Buy Newer House or Remodel Older

[Motley]

I am considering moving back to OK (NW OKC or older parts of Edmond) and would like thought on the housing market in OKC, especially as to buying an older home to remodel vs. buying a newer home.

Coming from San Diego, the tax code and high appreciate rates make remodeling very attractive. My neighborhood was built in the early to mid 1990s, and I would say the majority of baths and kitchens have already been refreshed. It helps maintain the value of the 'hood since families tend to stay instead of moving to a larger or newer house.

How about OKC? Do older neighborhoods maintain and hold value or do most families move to the newer house when theirs begin to age?

[Plutonic Panda]

Get ready for plethora of people to tell you to remodel lol

But in all honesty, If you're up to it, I'd say remodel- we really do need more people to reinvest in our older neighborhoods to make them more desirable. Plus, the way I see most of these new houses being built, the only way I'd build new is customizing my own from the ground up. If you're up to it, I'd say buying a house in and around the downtown OKC preferably around the Paseo District would be smart investment in the long run as I believe OKC is going to experience a surge in housing prices soon.

There are way too many tract housing being built on the fringes of the city and traffic is increasing and is only going to increase and as that happens, quite a few people will likely start to look back near the city again and this will only increase the already increasing home values in the area. Once the inner city really starts to mature, and I believe this around 10-20 years from now, home values will soar.

That's just me however.... if you are looking for new housing where you can just move in and be done with it, I am not sure about all the other suburbs, but I know Edmond has a ton of new houses and different styles to choose from and it seems the big thing is "garden homes" now. There is two 75-120 unit neighborhoods with these houses being built around mine. They also have new neighborhoods being built as well that have housing over 7,000sf for around 800,000+ I believe(I don't remember the actual figures). Also, the entire stretch of Covell is going to be redone, however Covell and I-35 is about to be developed in what the city calls a large development which--I believe--will become like Fritts Farm in Moore that has a horribly inefficient road network which creates awful traffic conditions.

There are also tons of older houses around downtown Edmond that will likely experience a value surge in 10-15 years as well as long as Edmond goes through with its downtown strategic plan and develops into a great, urban, vibrant, hub it is seems that it is trying to become. Also talks of commuter rail which might eventually become a light-rail station right in downtown Edmond, so that is a plus.

[BBatesokc]

My personal opinion is to not be in a hurry and decide first if you're buying as an investment (not your forever house) or if you plan to stay there for the foreseeable future. The difference being, as an investment house, don't look to fall in love with the brick and mortar and instead fall in love with 'the deal' and the money you saved now and will make in profit later.

Except under curtain rare circumstances (you're the builder, the area you build in all of a sudden becomes very popular, etc.) I have found its a better investment to buy used and remodel. Of course, 'remodeling' means different things to different people and you have to buy smart and remodel smart to begin with.

Our first home was an investment house. The wife and I wanted to live cheaply until our son moved out and we could find our forever home. We paid less than $60,000 for it - put $6,000 in it (tops) and sold it and made about $30,000. Not to mention our monthly expenses were extremely low. But, to do that we had to live in the hood (Mid-Del area) and not care what other people thought about the fact we were living in the hood.

Last year, we moved into a 2-story home in an older (but nice) part of Edmond (SE 15 and I-35 area). For us it is an ideal location on 2.5 acres with two driveways (one circle), tons of mature trees, huge rock formations, a pond with fountain and the house payment (all inclusive) is less than $1,300 month and (surprisingly enough) our utilities are even less than they were in our smaller home in SE OKC. The house was built in the 60's (first house in the neighborhood, owned by the Vance family) and needed nothing other than interior updating. We've put about $6,000 into it so far (mostly doing the work ourselves) and could sell it tomorrow and double our money at least (we know, we've already been offered it).

So, for us, used is a no brainer.

The problem I see with a lot of newer nicer homes (as an investment) is that unless you have the ideal location/lot, one day you'll be trying to sell your $300,000+ home that is now 10+ years old and wanting to make money. I just don't see the $300,000+ homes increasing in value (measurably) unless you're constantly updating them ($$$$$) when you can build/buy a new home for close to the same price.

My mom bought a brand new home recently in Edmond and she knows she'll never make money on the house because it was already $330,000+ to begin with. But, its her 'forever' home. It will be paid for and will be something she'll one day leave for family.

That said, I have a friend that hasn't lived in any of his new houses for longer than a year because he keeps selling them for a good profit and building a new one. The plan is to do this 2-3 more times and then pay cash for their ideal forever home and not have a mortgage. His biggest advantage though is that he is also his own general contractor and is very good at it.

[Motley]

My idea would not be to add-on, but to remodel and update the kitchen, bath, floors, etc. into my personal style and then to live there for the long term.

