Dear Dallas

[adaniel]

This has stopped. It's not that we're losing lots of smart people, it's just that we need to recruit more -- or educate more of our people to create more of them.

OKC is a far more attractive place for smart people to live than it used to be, but the idiocracy running our state and demanding media attention (Fallin, Inhofe, Kern, etc.) substantiate negative stereotypes about our state and do not make our state an attractive place to relocate for smart people.

Thank you. Said poster should look at the thread where OKC ranks 12th in the increase in millennials in the past 5 years. But don't let facts get in the way.

With that in mind, it is becoming apparent that for all the great things lining up in OKC the state is increasingly getting in the way. Since I have no hope of them changing anytime soon, I really believe that urban legislative members should start pushing for a constitutional convention that allows for more local control. Texas IMO is even more right wing in some ways at the state level, but localities here have more power in raising revenue and setting their own guidelines vs municipalities in OK.

[Jersey Boss]

As more corporations relocate they will either take or eventually take all or parts of their research and development staff with them..... California will need to adapt soon or they will increasingly lose major elements of their “technological innovation” ability. Without big change, increasingly California will lose it's desirability as a place to live and over 20 or so years many high skilled people will want out.

Right now Texas is just one place getting great California jobs

Was Toyota driven out of California? Not so fast - latimes.com
Toyota's plan to close its Torrance headquarters and ship 3,000 jobs to a Dallas suburb has triggered a new round of hand-wringing among those who see business-friendly Texas gaining at the expense of regulation-choked California.


In Austin, Texas Gov. Rick Perry took a victory lap, crediting his state's low taxes and hands-off policies. Lawmakers and business lobbyists from Torrance to Sacramento said the Golden State must unravel red tape and increase incentives if it hopes to compete for jobs. They ridiculed Gov. Jerry Brown for not even knowing about Toyota's plans to abandon his state.

The trouble is that taxes, regulations and business climate appear to have had nothing to do with Toyota's move. It came down to a simple matter of geography and a plan for corporate consolidation, Toyota's North American chief told The Times. And in the big picture, California's and Texas' economies are growing at a similar pace, with corporate relocations — in either direction — representing only a tiny slice of job growth in both states.

"It may seem like a juicy story to have this confrontation between California and Texas, but that was not the case," said Jim Lentz, Toyota's North American chief executive.

Toyota left California to move its company's brainpower, now divided among offices in three states, into one headquarters close to the company's manufacturing base, primarily in the South.

"It doesn't make sense to have oversight of manufacturing 2,000 miles away from where the cars were made," Lentz said. "Geography is the reason not to have our headquarters in California."

In the big picture, Texas and California are seeing strong job growth. Since they bottomed out in the recession, both states have added about 1.2 million jobs. That represents a 12% gain for Texas but only 8% for California because of its larger job market. Texas also suffered fewer losses in the downturn.

Average wages, adjusted for inflation, have fallen in both states since 2007. But they have fallen 3.8% in Texas, compared to 2.1% in California, according to Labor Department data.

For companies that do move, corporate strategy often plays a bigger role than a state's tax or regulatory climate.

When Northrop Grumman moved its headquarters and 300 jobs to Virginia from Century City three years ago, the company aimed to get closer to Pentagon power brokers who decided on big contracts for the company, the company's chief executive, Wesley B. Bush, said at the time.

Los Angeles-based Occidental Petroleum, which announced earlier this year that it would move its headquarter to Houston, wants to be closer to the profitable Texas oil patch.

Toyota's thinking is similar.

Lentz said the move grew from a conversation a year ago with Toyota global President Akio Toyoda, about how to structure North American business "for the next 50 years." The current setup, with corporate affiliates spread across the U.S., no longer made sense for a company that builds and sells millions of cars a year here.

Toyota began looking for a place to consolidate, comparing everything from climate and direct flights to Japan to cost of living and schools in 100 metro areas. It then narrowed the list to four finalists: Atlanta, Charlotte, N.C., Denver and Plano, an affluent suburb of Dallas. Torrance was never on the list, in part because Lentz wanted to avoid a culture clash between different arms of corporate management.



Was Toyota driven out of California? Not so fast - latimes.com

[Snowman]

Seems like a slightly contradictory message, going on and on about it was not a factor but at the end discussing the metrics they used for site selection which just from a cursory glance, would have likely knocked keeping it in the same location in the list of locations considered.

