are willing to bring non-country/classic rock bands here more often for it all to work out.

[Edgar]

One advantage Tulsa has is Cains. A venue that fans AND performers love.
OKC has no similiar mid-sized venue, and if you mention the Diamond Ballroom...well let's not be silly.

The Diamond is ok. Thought the old farmers market has great potential to be a cool venue. The Black Crowes show there was epic. Innervisions tried to make a go of it, booking Buddy Guy and others. Guess it didn't go. OKC could make a bang with the Bricktown Blues Festival now that Tulsa doesn't have one anymore in the spring, there is a fledgling fall camping blues fest on the Arkansas, but it's not even worth driving up from Norman last year with only cheap local talent booked. OKCFEST has a steep hill to climb.

[TheTravellers]

I agree totally with the Farmer's Market as being a cool venue, wish something would happen there, but I think the owner doesn't really want to do shows there or something similar... Went to the Hallowe'en party there in 2009 (I think, may've been 2010) and it was great, but it just kinda sits there, wanting to do more...

[bchris02]

It does seem like the old divide is still there, thought it might change over the past 30+ years, but it really hasn't much, as far as live shows go - OKC likes country and classic rock and not much else (except maybe metal/punk/hardcore), Tulsa likes everything.

That seems to be the case but is it really? I am pretty sure OKC is a major supporter of Tulsa's music scene. Most younger people I've met here go to Tulsa quite often for shows. It's easy to default to the old stereotype of Tulsa being progressive and artsy and OKC being country and redneck to explain the difference in the music scenes, but I don't think its that simple.

[trousers]

I usually fall back on my OKC north side vs south side bit when comparing OKC & Tulsa.
OKC will drive to Tulsa for shows, Tulsa rarely drives to OKC for shows.

[TheTravellers]

That seems to be the case but is it really? I am pretty sure OKC is a major supporter of Tulsa's music scene. Most younger people I've met here go to Tulsa quite often for shows. It's easy to default to the old stereotype of Tulsa being progressive and artsy and OKC being country and redneck to explain the difference in the music scenes, but I don't think its that simple.

You're right, promoters are part of the solution/problem, I expect. Promoter - Hey, let's bring [anythingbesidescountryandclassicrock] here, but wait, do we have the crowd for it, will it sell enough tickets, can I make money (the most important part), do we have an appropriate venue, is it a good idea, .....? Populace - Hey, why isn't [anythingbesidescountryandclassicrock] around here, I'm not sure if I'd go, but I might if it were the right band, .....? Chicken-egg, catch-22, etc. is what I'm thinking part (not sure how big a part) of it is. Promoters and venues and artists like to make money and if they're not sure if they will, they probably won't come here. If the populace won't go support [anythingbesidescountryandclassicrock], then the promoters won't bring more of them here. I personally try to go to any show that has a band that I like (but my taste is so eclectic, not much comes here that I like - pretty much the only bands I've seen here in the past few years were Pink Martini, Boris, Swans, Sleigh Bells, a few FLips shows, one NMF, saw the Pixies at the Brady a few years ago) to show support for [anythingbesidescountryandclassicrock].

Having said all that, I am going to a classic rock show - ZZ Top/Jeff Beck, but only to see Jeff Beck (and he really can't be classified with the ForeignerStyxREO38Specialblechwhatever contingent) since he's absolutely amazing and he's 70, so not sure how long he'll be touring.

[Jim Kyle]

That seems to be the case but is it really? I am pretty sure OKC is a major supporter of Tulsa's music scene. Most younger people I've met here go to Tulsa quite often for shows. It's easy to default to the old stereotype of Tulsa being progressive and artsy and OKC being country and redneck to explain the difference in the music scenes, but I don't think its that simple.

It definitely is not that simple. There was a time when OKC commanded top acts. The names may not be familiar to you youngsters to whom Elvis and Buddy Holly are ancient heroes, but I've personally attemded two concerts by Stan Kenton here in OKC, interviewed Count Basie when he appeared at the Municipal Auditorium (and filled the house), enjoyed Pete Fountain and Louis Armstrong there (on different occasions), and we were a regular stop on the tours of twin-piano team Ferrante and Teicher.