I went a little overboard in the house in San Diego, remodeling baths and kitchen and floors and landscaping, but I did what I wanted and relied on the high appreciation rate to take care of my overreach. I would be more prudent in this market for sure, but I enjoy the adventure of remodeling and getting exactly what I want. I just don't want it to be wasted with a deteriorating neighborhood.

[warreng88]

My wife and I live in Crestwood which is bound by NW 23rd, May, 16th and Villa (I believe). We have a 1,116 square foot, two bed, one bath house on a big rectangular lot. We have no interest in moving to Edmond or buying something brand new because we prefer the look of the older homes. We think there is more character and not every house looks the same unlike a lot of homes in Edmond. Our house was move in ready and we could have lived with it just the way it was for a long time but there were things we preferred to do to upgrade the property. We put in new windows, a new front door, a 200 square foot deck off the back porch, new fence, repainted the trim and took out an old, broken koi pond. All of those things we had to hire out because we did not have the expertise to do them well or right. We did, however, redo the kitchen repainting the cabinets, walls and replacing the hardware. We have hardwood floors (original to the 1930's house) throughout except for the bathroom and closets and there was tile in the kitchen. We had a guy come in and take up the old tile, repair any hardwood floor planks that needed to be and then refinish the floors. I think we could sell our house for at least $40,000 more than what we paid for it in 2007 with only putting under $20,000. Of course, a lot of that has to do with the neighborhood, in general, getting better and other people fixing up their houses. We are probably going to buy a new, larger home (1,700-2,000 square feet, 3 bed, 2 bath, at least) in the next few years and will be looking at Linwood, MP/HH, Edgemere, Crown Heights areas. As much as I would like the idea of living downtown or midtown, the type of home we want would be way out of our price range and we love having a yard and having people over to BBQ. Just my two cents.

[BBatesokc]

We have no interest in moving to Edmond or buying something brand new because we prefer the look of the older homes. We think there is more character and not every house looks the same unlike a lot of homes in Edmond.

That generalization actually doesn't apply to most of Edmond. While there are certainly cookie cutter neighborhoods (old and new), we found while we were looking to buy in Edmond that there were/are plenty of unique homes and homes with character.

Ours was built in about 1964 and fortunately came to us with a brand new heat and air unit, double hung windows and lots of insulation.

I've known 3 or 4 people who live(ed) in your general area and to the East and all did well when they sold their homes.

We looked in the Crown Heights area for a few years, but we'd have paid 3-5x what we paid in Edmond to live in the same type of house with a large lot (and then we'd still have to deal with militant HOA's).

If money were no object we'd have our place in Edmond and a loft in downtown OKC.

[warreng88]

That generalization actually doesn't apply to most of Edmond. While there are certainly cookie cutter neighborhoods (old and new), we found while we were looking to buy in Edmond that there were/are plenty of unique homes and homes with character.

Ours was built in about 1964 and fortunately came to us with a brand new heat and air unit, double hung windows and lots of insulation.

I've known 3 or 4 people who live(ed) in your general area and to the East and all did well when they sold their homes.

We looked in the Crown Heights area for a few years, but we'd have paid 3-5x what we paid in Edmond to live in the same type of house with a large lot (and then we'd still have to deal with militant HOA's).

If money were no object we'd have our place in Edmond and a loft in downtown OKC.

Another thing I didn't mention because I didn't think it was really relevant (mostly talking about homes and not really location) is that we like being close to the local restaurants and local happenings if you will. My wife is three minutes from her work and I am 15. We are 10 minutes from Midtown, 15 minutes from DT/BT and 10 minutes from Penn Square Mall. In Edmond, a lot of those things would be double the distance at least. I have friends who live off Danforth and Penn and anytime we want to meet for dinner, we always end up going to a big chain restaurant up on Memorial because they don't want to drive the extra ten minutes to get something more local and better. We usually end up going to them but now we don't see them as much because we don't want to go to Chili's, Friday's or BJ's on a Saturday night. We would rather spend our time waiting at a restaurant like Mama Roja's, Red Rock or somewhere in Midtown with better food and less flare.

In regards to your second sentence, can you give me some examples where I can find some older homes for sale in the $150-$200k range in Edmond? I know there are brand new homes in that price range, but I haven't seen anything built before the 1980's that have much character or are within our price range.

[warreng88]

Oh and I forgot to mention, we can't stand the ranch style homes. Just personal preference.

[Plutonic Panda]

That generalization actually doesn't apply to most of Edmond. While there are certainly cookie cutter neighborhoods (old and new), we found while we were looking to buy in Edmond that there were/are plenty of unique homes and homes with character.

