OKC Thunder 2013 - 2014

[dankrutka]

TO's are not as big a problem when the defense is performing to previous standards. However, if winning a title is the goal, both will need to be drastically improved.

The Thunder average 15.3 Turnovers per game this season. They averaged 16.3 in 2011-2012 when they went to the finals. The Heat have averaged 15.2 (2011-2012) the year they beat OKC in the finals. The 2008-2009 champion Celtics turned it over 15.6 per game when they won the title. There are certainly teams that turned it over less, but you can certainly compete for, and win a title, turning it over at the Thunder's current pace. It's good to have less turnovers, but overall offensive (and defensive) efficiency is more important... and the Thunder do well in that category.

[warreng88]

No. KD has been the go-to guy since Russ has been here. What has changed? Also, the Thunder had a worse record during the time Russ was out compared to prior to his injury. This team as constructed is not winning a title without Russ playing at a high level. I agree that winning a title is the best way to keep the core here, but there has been no indication that Russ is looking to leave (er, be traded) like Harden.

I think KD getting more press than usual due to his ridiculous high play is what has changed. The Thunder had a record of 28-10 (73.68%) with Russ and a 24-9 (72.72%) without him this season. So their winning percentage is very close and a one game could swing it even. Although some of those loses with Russ could be contributed to him getting back into the rotation after being out for several games. Again, I am not advocating to trade him, please don't think that at all, I could just see him wanting to be the man somewhere else now that the Thunder are usually the first story on SC regardless of what happened so the press is much higher on him than it used to be.

[dankrutka]

Yes, KD is getting more press, but he's always gotten a lot. I haven't seen any indication that Russ is jealous and craves more attention. Just seems like a pointless thing to speculate about considering there's no evidence to support the theory. We could guess the same thing for other players also... Maybe Serge wants to be a bigger part if the offense somewhere else?

[warreng88]

Yes, KD is getting more press, but he's always gotten a lot. I haven't seen any indication that Russ is jealous and craves more attention. Just seems like a pointless thing to speculate about considering there's no evidence to support the theory. We could guess the same thing for other players also... Maybe Serge wants to be a bigger part if the offense somewhere else?

You're probably right. My brother and I were talking about it Tuesday night and I just thought I would bring it up to see what other people think. I don't see KD going anywhere for a while because he is so low-key but with Russ's more recent emergence as a fashion guy and going to parties all over the US, I can't help but think that is kind of what Harden did when he played here too. Now, they are completely different roles (starting PG versus sixth man) but it is kind of like deja vu for me.

[catcherinthewry]

I would worry more about Reggie leaving for a bigger role than Russell.

[Laramie]

Kevin Durant is a class act player and he wants Russell Westbrook & Serge Ibaka to be apart of OKC's big three.

James Harden's agent got a little greedy on his behalf and overplayed his hand. Sam Presti indicated that he wanted to get Harden's contract finalized and wasn't going to play games about his worth.

Harden is in Houston with Dwight Howard who thinks he's too pretty to get his suit dirty. Houston will never win a championship with these 'Frankenstein pieces' thrown together unless Kevin McHale figures out how to satisfy all of these super egos (Harden, Howard, Lin, Asik, Beverley) pulling in their own direction.


Sam Presti has done an outstanding job with a core of players who are willing to work together and know their role in the scheme of things. The more the Thunder's core play together (Durant-Westbrook-Ibaka) along with the long-term addition of one more piece like a Caron Butler and building through the draft (Steven Adams, Perry Jones, Reggie Jackson) the Thunder will continue to be a championship caliber contender. The Thunder could have used a player like Mike Miller who chose to return to Memphis; meanwhile, Butler will do.

Three players on the Miami Heat (James, Bosh, Wade) probably account for approximately 75-80% of the team's salary:

Miami Heat 2014 Team Roster - ESPN

It's the continuity and development of these players getting to know one another's idiosyncrasies that molds a championship team. A few breaks, the Thunder could achieve that championship status. Once you sit on top of the summit, you become everyone's target (e.g., Miami Heat, Los Angeles Lakers, Boston Celtics, San Antonio Spurs, Dallas Mavericks); then it becomes expensive to keep these pieces together.

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[dankrutka]

James Harden's agent got a little greedy on his behalf and overplayed his hand. Sam Presti indicated that he wanted to get Harden's contract finalized and wasn't going to play games about his worth.

How did Harden's agent overplay his hand? I'd say he just played his hand. His client was offered a max, $80 million contract from the Rockets, which the Thunder were unwilling to offer so they traded Harden. I think it's silly to criticize Harden as selfish. Not many NBA players, or common workers, leave money on the table... much less $25 million. Also, Harden is now a legitimate superstar and it made a lot of sense for his career to leave. He's now the top guy on a top 5-6 team in the NBA that is a title contender. When you take your OKC glasses off, there's really nothing Harden did wrong except kind of mislead people a little about taking less. On the other hand, KD and Russ are making the max (Russ turned down the Rose bonus, but it's still max) and are the legitimate 1 and 2 guys on a title contender.

