Lumberyard

[Pete]

Really? Because here are the bulk of the posts on this page besides the ones debating name options. Josh is the only poster who seems to question the legitimacy of the development.

There has been plenty of healthy skepticism as well:

I had pretty low confidence in this deal being real, but it was nice to see what's possible for that site someday.

It's just a few renderings. Really, it only would take me a week or two to put this together.

At least we only had our hopes up for one day instead of multiple years before being disappointed. I can live with one day of exciting daydreaming followed by a letdown.

Since the property has not sold as of yet, I suspect this is a conceptual plan by the potential developers to help drum up financing and/or investors.

It might be just a wild concept but I suspect it is tied to the new owners who are trying to generate interest in a potential development.

I've said all the way along this is probably just a conceptual plan.

Several years ago maybe. In 2014, a couple of low-paid intern architects could put these images out in 10 days.

[Urbanized]

Yeah Pete, I agree, but Pickles seemed to be indicating the opinion was overwhelmingly skeptical, and I was pointing out that on the very page we were posting on there were virtually zero posts offering doubts and many, many Kool-Aid drinkers. I just hate to see folks get whipped into a frenzy over an apparently unlikely project, and then months later see it held ups as "yet another example of Bricktown's failures" or "why can't OKC ever deliver on cool projects?"

I'll also point out that Cuatro was taken to task after making the observations you quote regarding how easy it would be for a firm to churn those out on a whim.

[Urbanized]

Yeah, sorry Pete, just read through past several pages again and it is pretty exclusively Kool-Aid material. Except for good ole Debbie Downer, yours truly. I'm just afraid folks are setting themselves up for massive disappointment on this one.

[Pete]

^

I think what you are seeing is people having fun with the idea of what could be. Nothing wrong with that, and some will be disappointed no matter what happens. We still have people complain about Devon Tower being downsized, for goodness sake.

I know enough people personally that post here to know that they are generally a well-grounded group, with some hyperbole excepted.

That happens to the best of us... I remember Steve posting something to the effect of, "What if every downtown dream came true?" when teasing about what turned out to be Project 180. And now about something that "will make Dallas and Kansas City jealous".


When it comes down to it, we are all development fanboys otherwise we wouldn't be here. While many get carried away, that's all part of it and I think most get that.

[Urbanized]

I agree with all of that, and surely have my fanboy moments. Again, I hope I'm dead wrong on this deal; it would be incredible for the neighborhood where I make my living. But I don't think I am.

[Spartan]

Development fanboys unite!

[G.Walker]

Even though I have my doubts about this project, OKC is due for a development like this. If it does come to fruition, we are looking at 3-4 years before this would be completed. And I would suspect it would be done in phases, with the first phase for the smaller towers. Every project that comes up is not a done deal until dirt starts turning, so we just have to wait and see.

[catcherinthewry]

OK, so apparently the project is fantasy. A spec portfolio-building exercise.

Urbanized, after this quote I asked for clarification and got no response. Now after reading a news article quoting the the person who has the property under contract as saying he wants to build a hotel and residential properties you call me a Kool-aid drinker for saying the following:

I'm glad to learn there's something behind this rumor.

Which quote is more accurate? Neither I, nor most of the other posters ever said this project is a done deal, just that there was something (like a news article with quotes from a real person) behind this rumor. Since you refuse to disclose any reason behind your Debbie Downer negativism I'll choose to go with what's been reported.

For the record, since the property is under contract and there is due diligence being done and a reputable architectural firm has produced renderings for the property and a real person has stated that he wants to develop the property, I'll chose to remain optimistic that there is "something behind this rumor". Although, I doubt that what we have seen will be what we wind up with, If the sale is completed as proposed there will be some sort of development on this site. No one is going to spend millions on this land and go to the trouble to commission renderings and then let this site be a "spec portfolio-building exercise".

Signed, a Development Fanboy

[Urbanized]

"Refuse to disclose any reason" = refuse to violate confidences, even if doing so won't be appreciated by anonymous posters demanding answers on a message board. Apparently some people will never understand this very basic tenet of business and personal relationships.

If you'll take the time to review my posts on this board you will find that I am hardly a Debbie Downer in general, and in fact I am closer to being one of the "fanboys" people allude to. I have actually been a downtown OKC development fanboy (even in a professional capacity) for many years before posting here, or before this board existed. I do, however, like to temper my fanboyism with a healthy dose of reality when needed.

I just happen to have been told in this instance by persons who I trust that there appears to not be much substance to this particular proposal. When I first inquired there was speculation that it might merely be an exercise, now the speculation runs that it might be something entirely different, but that doesn't mean it's any closer to being a reality. Believe me or don't.

