Groom shot and killed in Queens

[bandnerd]

Police shoot, kill groom near NYC club - Crime & Punishment - MSNBC.com

So the guy was out with his friends, visiting a local strip club, and was shot and killed by the police, and his friends were wounded, one critically. Al Sharpton is on the case. He was supposed to be married today, 250 people were invited to his wedding.

He was of west African descent. Evidently, this isn't the first case of the police in that area attacking and killing someone of west African descent, hence Sharpton's involvement.

So is it police brutality? A major mix-up? What do you think?

[MadMonk]

Details are a little sketchy from MSNBC (of course), but they did mention that he rammed an undercover officer and also an unmarked police van.

Why?

They don't say.

So, unlike the good Rev. Sharpton, I'd prefer to have all the information from both sides before I voice an opinion.

[Curt]

Yah I'd like to know all the details also before making any comments...but not being there to actually see what happend it is hard to make any judgement....I will say that if the driver rammed the police intentionally and if he tried to run over an officer than yes I think it was justified....but there are still alot of if's and un answered questions

[Martin]

several guys leaving a strip club whilst on a bachelor party... it wouldn't surprise me if the driver was impaired or distracted and accidentally hit the officer and the van... they hit the wrong car at the wrong time. from the details out so far, i don't think the cops were unwarranted in defending themselves to what they perceived as a threat.

sharpton was right on one account, though... it was wrong to keep the surviving passengers cuffed to their gurneys after it was established they had no weapons and were only out on the town. -M

[Keith]

Yah I'd like to know all the details also before making any comments...but not being there to actually see what happend it is hard to make any judgement....I will say that if the driver rammed the police intentionally and if he tried to run over an officer than yes I think it was justified....but there are still alot of if's and un answered questions

Exactly. You can't make a judgement on something when you don't have all the facts. There are still too many questions left unanswered.

[sweetdaisy]

There's something very stinky about this deal...why on earth would the police need to shoot over FIFTY rounds? That's nuts.

It'll be interesting to find out the details on this. Such as, did the police identify themselves as police?

[Keith]

Here is the complete story from msnbc.com:

NEW YORK - Sean Bell and his fiancee had already shared a high school romance, then two children. In the early hours of what was to be their wedding day, the reception hall lay waiting, covered in satin and adorned with balloons.

But the ceremony never occurred Saturday. Police shot 50 rounds at the groom’s car as he drove away from his bachelor party, killing the 23-year-old hours before he was to walk down the aisle.

The hail of gunfire at a car full of unarmed men drew an outcry from family members and community leaders. Two passengers, who had been celebrating with the groom at a strip club, were also injured; one was struck by at least 11 bullets.

The officers’ shots struck the men’s car 21 times after it rammed into an undercover officer and hit an unmarked NYPD minivan, police said. Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said it was too early to say whether the shooting was justified.

The gunfire also sprayed nearby homes and a train station, though no residents were injured.

Police thought one of the men in the car might have had a gun, but investigators found no weapons. It was unclear what prompted police to open fire, Kelly said.

He said the incident stemmed from an undercover operation inside the strip club in Queens. Seven officers in plain clothes were investigating the Kalua Cabaret; five of them were involved in the shooting.

Verbal dispute
According to Kelly, the groom was involved in a verbal dispute outside the club after 4 a.m. One of his friends made a reference to a gun.

An undercover officer walked closely behind Bell and his friends as they headed for their car. As he walked toward the front of the vehicle, they drove forward — striking him and a nearby undercover police vehicle.

The officer who had followed the group on foot was apparently the first to open fire, Kelly said. That officer had served on the force for five years. One 12-year veteran fired his weapon 31 times, emptying two full magazines, Kelly said.

It was the first time any of the officers, all of whom carried 9 mm handguns, had been involved in a shooting, he said.

At some point, Bell backed his car up onto the sidewalk, hitting a building gate. He then drove forward, striking the police vehicle a second time, Kelly said.