[Just the facts]

For companies that do move, corporate strategy often plays a bigger role than a state's tax or regulatory climate.

Unless that company is GE and opening an office in OKC because we have been told the Quality Jobs program and local incentives is what sealed that deal.

[BG918]

Article about the "unprecedented" office market in Dallas right now. Really staggering numbers of large corporations needing millions of SF of space and several potential high profile HQ relocations. Dallas is on such a different level than anything here. The question our leaders should ask is how do we capitalize from having a Top 4 US metro less than a hundred miles from the OK border and the challenges/opportunities ahead (transportation, higher education, water..)

D Real Estate Daily » Blog Archive » Chase, Caterpillar, Google, Amazon?Breaking Down Other Big Deals in the Market

[HangryHippo]

Article about the "unprecedented" office market in Dallas right now. Really staggering numbers of large corporations needing millions of SF of space and several potential high profile HQ relocations. Dallas is on such a different level than anything here. The question our leaders should ask is how do we capitalize from having a Top 4 US metro less than a hundred miles from the OK border and the challenges/opportunities ahead (transportation, higher education, water..)

D Real Estate Daily » Blog Archive » Chase, Caterpillar, Google, Amazon?Breaking Down Other Big Deals in the Market

It's really incredible. I just don't see what they're doing so differently that we can't capitalize on some of that being so close. Why can't we get these companies to look at us instead?

[BG918]

The only thing that could potentially slow them down is access to water. DFW can't support the 8 million that they are projecting will be living there in a decade with current water sources. That is why they have been trying to tap into Oklahoma water for years, and will continue that fight. As long as Oklahoma doesn't give in and sell the water we will have the upper hand in the near future when DFW becomes increasingly expensive and congested.

Having better connections to the Metroplex will be essential. Expanded I-35 from OKC and the construction of a limited access highway (likely tolled) on Hwy 75 from Tulsa. Also passenger rail from Tulsa and OKC into Dallas, not just Ft Worth.

One of the biggest factors is higher education. Already the Metroplex sends thousands of students each year to OU and OSU, and that share will probably get larger. This is good for the universities as these students pay higher tuition, but until recently most went back to Texas after graduation. Retaining more of these students with job opportunities in Oklahoma will be key. I also think there will be a time when OU, and to a lesser extent OSU, will be majority Texas students and higher achieving Oklahoma students. More Oklahoma students will go to OCU, NSU, etc as an alternative to an increasingly expensive OU or OSU education.

[Snowman]

There MSA population growth alone is crazy, they pretty much have had a group the size of Norman or more mover there every year since WW2 ended.

[adaniel]

If you are curious, OKC MSA actually grew a tad bit faster than DFW's last year. 1.717% vs 1.613%.

And I would argue that DFW's growth is starting to spill into SE OK, if I am not mistaken Durant is now part of the DFW consolidated area. The local government down there has been very progressive in marketing to logistics firms who want to avoid TX's high property taxes but have easy access to the DFW market. Bryan county grew at around 1.745% last year. In comparison, Grayson County TX, the county just across the border from Durant grew at about 0.55%. There has been similar success on a lesser scale in Ardmore and Marietta.

If the OK state government were smart it would start studying what Durant is doing.

[bchris02]

Other than the usual culprits i.e. the airport, brain drain, office space, etc, I think if OKC was in Texas and not in Oklahoma I think it could see more benefit from the current boom. Every Texas city other than maybe El Paso has a huge amount of momentum right now. Oklahoma is reaching a point where the state government is holding the city back and until there is a change of leadership, which is unlikely, OKC will continue to play fifth fiddle behind San Antonio, Austin, Houston, and DFW.

[BG918]

Texas has a swagger that Oklahoma lacks. People not in Texas call it arrogance but it has worked tremendously well for their overall image and business development. Just being close to Texas won't do it, you have to have a greater advantage than that. Arkansas, Louisiana and New Mexico are adjacent to Texas and none of those states are high performers.