It's interesting how things work out. To this day I still think the best move would have been to sign Harden first & then trade Ibaka if necessary. I just think Collison and a draft pick could have made up for at least some of Ibaka's impact. Long term, the trade comes down to how well Jeremy Lamb (who has regressed as the season has gone on), Steven Adams, the Macs draft pick, Ibaka, and Reggie Jackson (who was not in the trade, but stepped into Harden's role) continue to progress.

If the Thunder win a title then the Harden trade debate will go away. If not, the trade will always be questioned.

[Laramie]

How did Harden's agent overplay his hand? I'd say he just played his hand. His client was offered a max, $80 million contract from the Rockets, which the Thunder were unwilling to offer so they traded Harden. I think it's silly to criticize Harden as selfish. Not many NBA players, or common workers, leave money on the table... much less $25 million. Also, Harden is now a legitimate superstar and it made a lot of sense for his career to leave. He's now the top guy on a top 5-6 team in the NBA that is a title contender. When you take your OKC glasses off, there's really nothing Harden did wrong except kind of mislead people a little about taking less. On the other hand, KD and Russ are making the max (Russ turned down the Rose bonus, but it's still max) and are the legitimate 1 and 2 guys on a title contender.

It's interesting how things work out. To this day I still think the best move would have been to sign Harden first & then trade Ibaka if necessary. I just think Collison and a draft pick could have made up for at least some of Ibaka's impact. Long term, the trade comes down to how well Jeremy Lamb (who has regressed as the season has gone on), Steven Adams, the Macs draft pick, Ibaka, and Reggie Jackson (who was not in the trade, but stepped into Harden's role) continue to progress.

If the Thunder win a title then the Harden trade debate will go away. If not, the trade will always be questioned.

I didn't criticize Harden; my opinion was solely directed at his agent.

So true, we will never know Harden's value if he had stayed with the Thunder. His agent made that decision.

I do know this; when we got to the finals against Miami, Harden looked as though he was lost. He didn't show up!

Agree, Harden's agent was entitled to get him more and he did--good riddance and good luck to James Harden. He's a valuable piece to Houston; however, Howard is the 'main man' in Houston--something he couldn't be in Los Angeles because Kobe Bryant runs the Lakers.

Harden $13,701,250 annually is what he is getting at Houston according to ESPN:

Houston Rockets 2014 Team Roster - ESPN

Ibaka currently receives $12,350,000 annually which is $1.5 million less than Harden. Harden is making $6.8 million less than Dwight Howard.

Ibaka is still a work-in-progress for the Thunder--he still has room to grow. He will continue to be a valuable piece in the Thunder's quest for a championship.

Oklahoma City Thunder 2014 Team Roster - ESPN

We're all entitled to our opinions; in my opinion--Harden didn't show up against Miami in the finals... Wish him well in Houston.

As far as Nick Collision, like Durant he is a permanent fixture with the Oklahoma City Thunder--he does all the yeoman (dirty) work; his value doesn't always show up in the statistical areas of the stat sheets.

Why would you even think about trading Nick Collison? Nick Collison earns ever penny of the $2.6 million he receives from the Thunder.

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[dankrutka]

Two things:

First, to criticize Harden's Finals performance without mentioning there's a good chance we wouldn't have been there without him (think game 5 vs. Spurs) is unfair. You can't judge any player on a small sample size of one series. Harden had a bad Finals, but he's still a good player and that almost always wins out long term. Remember, LeBron had an awful Finals in 2010. Is he a bad player?

Second, I did not suggest trading Collison, who is on a great contract. I said he could make up for some of Ibaka's production if we had chose not to re-sign Ibaka. So, I was actually saying Collison could have taken on a larger role if needed.

[Laramie]

Two things:

First, to criticize Harden's Finals performance without mentioning there's a good chance we wouldn't have been there without him (think game 5 vs. Spurs) is unfair. You can't judge any player on a small sample size of one series. Harden had a bad Finals, but he's still a good player and that almost always wins out long term. Remember, LeBron had an awful Finals in 2010. Is he a bad player?

Second, I did not suggest trading Collison, who is on a great contract. I said he could make up for some of Ibaka's production if we had chose not to re-sign Ibaka. So, I was actually saying Collison could have taken on a larger role if needed.

Unfair? Just calling it for what his performance was worth. So, you think my criticism of Harden wasn't deserved? Fair or fact? Harden didn't show up when we needed him.

There's a good chance we wouldn't have made it to the finals if any of our players didn't show up...

All of this sixth man scenario stuff doesn't mean anything. James Harden was just as prolific as a sixth man coming off the bench as any starter for the Thunder. He logged the minutes. Fact is when we needed him the most; he didn't show up.

Houston, you just might have a problem:

So who gets the blame? Is it Howard for not helping the Rockets make a huge leap on that end? Is it Harden for being one of the worst perimeter defenders in basketball? Is it the pieces around them, guys like Jeremy Lin and Chandler Parsons, who aren't holding up their end of the bargain? Is it head coach Kevin McHale's fault?--Can Houston Rockets Win a Title with Current Core? | Bleacher Report

Houston Rockets has great individual players; however this 'Frankenstein core' was not put together with complementary pieces like the Thunder. Harden would have been a great complement to the current Thunder core.