And those are only the highlights that I can pull out of the top of my head. Charlie Christian got his start here, in Deep Deuce, and Jack Teagarden blew a lot of trombone in small joints around the city. In the 50s I danced to Woody Herman and the Third Herd, and also to Buddy Morrow (of Night Train fame) but Morrow was in Stillwater.

Until our far-seeing leaders destroyed the heart of downtown and with it the vibrancy of the city, we were definitely the equal of Tulsa in having top-quality entertainment. We had stage shows with Broadway casts, including Carol Channing (her son was editor of the Oklahoman for a time) and Mary Martin. But when the fabric of our community was shattered into widespread sprawling mini-communities, we lost that position with it. And we're just now on the road to regaining it.

By the way, don't decry all "country" artists as rednecks. Some of the best bebop piano I ever heard (and yes, it was in a Tulsa bar, not OKC) came from the fingers of a guitar picker for Bob Wills and the Playboys. We chatted a bit, and he pointed out that a professional musician simply had to take any gig that would provide bean money, while working for an opportunity to get to the top and do what he wanted. My middle son was a classmate of Vince Gill at Northwest; Vince lived only a block from us, and I listened to him practice almost every night in that last year before he went to Los Angeles to get a start. It took him something like 10 years to gain recognition and during that time he played every kind of music imaginable, as one of the best studio men in Music City. Now he can call his shots, and they're definitely not redneck at all. Kenny Rogers started as a rock singer with the First Edition; he became a country star, but again is anything but redneck in style.

Let's back this festival, and hope it can reach its goals in future years!

[Edgar]

You're right, promoters are part of the solution/problem, I expect. Promoter - Hey, let's bring [anythingbesidescountryandclassicrock] here, but wait, do we have the crowd for it, will it sell enough tickets, can I make money (the most important part), do we have an appropriate venue, is it a good idea, .....? Populace - Hey, why isn't [anythingbesidescountryandclassicrock] around here, I'm not sure if I'd go, but I might if it were the right band, .....? Chicken-egg, catch-22, etc. is what I'm thinking part (not sure how big a part) of it is. Promoters and venues and artists like to make money and if they're not sure if they will, they probably won't come here. If the populace won't go support [anythingbesidescountryandclassicrock], then the promoters won't bring more of them here. I personally try to go to any show that has a band that I like (but my taste is so eclectic, not much comes here that I like - pretty much the only bands I've seen here in the past few years were Pink Martini, Boris, Swans, Sleigh Bells, a few FLips shows, one NMF, saw the Pixies at the Brady a few years ago) to show support for [anythingbesidescountryandclassicrock].

Having said all that, I am going to a classic rock show - ZZ Top/Jeff Beck, but only to see Jeff Beck (and he really can't be classified with the ForeignerStyxREO38Specialblechwhatever contingent) since he's absolutely amazing and he's 70, so not sure how long he'll be touring.

Innervisions tried a diverse lineup at the Zooamp years back and lost $ with acts like Ludicris and the Praire Home, so they went to booking classic rock solely.

[TheTravellers]

Re: Jim's post (since I didn't really want to mess with partially quoting it) - Agreed, my dad went to marvelous things here in years past, and we actually had some great concerts all the way through the 80s, I think (I need to get my list of concerts out and check, yes, I have a list of all the concerts I've been to), then it went downhill and was one of the reasons I left in 1995.

And just to make sure I don't get painted with the country/redneck brush, I didn't equate country with redneck, I just don't like most current (post-1960-ish) country music, but I do like the older stuff - Patsy, Hank Sr., Bob Wills, some Willie, Dwight Yoakam, some Merle, Johnny (old and the Rick Rubin stuff), Carter Family, lots of old mountain bluegrass, etc.