Ours was built in about 1964 and fortunately came to us with a brand new heat and air unit, double hung windows and lots of insulation.

I've known 3 or 4 people who live(ed) in your general area and to the East and all did well when they sold their homes.

We looked in the Crown Heights area for a few years, but we'd have paid 3-5x what we paid in Edmond to live in the same type of house with a large lot (and then we'd still have to deal with militant HOA's).

If money were no object we'd have our place in Edmond and a loft in downtown OKC.

When someone comes in with an agenda, they already have something written down before they even know what the person is looking for. You can't rationalize with people like that. Funny enough, I having been taking photographs over the past week of Edmond and the new spring season and have taken plenty of pictures of nice houses that are unique. Will be interesting to have him chime in about that.

[warreng88]

When someone comes in with an agenda, they already have something written down before they even know what the person is looking for. You can't rationalize with people like that. Funny enough, I having been taking photographs over the past week of Edmond and the new spring season and have taken plenty of pictures of nice houses that are unique. Will be interesting to have him chime in about that.

i wouldn't call it an agenda as much as a personal preference and opinion. For the record, I have driven all over Edmond, we have driven by a lot of homes in Edmond and none of them really appeal to me. Maybe I am just not driving through the right areas. Again, it is personal preference and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I would love to see your pictures of nice unique homes in Edmond, it would expand my knowledge of the area. I have friends who live in Edmond because they don't want to deal with older homes in or around my area because it is ghetto (it is not) and all the schools are terrible (they are not). I guess this has caused me to have a little bit of frustration with people in Edmond because I know so many people who share the same opinions about OKC not being a good place to live and insulting me at the same time, whether they know it or not.

To your second sentence, you can't rationalize with people like that? Like me? I have shown I am a very rational poster who is willing to admit my mistakes and when I am wrong. Please know who you are talking to before insulting me.

[BBatesokc]

...can you give me some examples where I can find some older homes for sale in the $150-$200k range in Edmond? I know there are brand new homes in that price range...

There are lots of examples of Edmond homes in that price range, but someone would have to know more before they could know if your budget matches their examples. Are you talking fixer upper or move in ready? 1,2,3 or 4 bedrooms? Tiny, standard or large lot? More than one living room? I personally like older, smaller, quaint homes as opposed to larger 'modern' homes. My biggest issue when I was looking in Edmond was not wanting to be any further West of I-35 than say Bryant or maybe Broadway. I also didn't want to be any further north and than say 2nd.

As for new construction - I've seen a lot of homes around $150,000 and I personally thought they were all pretty bad - unimaginative exteriors and interiors that resembled nicer (boring) apartments. We decided if we bought new we'd have to be looking in the $250K+ area and most likely closer to $300K+ to be our forever home.

In the end our choice came down to proximity to the highway (we can be downtown in morning rush hour in 20 minutes), finding a house with a family-ish non-pretentious feel and an excellent large lot. We could have gone brand new, but for the same money we'd have been on a tiny lot in a packed neighborhood.

We found a few we really liked in the Edgemere area, but the prices went north of $300,000 really quickly for older homes that needed some upkeep and were too chopped up for just a family of two.

[warreng88]

There are lots of examples of Edmond homes in that price range, but someone would have to know more before they could know if your budget matches their examples. Are you talking fixer upper or move in ready? 1,2,3 or 4 bedrooms? Tiny, standard or large lot? More than one living room? I personally like older, smaller, quaint homes as opposed to larger 'modern' homes. My biggest issue when I was looking in Edmond was not wanting to be any further West of I-35 than say Bryant or maybe Broadway. I also didn't want to be any further north and than say 2nd.

I wouldn't be opposed to a little work, but want it mostly move-in ready. If we are spending $200-$250k, I don't want to have to do a lot of work, but would mind some easy painting and landscaping. Would prefer not to have to gut a kitchen or bathroom unless we can get it for $50,000 less. Three bed or more, two bath, standard lot, one living room, older than the 1960's preferably. If we are going to be in Edmond, I don't want to be west of Portland, north of 2nd or east of I-35.

As for new construction - I've seen a lot of homes around $150,000 and I personally thought they were all pretty bad - unimaginative exteriors and interiors that resembled nicer (boring) apartments. We decided if we bought new we'd have to be looking in the $250K+ area and most likely closer to $300K+ to be our forever home.

Yeah, no new construction for us. A lot of the homes we have seen that are new look exactly like the five on either side of them. My best friend lives in Thornhill. I have been to his house more times than I can count and I still have to look for a particular color of shutters to identify his home from the others on the street.

In the end our choice came down to proximity to the highway (we can be downtown in morning rush hour in 20 minutes), finding a house with a family-ish non-pretentious feel and an excellent large lot. We could have gone brand new, but for the same money we'd have been on a tiny lot in a packed neighborhood.