Do I think this location will be developed eventually? Of course. But it doesn't appear that the development will be done by this individual, and he even says as much in the interview, if you read between the lines.

[Urbanized]

By the way, you didn't quote the part where I said "don't shoot the messenger," which as it turns out was an especially prescient sentiment.

[soonerguru]

Urbanized, I think most folks here recognize this as a less than 50/50 possibility. It's OK to discuss it, however. When the rumor is totally deflated, we'll jump on the bandwagon of something else.

Regarding the developer's portfolio of projects, that may or may not be germane for discussion. He may have partners waiting in the wings who do know how to execute a development of this magnitude. Do we know that? No. Do we know that's not the case? Again, no. There's a lot we do not know and nothing aired in the public sphere either affirms or denies that this project is happening.

None of us stake our careers on betting on projects like this. Therefore, who is right and wrong is not relevant.

The fact is, however, that OKC is in a position to support a high-rise residential complex. It may not be this guy who builds it but it's fun to speculate. No harm in that.

[Urbanized]

Again, I agree it is a beautiful drawing and it's fun to think about. I just don't want to see it represented as some sort of black eye on downtown/Bricktown development in the likely event that it doesn't happen as advertised. If you don't think that is how it would go down around here you haven't been paying attention.

[soonerguru]

Again, I agree it is a beautiful drawing and it's fun to think about. I just don't want to see it represented as some sort of black eye on downtown/Bricktown development in the likely event that it doesn't happen as advertised. If you don't think that is how it would go down around here you haven't been paying attention.

I've been posting here since 2004 so I'm quite aware how things go down here. That said, I don't think people are going to judge Bricktown if this project doesn't take flight. Seriously, man, take a step back a bit. If this doesn't happen I think whatever enmity that will exist will reflect on the developer and nothing else.

[Pete]

Also, we need to stop giving so much power and influence to a handful of negative people.

Really not that hard to see their rhetoric for exactly what it is.

[catcherinthewry]

"Refuse to disclose any reason" = refuse to violate confidences, even if doing so won't be appreciated by anonymous posters demanding answers on a message board. Apparently some people will never understand this very basic tenet of business and personal relationships.

I have no problem with you not violating confidences, but you seemed to have a problem with me lending more credence to a published report than to an "anonymous poster". You seem to be saying " You should believe me, not this published report, I just can't tell you why." And while I've always thought you've been a valued contributor to this site, please try to put yourself in my position, i.e. not knowing what you know, so I am unable to weigh the two against each other.

If you'll take the time to review my posts on this board you will find that I am hardly a Debbie Downer in general

I was just quoting you, not calling you a DD.

[Urbanized]

I'm not an anonymous poster. I've been open on this site about who I am since the very first time I posted here years ago. Literally my very first post, IIRC. Perhaps the published report should have asked some of the questions I brought up.

[Just the facts]

Development fanboys? Does this mean we have to start going to DevCon dressed as our favorite developer/planner? If so, I am going as Georges-Eugène Haussmann and if anyone shows up as Le Corbusier prepare for a beat down .

[Spartan]

I'll go as Frederick Law Olmsted.

[HangryHippo]

Development fanboys? Does this mean we have to start going to DevCon dressed as our favorite developer/planner? If so, I am going as Georges-Eugène Haussmann and if anyone shows up as Le Corbusier prepare for a beat down .

Ha, that's great.

[DavidD_NorthOKC]

Development fanboys? Does this mean we have to start going to DevCon dressed as our favorite developer/planner? If so, I am going as Georges-Eugène Haussmann and if anyone shows up as Le Corbusier prepare for a beat down .

Or dressed as your favorite tower.

[kevinpate]

Someone could go to DevCon as Stage Center. Face it, not every costume can earn one both groupies and assassins at the same time.

[warreng88]

Or dressed as your favorite tower.

I would go as the Biltmore. Not the classic one that used to be downtown, the one out on Meridian. It would confuse people and I would laugh...

[OKCRT]

I would go as the Biltmore. Not the classic one that used to be downtown, the one out on Meridian. It would confuse people and I would laugh...

IM Pei m "That's All Folks"

[Pete]

I heard today about a specific set of schematic plans for one of the two 20-story towers.

Shows retail at ground level, parking on 2-4, 5 is common area / pool and 6-20 are residential.

It was labeled "Phase II" which implies the taller tower may come first.


So, this is more than a "fantasy". There are specific plans that have been created for at least one of the towers.

Doesn't mean anything will get built, but it's yet another sign this project has some substance to it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Awesome!