Why does South OKC get

[Garin]

Why does South OKC get overlooked by restaurants ? We seem to always be the last choice if even a choice at all. Example hideaway pizza four location on the north side or one in Norman , Tucker's seems to be the next annoying a new location on the north side making it their third. Do these places think the south market just isn't worthy or are the chambers of commerce more aggressive ? I'm sick of driving twenty minutes to get something good to eat.

[Teo9969]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Garin]

There is plenty of money and people willing to spend it. The places that do decide to come benefit greatly..take panera bread at SW 104 and penn it is the top performing stores in the state. Same With Ted's

[Mel]

Plus the mindset the has existed since I was a pup is you HAVE to drive north to impress your date.

[Prunepicker]

Why does South OKC get overlooked by restaurants?

One can't help but imagine why S Walker, around SW 89th, hasn't had a
following similar to N Western in Nichols Hills. There's a lot of money on
the south side and no lack of space to grow.

[Paseofreak]

Having lived both north and south, my gut tells me that the map of gross disposable income leads north. I'd say that their gut tells them they want to swim in the deepest water and amongst folks whose income has developed a more varied or discriminating palate through travel and other exposures. Not knocking southsiders one bit. Just the impression I get from management friends in the industry.

[Mel]

It would be cool if the ol' Riviera Drive In was still around. It was the best place to seek your girl in to see a "M" movie.

[Prunepicker]

Plus the mindset the has existed since I was a pup is you HAVE to drive
north to impress your date.

LOL! I must confess that I was such a person. The south side didn't
have the panache of the north side.

This has nothing to do with intelligence or culture. The problem seems
to be location, location,
location.

I think about Nichol's Hills, Pill Hill, and Heritage Hills and can certainly
understand why the south side doesn't have extraordinary restaurants
or venues.

Downtown is north. Cities grew/grow around the downtown area.
For OKC it happened to be in a northerly direction.

[Zuplar]

Maybe if they ever do something on the East side of Will Rogers they will consider putting in nice restaurants over there. Plenty of suburbs on the West side of town that would drive this direction instead of heading to Edmond-ish.

[Easy180]

Not to mention most jobs are in downtown or north so lunch crowds are a factor...Squatzo down south

[Prunepicker]

Maybe if they ever do something on the East side of Will Rogers they will
consider putting in nice restaurants over there. Plenty of suburbs on the
West side of town that would drive this direction instead of heading to
Edmond-ish.

Unlike the north side, most of the spaces to grow on the south side
are east-west streets,i.e. 29th, 44th, 59th, 89th, 119th.

[gjl]

Plus the mindset the has existed since I was a pup is you HAVE to drive north to impress your date.

I always heard you can take your woman out of the south side but you can't take the south side out of your woman.

[hoya]

Not to mention most jobs are in downtown or north so lunch crowds are a factor...Squatzo down south

http://www.tinker.af.mil/

[Easy180]

http://www.tinker.af.mil/

They come all the way to south OKC for lunch?

[catch22]

They come all the way to south OKC for lunch?

Traditionally blue collar jobs don't really leave the work site for lunch. With a strict break time, most choose to stay at work for lunch, or if they do need to leave, go to fast food.

Office workers typically have a less restrictive lunch schedule.

There are exceptions to the rule on either side, I'm sure.

[adaniel]

I actually had friends who passed on buying a home in Moore because of this very reason. They are DINKs who like a night on the town and figured that would simply be easier on the north side.

Even if you ignore the fact that there are far more jobs and wealth north of Reno, you can't just look at income and jobs but consumer behavior as well.

I can guarantee you the person making 60K at Chesapeake probably has completely different set of spending habits and priorities that the person making 60K at Tinker. Doesn't make one better than the other, but in all likelihood the person at CHK is probably freer with their money when it comes to eating out, buying small scale consumer goods, etc.

Could a Cheesecake Factory, PF Changs, etc. do well on 240 or in Moore? Perhaps. But given that OKC in general is a bit of an unproven market, although less so than in years past, restauranteurs and retailers are going to go where its "safer" first in terms of available consumers and income.