[Plutonic Panda]

Other than the usual culprits i.e. the airport, brain drain, office space, etc, I think if OKC was in Texas and not in Oklahoma I think it could see more benefit from the current boom. Every Texas city other than maybe El Paso has a huge amount of momentum right now. Oklahoma is reaching a point where the state government is holding the city back and until there is a change of leadership, which is unlikely, OKC will continue to play fifth fiddle behind San Antonio, Austin, Houston, and DFW.

El Paso, Lubbock, and Amarillo don't really have much going on.

DFW, Houston, Austin, and SA are really Texas's main cities and as far as Midland, that won't last. The place is a dump and once they go through the energy boom there, I highly doubt it is a city people will want to stay in. Just go look at pictures of it.

[HangryHippo]

Texas has a swagger that Oklahoma lacks. People not in Texas call it arrogance but it has worked tremendously well for their overall image and business development. Just being close to Texas won't do it, you have to have a greater advantage than that. Arkansas, Louisiana and New Mexico are adjacent to Texas and none of those states are high performers.

And my god are they arrogant. Texans are obnoxious as hell about being from Texas. I'm hesitant to attribute their economic successes to that swagger, but maybe that really does help them.

[ou48A]

Texas has a swagger that Oklahoma lacks. People not in Texas call it arrogance but it has worked tremendously well for their overall image and business development. Just being close to Texas won't do it, you have to have a greater advantage than that. Arkansas, Louisiana and New Mexico are adjacent to Texas and none of those states are high performers.

It does help them a lot.
They have a by god we can do that attitude and unlike some of our local leaders in Norman they don't easily let problems and naysayers stand in the way of a better quality of life for the vast majority.

The behind the scenes power is far more diluted, so a few powerful people can't as easily control the agenda of what we do with public tax money like we see so many times in Oklahoma.

[progressiveboy]

Another coup for the DFW area! Another corporate relocation to the area. Who say's HQ moves do not happen very often? Dallas is a prime example of HQ's moving quite frequently.




Cargo carrier Ameriflight to relocate HQ, operations to D/FW Airport - Dallas Business Journal

[JoninATX]

Every major city in Texas which includes El Paso is going through some type of economic growth. Oklahoma City has alot of potential to grow like Austin, you have to find something that says "OKC is the place to be"!

[bchris02]

Every major city in Texas which includes El Paso is going through some type of economic growth. Oklahoma City has alot of potential to grow like Austin, you have to find something that says "OKC is the place to be"!

Interesting. I wasn't aware El Paso was experiencing a boom. I know for the longest time they've been somewhat of the "black sheep" metro of Texas.

[bchris02]

Double post.

[JoninATX]

El Paso is growing at a steady pace, as well with the expansion of Ft. Bliss. It may not be the rapid growth that Austin is experiencing but it's growing nonetheless.


Here's a link to what's happening in El Paso.
El Paso Development News

[bluedogok]

Interesting. I wasn't aware El Paso was experiencing a boom. I know for the longest time they've been somewhat of the "black sheep" metro of Texas.

Most people in Texas consider El Paso part of New Mexico...jokingly. They really could extend the Texas-NM border south and most in Texas wouldn't mind.

[Snowman]

Most people in Texas consider El Paso part of New Mexico...jokingly. They really could extend the Texas-NM border south and most in Texas wouldn't mind.

I have heard several stories similar both in the Texas panhandle and far south Texas, like there may be a Texas Triangle verses the rest of the state sort of thing going on.

[warreng88]

This might be one of the funnier reads I have ever seen:

4 Driving Tips For Surviving Dallas | Dallas Observer

[SOONER8693]

Chicago is one of my favorite cities. Love it, love it, love it.

I concur. Chicago is a world class city.

[Plutonic Panda]

This might be one of the funnier reads I have ever seen:

4 Driving Tips For Surviving Dallas | Dallas Observer

That is pretty funny/ I do want to say though, I was in N Dallas this weekend and the 'cars' treated the 'peds' pretty good. I saw plenty of people completely stopping for pedestrians waiting for them to cross when the light was green, so it isn't that hostile to pedestrians.

[bluedogok]

That is pretty funny/ I do want to say though, I was in N Dallas this weekend and the 'cars' treated the 'peds' pretty good. I saw plenty of people completely stopping for pedestrians waiting for them to cross when the light was green, so it isn't that hostile to pedestrians.

They were awestruck (or bumfuzzled) and trying to figure out what they were seeing.....