As far as Harden receiving max salary? Where do you get your figures? $13.7 was above Presti's offer. Dwight 'Pretty boy' Howard appears to be getting max on the Rockets' roster at $20.5. You would have thought that Harden got a big salary deal with Houston--these ESPN figures don't show that.

Small market franchises will continue to be at a disadvantage matching salary for salary. Durant does make his share in sponsorships. His next salary will require more from the Thunder as he will continue to get the maximum which should put him above what he is making now.

Houston Rockets 2014 Team Roster - ESPN

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[dankrutka]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Again, Harden showed up in game 5 against the Spurs or the Thunder would have been sitting at home. Again, judging Harden on one series is silly. Most Hall of Famers have had bad series and games when their teams needed them. If you don't remember, he was increasingly taking on a larger role at the end of games (see game 4 of Mavs series). Anyway, if you want to judge a player on 5 games that's fine, but Scott Brooks had a worse series than Harden and so did Perk and pretty much the rest of our role players, but you seem to have your scapegoat.

Also, KD does amazing with sponsorships. He's the 17th highest paid athlete in the WORLD (as of June 2013... Probably higher now). Also, the Thunder spend MORE than the Rockets currently. However, the Thunder offered Harden $55 million over 4 years (4.5 below max) and the Rockets offered him app. $80 million over 5 years (max)...

[Anonymous.]

Harden may have more money now. But he won't have any legit playoff runs. There is a difference between wanting to be a great player, and wanting to win. The current OKC players have made it clear they want to win.



Looking ahead at playoffs that are just weeks away. Does anyone see what team is in our way? OKC has to feel good about all series matchups this time. I think this (season) is our best shot, thus far.

[catcherinthewry]

Harden may have more money now. But he won't have any legit playoff runs.

That sounds like sour grapes, there is no way to predict that one way or the other.

As for the Thunder's playoff run, they may be favored in every Western conference matchup but they will be playing a quality opponent in every round and it will be tough to make to the Finals. I, personally think they will if healthy, but it won't be easy.

[Anonymous.]

No sour grapes here. Rockets are a decent team, with good players. They won't go anywhere. Dwight Howard is like dropping a fork into a blender.

[catcherinthewry]

Harden won't play with Howard forever. He's too good not to make a run or two on the right team.

[Laramie]

Sacramento tonight?

We've got to get back on the winning track. Not one of those games (against Kings) you take for granted; the Thunder will have to go out and perform before the home folks.

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[Easy180]

Centers don't matter much in today's league anyway. Almost never see a center taking the last shot to win a game these days.

[OSUMom]

Speaking of the Houston Rockets.... can anyone say KARMA?

Beverley loss would bite the Rockets « Hang Time Blog with Sekou Smith | NBA.com

[Laramie]

Speaking of the Houston Rockets.... can anyone say KARMA?

Beverley loss would bite the Rockets « Hang Time Blog with Sekou Smith | NBA.com

Are there any combs in Houston?


Patrick Beverely is in good spirits and optimistic.

When I first heard about the possible torn meniscus in his right knee (same as Westbrook), my thoughts were well, well, well... Not one to wish evil on anyone.

"What goes around, comes around."

Let's see how aggressive Patrick Beverley will be the next time he matches up against Westbrook. You can bet that he won't be purposely attempting to knock knees.

San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder

Wed, Nov 27: Home vs. San Antonio Win 94-88
Sat, Dec 21: @ San Antonio Win 113-100
Wed, Jan 22: @ San Antonio Win 111-105

Thu, Apr 3: Home vs. San Antonio (?)

Time to sweep the season series against the Spurs?

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.

[theparkman81]

Went to the game today, it was a great game against the jazz, crowd was good, the team played awesome.

[OSUMom]

Any word on if Reggie Jackson will be back for SA?

[dankrutka]

No sour grapes here. Rockets are a decent team, with good players. They won't go anywhere. Dwight Howard is like dropping a fork into a blender.

The Rockets are pretty good already and have a great owner. They'll be a contender for at least the next few years.

I'm most worried about the Clippers. Blake's taken his game to the next level. The west is going to be really tough...

[Anonymous.]

Durant isn't going to let anyone beat OKC this post season. He is a well-oiled machine here in the last few weeks.

Our (probably) last tough home game is Thursday against Spurs. Pretty much a must-win if we want to take #1 seed.

Spurs have a tough ending schedule.

[warreng88]

I am nervous/excited about the game this Thursday. I think KD will get his 25, Westbrook will get his if his shots are falling (he got six points in the first game against the Spurs) and Serge will get a double-double. Manu and Tony Parker are always the dark horses who could come out on fire or just suck it up until the end. Could be a good preview for the WCF.

[OKCisOK4me]

Thunder would have to finish out these last 9 games undefeated for my original prediction to come true. As it is, I think they'll win more than my revised prediction of 57 victories.