[Jeepnokc]

Look at this link:

Zip Codes with the Highest Median Household Income in Oklahoma | Zip Atlas

Look at the #4 and #9 zip codes which is the area around I-44 basically between SW 89th and the river. It has the highest median income. What is interesting is look at the population numbers of the only two OKC zip codes ahead of #4 and they are tiny. After 73170, the next zip code (Edmond) is bigger population wise at 36 thousand versus 21 thousand but then look at the total square miles. It is close to four times bigger sq mile wise. People severely underestimate the income levels in SW OKC. Yet. it is amazing that we have no development along I44. In my neighborhood of thirty homes, there is a dentist, two lawyers, an optometrist, a trucking company owner, an owner of an exterminating company, a guy that owns a private homeland security company, as well as a couple of oilfield guys that own their own private jets (yes...plural on the jets).

[catch22]

The problem for the SW side (73170) is there is no focal point for development.

Other wealthy zip codes (especially on the NW side) have focal points. The far SW side is just 100% subdivisions, and no real development that inspires a focal point to concentrate development on.

[adaniel]

Look at this link:

Zip Codes with the Highest Median Household Income in Oklahoma | Zip Atlas

Look at the #4 and #9 zip codes which is the area around I-44 basically between SW 89th and the river. It has the highest median income. What is interesting is look at the population numbers of the only two OKC zip codes ahead of #4 and they are tiny. After 73170, the next zip code (Edmond) is bigger population wise at 36 thousand versus 21 thousand but then look at the total square miles. It is close to four times bigger sq mile wise. People severely underestimate the income levels in SW OKC. Yet. it is amazing that we have no development along I44. In my neighborhood of thirty homes, there is a dentist, two lawyers, an optometrist, a trucking company owner, an owner of an exterminating company, a guy that owns a private homeland security company, as well as a couple of oilfield guys that own their own private jets (yes...plural on the jets).

I would read that link with the understanding that wealth in OKC, rightly or wrongly, is highly decentralized from a geographical standpoint. ZIP codes are often not the best way to measure HH income in this area.

Since moneyed households are so spread out, think of it like a retailer would. Whole Foods at its location at 63rd and Grand is within 5 miles of Quail Creek, The Greens, Nichols Hills, expensive in-town neighborhoods like Heritage Hills and Crown Heights, and is across the street from a large employer with a few thousand high paid professionals. If the same Whole Foods was at, say SW 134th and May, apply the same 5 mile radius. True, it is in a pretty affluent zip but outside of Rivendell and a few rural neighborhoods west of 44 or near Moore, what compares to the 63rd location?

And then, you can't just look at income levels either. Americans by and large live near like minded people who's values and habits can widely vary between groups even among similar incomes. When I was still in OKC I knew quite a few folks on the southside. Many of them affluent blue collar types who owned construction or contractor type businesses, and one or two worked on drilling rigs. Yes they made a lot of money but they spent it on boats, top of the line trucks, ATV's, rifles for hunting, etc. Good people, but they wouldn't be caught dead in a place like Whole Foods. The attitude I got from these people were "we can afford to live in Edmond/North OKC/Nichols Hills but we don't because its too pretentious or snobby." Unfortunately, retailers like the people in Edmond/North OKC/Nichols Hills because they are the one's who will bust out the cash to buy, for example, $20 organic bologna from Whole Foods. On a related note, you can have a field day with this website. It breaks down demographic groups, and a lot of businesses use info like this to make expansion decisions.

I look at it this way. In NYC, Staten Island is technically the wealthiest and most educated of the 5 boroughs. And yet, I would imagine that Christian Dior or Dolce and Gabanna aren't looking to expand past their Manhattan location, because its the people in Manhattan who are far more likely to spend their money at their stores.

[Zuplar]

Look at this link:

Zip Codes with the Highest Median Household Income in Oklahoma | Zip Atlas

Look at the #4 and #9 zip codes which is the area around I-44 basically between SW 89th and the river. It has the highest median income. What is interesting is look at the population numbers of the only two OKC zip codes ahead of #4 and they are tiny. After 73170, the next zip code (Edmond) is bigger population wise at 36 thousand versus 21 thousand but then look at the total square miles. It is close to four times bigger sq mile wise. People severely underestimate the income levels in SW OKC. Yet. it is amazing that we have no development along I44. In my neighborhood of thirty homes, there is a dentist, two lawyers, an optometrist, a trucking company owner, an owner of an exterminating company, a guy that owns a private homeland security company, as well as a couple of oilfield guys that own their own private jets (yes...plural on the jets).

