Do Attorneys Ever Lie?

[Dennis Heaton]

According to Oklahoma Statute, Title 5, Chapter 1, Section 3..."It is the duty of an attorney and counselor: To employ for the purpose of maintaining the causes confided to him such means only as are consistent with truth, and never to seek to mislead the judges by any artifice or false statements of facts or law."

So, what can a party do when there is absolutely no doubts whatsoever that an attorney has in fact deliberately LIED to a judge?

[kelroy55]

I would say report them to the Bar Association.

[Midtowner]

If you're a party to a case, the obvious thing to do would be to introduce evidence to the court showing the attorney lied. That said, I wouldn't be so quick to judge the attorney. We only know what our clients tell us and sometimes that puts us in precarious situations as advocates.

Now if you have proof that the attorney knew the truth but lied anyway, that's going to create serious problems for him at the Bar Association and I encourage you to report him ASAP.

[PennyQuilts]

Well, first, let's separate a bold faced lie (or even a half lie) from simply not putting on bad evidence.

When you say "lie," I assume you mean a lawyer standing up in court and deliberately making fable statements (or perhaps letting their client do so when they know better).

Second, you have to separate fact from opinion. If a client says his estranged wife was furious at the kids all the time, it may be untrue but it may also be an honest reflection of what he believes. Or it may just be a different take on what constitutes furious.

Laypeople also tend to state their conclusions in the form of statements. Example, they might claim (and the lawyer repeat) that, "She says she hates her mother," in truth, she may never have said that. She may have said her mother was lazy or mean or a bad cook and the client just did the interpretation and attributed the conclusion to her. Dealing with families, I ran into this all the time - you have to really pin down the truth of a statement before repeating it.

Most lawyers I know have a greater respect for the truth in testimony than 95% of laypeople. I've regularly had clients or their family members just assume lawyers lie and that isn't the case. Good lawyers caught in a "lie" because they were lied to by their client are typically ashamed, angry and horrified. We all know clients lie to their attorneys but it is our job to try to ferret that out - At best, they look stupid or sloppy and no one wants that. Yes, I've seen some lawyers lie and they are pretty much despised by the rest of us and not trusted by the courts. Even if we don't think it is deliberate is smacks of incompetence or getting too personally involved in a case to do proper vetting.

I know a crack criminal defense attorney back in a Virginia who was/is spectacular. Tiny little thing, smart, does death penalty cases, defends the lowest of the low. She tells her clients they are leasing her good name and once it's gone she can't get it back. The woman's honor is above reproach and she isn't going to sully it by lying to try to win a case. No case is worth lying to win. Only desparate lawyers think a victory is worth that price. Most of us are professional enough we don't need to make our clients' woes our own. You don't need to make up stuff if the facts are on your side.

[Dennis Heaton]

Midtowner...That is the exact question I had. Absent any verifiable evidence, how can an attorney know that a client is telling them the truth? My neighbor was accused of doing something that was practically impossible for him to have done. I was asked to be a character witness and can only testify to what I know, but you know how that goes. He is representing himself and is scheduled to be back in court in mid June. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Dennis Heaton]

When you say "lie," I assume you mean a lawyer standing up in court and deliberately making fable statements (or perhaps letting their client do so when they know better).

Bingo!!!

[PennyQuilts]

Character witnesses are just there to discuss character testimony. If you are only getting your information from your friend, good luck. You may well be provided additional information at trial and it typically goes something like, "were you aware that your friend did blah, blah, blah...?" Bringing in evidence of good character throws open the doors to a lot of history not necessarily directly related to the case at hand.

Can't tell you how many times I've had abusive parents drag in the whole block and half their relatives to testify on behalf of their character. Usually, we evoke "the rule" to exclude witnesses who may testify later but there have been many times in a case like that I deliberately don't bring it up so they can stay. Most of the time abuse cases are confidential and the only people talking are the abuser. The way I see it, the more eyes aware of what is actually going on the better protected the child will be if returned to that parent.

[kevinpate]

An attorney who lies to the court and gets caught can face the wrath of the court, dealing with direct contempt, and dealing with the bar association. His or her name will also be mud with that judge, if not all judges in the district, and likely beyond, in short order.

An attorney who deliberately sanctions a known lie by client or witness during testimony may also find a suborning perjury charge in their short term future.

Dennis, you began by asking what happens if an attorney deliberately lies in court to the judge, but now we are discussing a neighbor representing himself and possibly calling you as a witness. Unless the neighbor is an attorney, which may be the circumstance, I am a bit confused.

For what it's worth, while I am a tad curious, a public forum is also often not a good place to drop too many details.

[Dennis Heaton]

kevinpate...No, he is not an attorney. Unfortunately, he cannot afford one. And I would never go into any detail(s) about someone else's case.

[kevinpate]

You mentioned he is accused of something.
If it is OKC Municipal Court or state District Court, and he qualifies as being indigent, there are public defenders available to assist him, unless there is no possibility of incarceration.

If he is a veteran or active duty, the state bar has a program to help folk obtain volunteer counsel.

[Midtowner]

kevinpate...No, he is not an attorney. Unfortunately, he cannot afford one. And I would never go into any detail(s) about someone else's case.

Interesting choice of words.

[Midtowner]

If he is a veteran or active duty, the state bar has a program to help folk obtain volunteer counsel.

I have a real problem with that program which gives free counsel to active duty military. A lot of the time, these guys are the breadwinners. To then give them a free attorney in a family law context (been there/done that) just isn't fair.

[kevinpate]

Mid, I understand. I declined to participate in one case, but thus far only one. Shared my perspective with the organizers as to why, then took on a different matter afterwards.

[Dennis Heaton]

Interesting choice of words.

As in..."my neighbor." Now, if it were my ex-wife...

[RadicalModerate]

In response to the OP/OQ I can only offer this:
An Attorney who Lies isn't a True Scotsman Nor a Pipe.
(that sort of Attorney is a Lawyer . . . or possibly an advertising Lawyer.)
(you know . . . the ones' that mos' fo'k makes jokes about . . . and is/are completely legal)

Sorry . . . been watching way too many BritDrams on Netflix lately . . . =)
(isn't there sort of a class action lawsuit implied here? =)

(call my Solicitor!! posthaste!!)

[RadicalModerate]

For purposes of authentic veracity here is Exhibit A: =)


Think about it . . . It's not "anti-Semanitc" . . . ?

Should you choose not to do so, I will be forced to post a pic of No True Scotsman.
replete with those annoying bagpipes or whatever. =)
(neil de grasse Tyson said it was ok . . .)

[Dennis Heaton]

RM...don't be dis'n the Scots. Uh-Uh!

[PennyQuilts]

For purposes of authentic veracity here is Exhibit A: =)


Think about it . . . It's not "anti-Semanitc" . . . ?

Should you choose not to do so, I will be forced to post a pic of No True Scotsman.
replete with those annoying bagpipes or whatever. =)
(neil de grasse Tyson said it was ok . . .)

c'est la Francois!

[RadicalModerate]

Objection, Yer Honer . . .
Counsel is suggesting that we need to start talking like frogs . . .
(sorry . . . I just got back from running an errand with the radio tuned to BBC news. something about India or Pakistan or whatever. Reminded me of Eric Idle on Monty Python. . . .)

[Prunepicker]

Yes, lawyers lie so we don't have to.

[hoya]

This thread just got really weird...

[Midtowner]

I get the no true scotsman reference. I'm sure attorneys lie. I have caught them in the middle of telling whoppers on their clients' behalf and called it to the court's attention. There are very few who do it/have done it and their reputations are ruined.