First National Center

[Pete]

We looked at the The Great Banking Hall for a wedding reception venue and was told they will be doing their last wedding in March and then will be closed for renovations. If they are starting renovations in the next couple months shouldn't they be presenting plans pretty soon?

Interesting.

I know Steve had heard plans were brewing but he said in his chat yesterday (if I interpretted his comments correctly) that that is now a dead deal.

Maybe there is a different initiative by the current owners?


And they wouldn't have to submit anything to design review unless they planned to change the exterior in some way. They would need a building permit however, and nothing has been filed as of yet.

[PhiAlpha]

Interesting.

I know Steve had heard plans were brewing but he said in his chat yesterday (if I interpretted his comments correctly) that that is now a dead deal.

Maybe there is a different initiative by the current owners?


And they wouldn't have to submit anything to design review unless they planned to change the exterior in some way. They would need a building permit however, and nothing has been filed as of yet.

On the dead deal, wasn't Steve referring to the purchase of the old garage on 10th and hudson that fell through?

[Pete]

He's said he thought it was dead and this is what he said in the chat yesterday:

Guest 11:09 a.m. Any new developments with the First National Center?

Steve Lackmeyer 11:09 a.m. Nope.

[Pete]

This is what Steve said in his last chat prior to last week:

Pat 11:14 a.m. Steve, Is anything exiciting about to happen with First National ? Thanks

Steve Lackmeyer 11:14 a.m. I wish, but I have my doubts.

[PhiAlpha]

This is what Steve said in his last chat prior to last week:

Ah, got it. Thanks

[Pete]

Some big news: I just learned from a very good source that the First National Center will soon be officially listed for sale (if it isn't already) by commercial real estate brokers.

We should hear something official very soon.


What this means is that it will go on the open market and give any developers who may be interested the opportunity to make a deal. And it comes at a very good time, with lots of local and now national developers in high gear all over town. And of course, all of downtown is experiencing great occupancy rates for hotel, residential and office. Even most the retail space has been filling up.


It's very likely that any sale would bring changes; likely the removal of some of the non-historic portion to add parking, the lack of which has been a limiter for the entire complex.

Here's hoping someone steps forward with a real passion for this property. You would think hotel and residential in the tower would be the most feasible, with the newer additions remaining office.

[Spartan]

Thanks for sharing the news, Pete. I've been checking this thread routinely for real development news lately. First National is the architectural jewel of Oklahoma. It is the triumphant symbol of our city's past, like the Empire State Building, or Terminal Tower.

[Pete]

I also meant to mention that since there will be a broker involved (I understand it will be CBRE) it's likely the sales price at least has some basis in reality and the owners are relatively serious about selling.

Most big brokerage firms won't put their name on a high-profile listing unless the price is at least somewhere near the real market value.


As a reminder, this group from Los Angeles paid $21 million in 2006, which everyone thought was way over the mark, especially at that time. Then in late 2012, they conducted some sort of internal deal (family members or at least direct business associates) for $5.3 million.

It's difficult to value a property like this, particularly one with so many problems and limitations, but you would have to think the real market value would be somewhere between those two numbers.

[OkieNate]

Thanks for sharing the news, Pete. I've been checking this thread routinely for real development news lately. First National is the architectural jewel of Oklahoma. It is the triumphant symbol of our city's past, like the Empire State Building, or Terminal Tower.

I've always likened First National to the Empire State building and City place to the GE building. This is incredibly exciting!

[bluedogok]

I've always likened First National to the Empire State building and City place to the GE building. This is incredibly exciting!

The ironic thing is City Place Tower actually has connections to the Empire State building, the same contractor built both.

[Spartan]

The ironic thing is City Place Tower actually has connections to the Empire State building, the same contractor built both.

I think going off of form, City Place is our Chrysler Tower.

[Urbanized]

Seriously though, Ramsey/Cityplace does share significant architectural elements/similarities with GE/Rockefeller Center. Glad that bluedog mentioned the contractor connection to the ESB. That whole skyscraper race story is fascinating and not dissimilar from ESB/Chrysler.

[bluedogok]

I worked in Cityplace for awhile with TAP, my window looked out to FNC. There was still an amazing amount of detail on FNC even up at 27th floor. The building race between the two is a very interesting story.

[Spartan]

Which is interesting bc today if two developers both wanted to build skyscrapers, instead of trying to out-do the other, there would be a meeting of the minds with just one going forward so as to not compete too much.

[Rover]

It isn't about not competing. It's about being able to get financing when there is a limited proven demand. If you are talking about über rich barons able to take losses for ego sake and are bankrolling it themselves, then maybe they would still let their egos drive it and not sound business judgement.

[soonerguru]

Enjoyed my visit to my doctor at First National, followed by a tasty and wildly affordable breakfast at Golden Dragon.

[OkieNate]

The ironic thing is City Place Tower actually has connections to the Empire State building, the same contractor built both.

That's extremely interesting! Thanks for that tidbit!

[Plutonic Panda]

Which is interesting bc today if two developers both wanted to build skyscrapers, instead of trying to out-do the other, there would be a meeting of the minds with just one going forward so as to not compete too much.

Competition is good. If we one trying to "out do the other" that would be even better. We would have taller and nicer buildings.

[Spartan]

It isn't about not competing. It's about being able to get financing when there is a limited proven demand. If you are talking about über rich barons able to take losses for ego sake and are bankrolling it themselves, then maybe they would still let their egos drive it and not sound business judgement.

Modern business judgment does not build landmarks.

[Rover]

Modern business judgment does not build landmarks.

Devon comes close to being landmark status. Usually it happens these days when it is shareholder money at stake, and not an individual's. A company like Devon had several business justifications....one being increasing their visibility and creating the impression that they are in the best position to recruit the best talent. The company did not have to finance the building, so banking wasn't an issue.

Any businessman that makes decisions to spend lavishly without proper financial constraints, and does so purely out of ego won't have their money for long. It works in Dubai because of the status of the Khalifas, but show me elsewhere where in a competitive business city that landmarks are built by individuals just because they can.

[soonerfan_in_okc]

It's for sale

First National Center up for sale | NewsOK.com

[ljbab728]

From Steve's article.

Cathy O’Connor, president of The Alliance for Development of Oklahoma City, said city officials are aware that a public/private partnership will be needed.

This is not surprising at all.

[Urbanized]

What?! TEAR IT DOWN!!

[Of Sound Mind]

What?! TEAR IT DOWN!!

I realize that you're trying to be sarcastic and funny, but it's starting to fall flat. At least this aging landmark is actually still being used actively, practically and continually—unlike some of the other dilapidating, "unique" landmarks that hardcore preservationists lamented their doom (without doing anything substantive to rectify the "injustice" of it all).

[Of Sound Mind]

What?! TEAR IT DOWN!!

I realize that you're being sarcastic and trying to be funny, but it's starting to fall flat. At least this aging landmark is actually still being used actively, practically and continually—unlike some of the other dilapidating, "unique" landmarks that hardcore preservationists lamented their doom (without doing anything substantive to rectify the "injustice" of it all).