We found a few we really liked in the Edgemere area, but the prices went north of $300,000 really quickly for older homes that needed some upkeep and were too chopped up for just a family of two.

As for lot size, I would like something no larger than a quarter of an acre. Our back yard now is 90 feet deep and 40 feet wide and then about 30 feet to the street and 40 feet wide in the front. I like to take care of the yard and not spend four hours doing it, but I also don't like zero lot lines.

[Motley]

For a fixer-upper, I want to stay under $200K and then put in up to $50K to modernize and freshen (My brother is a contractor, so I expect a lot of bang for the buck). Good bones, as they say, and solid construction with some landscaping and mature plants. I would do new flooring, countertops, freshen cabinets, new fixtures, some new appliances and the like, but I don't want to have to rewire, replumb, install new heating/ac and the like.



Any thoughts on the areas north and west of Lake Hefner but inside the loop? Getting far from Edmond, but I am not the one that will have to commute, so what the heck.

[warreng88]

For a fixer-upper, I want to stay under $200K and then put in up to $50K to modernize and freshen (My brother is a contractor, so I expect a lot of bang for the buck). Good bones, as they say, and solid construction with some landscaping and mature plants. I would do new flooring, countertops, freshen cabinets, new fixtures, some new appliances and the like, but I don't want to have to rewire, replumb, install new heating/ac and the like.



Any thoughts on the areas north and west of Lake Hefner but inside the loop? Getting far from Edmond, but I am not the one that will have to commute, so what the heck.

My brother lives in the Greens just north of Lake Hefner. His neighborhood is bound by Lake Hefner Parkway, Memorial, Meridian and NW 122nd. I personally believe he overpaid for the house he bought but there are plenty of nice homes with good bones in that area. He is having to scrape the popcorn ceilings (everywhere), redo the kitchen (formica and broken cabinets), completely gut the master bedroom and then replace all the carpet with hardwoods throughout the house. I think after he does all that, he won't be able to get his money back for what he wants to sell it for. There is a drainage area to the east of that neighborhood between there and the southbound onramp to Hefner Parkway but I don't think that has changed the flood plain. Overall, a nice area, easy highway access, The Greens golf course with tennis courts and a descent restaurant and a few little pocket parks. I think it also depends on your style. My brother's is more modern (he lived in Williamsburg, Brooklyn) and mine is more traditional. He wants to have concrete countertops and very modern finishes in the kitchen and bathroom. I think he is planning on buying most of his cabinets from Ikea if that helps.

[BBatesokc]

For a fixer-upper, I want to stay under $200K and then put in up to $50K to modernize and freshen

I would agree when talking about traditional lot sizes. We upped our budget a bit on our current home because of the large lot.

Here's an example of our lot and I think we did well for the location in Edmond and staying around $230K.

[Motley]

Well, for a similar place, I'd find room in my budget. Very nice!

[mister_s]

As mentioned above, The Greens is a great neighborhood and has some unique homes. If you have some flexibility, there are plenty of neighborhoods in the Urban Core that are seeing property values soar. Paseo, The Plaza, SoSA, Midtown, etc. I work for a locally-owned lender and we have great products for renovation. A lot of people are buying the properties and financing the cost of the renovation into their mortgage. I'm not pitching any services but if you have any questions about the financing side, feel free to get in touch.

[Filthy]

I would ask if you had any school aged children? All of these posters, are offering up great information on housing, for both investment purposes, and wanting a forever home. Yet, a lot of the areas being recommended would scare the living pop out of me, in regards to school offerings in those areas. A lot of home buyers with children base their purchase on school district being the main driving factor. I'm sure you are smart enough to figure that out on your own...but I didn't see it mentioned as a concern, or a driving factor.

[warreng88]

I would ask if you had any school aged children? All of these posters, are offering up great information on housing, for both investment purposes, and wanting a forever home. Yet, a lot of the areas being recommended would scare the living pop out of me, in regards to school offerings in those areas. A lot of home buyers with children base their purchase on school district being the main driving factor. I'm sure you are smart enough to figure that out on your own...but I didn't see it mentioned as a concern, or a driving factor.

That's a very good point and one to consider. We live at NW 21st and May and if we remained there and had kids, they would go to Cleveland Elementary which gets a 7 out of 10 rating on GreatSchools - Public and Private School Ratings, Reviews and Parent Community. Of course, the new DT school would be a possibility as well. Both my wife and I have music backgrounds so we plan on our children attending Classen SAS for middle and high school or Dove Science Academy if that works out. If the child really wants to get into sports, I would be ok with that and we would need to find a school that has a good reputation for whatever sport the child wants to play but also great academics.