I agree with all of this, but maybe I'm biased.

[warreng88]

I tend to think that the northside of OKC and Edmond are about five years or so ahead of the nicer southside areas. Also, it regards to Tuckers, they asked the question on facebook and twitter of where the next location should go and the overwhelming response was NorthOKC/Edmond. I know that is not scientific by any means, but it seems there are more people who follow Tucker's on social media on the northside than the southside. It might also have to do with the fact that Moore is five or so miles away from south OKC so they might rather open on I-35 and get Norman, Moore, South OKC traffic rather than open on I-240 and get mostly south OKC traffic.

[kelroy55]

There is plenty of money and people willing to spend it. The places that do decide to come benefit greatly..take panera bread at SW 104 and penn it is the top performing stores in the state. Same With Ted's

Where did you get this info?

[SoonerDave]

Having lived both north and south, my gut tells me that the map of gross disposable income leads north. I'd say that their gut tells them they want to swim in the deepest water and amongst folks whose income has developed a more varied or discriminating palate through travel and other exposures. Not knocking southsiders one bit. Just the impression I get from management friends in the industry.

Common urban myth in central OK. Highest demographic concentration of disposable income, as documented in a study some years ago (for which I regret I cannot offer a link, but will attest to having read when it was published for what good that's worth) is the area roughly bullseyed by the Rivendell/Greenbriar/Lakeridge Run area in SW OKC around SW 104th/SW 134th. In fact, if memory serves, it was published with a bent on the fact that it was a surprising study, bucked conventional wisdom that Edmond was where all the money was, etc. etc. Wish I could recall more details or context, but alas, that's what I can offer. The study may have been related to some ongoing discussions about the region being undeserved with grocery stores, but I won't swear to that.

Bottom line, there's *plenty* of untapped market for nice eateries along roughly the SW 104th corridor. The SW corner of 104th and May is one such prime location, as would be the SE corner of 119th and May - and that's just for starters.

Absolutely zero reason not to put a nice family restaurant somewhere in that corridor. I frankly don't care if it's a chain or mom-and-pop. Cheddars, Hideaway, Chili's, Applebees, any of those would be well suited for that area - but preferably not Golden Corral or Furrs or the other contemporary bulk-feed troughs. I can't help but wonder if the upcoming WalSlum at SW 104th and I-44 will hasten any possibilities in the area.

[Jeepnokc]

Common urban myth in central OK. Highest demographic concentration of disposable income, as documented in a study some years ago (for which I regret I cannot offer a link, but will attest to having read when it was published for what good that's worth) is the area roughly bullseyed by the Rivendell/Greenbriar/Lakeridge Run area in SW OKC around SW 104th/SW 134th. In fact, if memory serves, it was published with a bent on the fact that it was a surprising study, bucked conventional wisdom that Edmond was where all the money was, etc. etc. Wish I could recall more details or context, but alas, that's what I can offer. The study may have been related to some ongoing discussions about the region being undeserved with grocery stores, but I won't swear to that.

Bottom line, there's *plenty* of untapped market for nice eateries along roughly the SW 104th corridor. The SW corner of 104th and May is one such prime location, as would be the SE corner of 119th and May - and that's just for starters.

Absolutely zero reason not to put a nice family restaurant somewhere in that corridor. I frankly don't care if it's a chain or mom-and-pop. Cheddars, Hideaway, Chili's, Applebees, any of those would be well suited for that area - but preferably not Golden Corral or Furrs or the other contemporary bulk-feed troughs. I can't help but wonder if the upcoming WalSlum at SW 104th and I-44 will hasten any possibilities in the area.

I had read the same story several years ago about the same area. It is interesting because the two OKC areas that are higher income have a density of 232 and 176 persons per sq mile while the area just east of I44/SW104 has a density of 1036 persons per sq mile.

[Garin]

Where did you get this info?

Paul Odom