[bchris02]

Innervisions tried a diverse lineup at the Zooamp years back and lost $ with acts like Ludicris and the Praire Home, so they went to booking classic rock solely.

How long ago?

Also, OKC has never been a big hip-hop town. This city has never (in recent history) been able to support a real hip-hop/r&b radio station so I doubt a hip-hop concert that was tried probably 5-10 years ago is something to go by to determine the viability of bringing in artists that aren't country or classic rock.

[Questor]

I think the metros best music festival is the Norman Music Festival. I love it's diversity and always get a kick out of the indie bands they have headlining it. It's amazing that it was started up by a couple of random folks who just wanted a cool music festival there. It's mostly free so that limits them in many ways, but it's still amazing to me what they can pull off.

I wish OKCFest was all of the above, but with real money to draw in bigger names who simply don't perform at freebees.

[Questor]

Agree Cain's is incredible. Incredible because if it's acoustics, it's vibe, the people there, and the shows it can draw. Tulsa just has a different vibe and a different set of young people there. I've been hearing people talk about how our music culture is eventually going to catch up with and surpass theirs for years. And it just never happens. Whether we are talking failed venues in Bricktown that gave it a go or failure to get the idea off the ground like with the Tower Theater a few years ago the end result always seems to be about the same.

I'm not happy about the extremely safe lineup of OKCFest, but I understand it. Maybe it's for the best.

[Jim Kyle]

I think the metros best music festival is the Norman Music Festival. I love it's diversity and always get a kick out of the indie bands they have headlining it. It's amazing that it was started up by a couple of random folks who just wanted a cool music festival there. It's mostly free so that limits them in many ways, but it's still amazing to me what they can pull off.

I wish OKCFest was all of the above, but with real money to draw in bigger names who simply don't perform at freebees.

Do you know whether there's any connection at all between the current Norman festival and the Wayne Nichols Memorial Benefits there quite a few years ago?

For the youngsters who never heard of Wayne, he was one of the top local musicians in the 50s through the 70s. He blew trumpet but was also a mean piano player and not-so-bad singer after the fashion of Jack Teagarden. He led the band at the Jamboree Club and created all sorts of numbers for some of the exotic dancers there. Unfortunately, he was also an alcoholic and that eventually killed him. I met him when he was blowing piano at The Store, a tiny joint at NW 50 and Portland which is still in operation. I first went there in the 70s because it was a favorite watering hole for members of my wife's bowling league, and I tagged along. I kept going after Wayne showed up, and spent many a night nursing a single draught beer all evening and listening to him.

I'm sure that Prunie knew him and maybe even played a gig or two with him. He was widely known by all the musicians in the area, and it was nothing out of the ordinary for two or three of them to show up unexpectedly on any evening and launch an impromptu session.

When I first met him, Wayne was an active Friend of Bill. He was quite open about the fact that he had no memory at all of several years of his life, but appeared to be as close to cured as a true alcoholic can achieve. However it didn't last, and when he fell off the wagon he was no longer able to perform in public. Only a few months later, he suffered a massive and fatal heart attack.

Several months after that, his friends organized a memorial benefit down in Norman. My wife and I made it a point to be there. There was no admission charge, just an opportunity to donate if one desired. It was a full day of great music, mostly (like the man himself) from the Big Band era. Groups came from out of state to participate. And afterward, there was talk of plans to make it an annual event.

I never heard any details about a repeat, though, until the Norman festival showed up. That's why I'm curious as to whether there's any connection, or simple coincidence at work...

[dcsooner]

That seems to be the case but is it really? I am pretty sure OKC is a major supporter of Tulsa's music scene. Most younger people I've met here go to Tulsa quite often for shows. It's easy to default to the old stereotype of Tulsa being progressive and artsy and OKC being country and redneck to explain the difference in the music scenes, but I don't think its that simple.

I do.

[bchris02]

I do.

Do you really think there is nobody in OKC who would support a show that wasn't based around country or classic rock?