It was unclear whether the shooters had identified themselves as police, said Kelly, whose account was based on statements made by witnesses and the two officers who did not shoot their weapons. Police could not question the other officers because the district attorney must first complete an investigation, he said.

The groom was driving. Joseph Guzman, 31, was in the front passenger’s seat and was shot at least 11 times. Trent Benefield, 23, who was in the back seat, was hit three times. Both men were taken to Mary Immaculate Hospital, where Guzman was listed in critical condition and Benefield was in stable condition.

Did a fourth person flee scene?
Kelly said there may have been a fourth person in the car who fled the scene.

Three officers, including the officer hit by the car, were treated and released. Another detective remained hospitalized for hypertension, Kelly said.

Abraham Kamara, 38, who lives a few blocks from where the shooting occurred, said he was getting ready for work around 4 a.m. when he heard bursts of gunfire.

“First it was like four shots,” he said. “And then it was like pop-pop-pop like 12 times.”

Kelly said undercover officers were inside the club to document illicit activity. With one more violation the club would be shut down, he said.
He said the establishment has a “chronic history of narcotics, prostitution and weapons complaints.”

Sharpton protests
The shooting drew angry protests from family members and the Rev. Al Sharpton.

Sharpton went to Jamaica Hospital, where Bell was pronounced dead, and Mary Immaculate Hospital on Saturday and held news conferences afterward. At Jamaica Hospital, the civil rights advocate stood with about two dozen members of the families of Bell and his fiancee.

“I will stand with this family,” he said. “This stinks. Something about the story being told did not seem right.”

Sharpton said Bell and his fiancee had two children, a 3-year-old and a 5-month-old.

After meeting with the two wounded men at Mary Immaculate, Sharpton said he was outraged to find the pair handcuffed to their hospital beds. The two were unshackled later Saturday and have not been charged with a crime.

“We’re not anti-police ... we’re anti-police brutality,” Sharpton said.
Robert Porter, who identified himself as Bell’s first cousin, said he was supposed to be a DJ at the wedding. He said about 250 people were invited to the ceremony and were flying in from all over the country. He said his cousin wasn’t the type to confront police and that he was “on the straight-and-narrow.”

“I can’t really express myself. It’s a numb feeling,” Porter said. “I still don’t want to believe it, a beautiful day like this, and he was going to have a beautiful wedding, he was going to live forever with his wife and children. And this happened.”

[bandnerd]

That's still really strange. I look forward to hearing the story the police who decided to open fire give. I mean, was it necessary to use two full magazines of ammo on the car? What if someone in the neighborhood had been shot and/or killed?

Geez.

[Keith]

If the suspect vehicle was driving towards the officers, in an attempt to run them over, then the officers were justified in shooting at the vehicle. They have the right to fire their weapon at the vehicle until the vehicle is stopped, or the danger is gone.

I really can't see, though, why they would have to shoot 21 times at the car. They were either bad shots, or taking their frustrations out on the men in the car that ran over the undercover officer. No matter what, I do think the 12 year veteran of the police department had no reason to shoot 31 times....emptying two magazines. Again, he was either a bad shot, or he was just revengeful. I believe it was the latter.

Of course, this is all speculation, so we will have to see what the final outcome is in the investigation. From what I can read in to the story, though, I do not feel the officers were justified in shooting so many times in to the car.

[sweetdaisy]

While I agree an officer is justified in shooting if the driver was attempting to run him over, there's still the issue of the police being in plain clothes. The story says the officer was following them "closely" while they went out to their vehicle and he walked in front of the car when they were pulling forward. I wonder if the driver perceived some sort of threat since the policeman was following them. And if he didn't ID himself as police, what are they to think? If someone was closely following me to my car and then walked in front of it while I was trying to pull out and then proceeded to open fire on me, you can bet that I'd try to run the guy down!

Seems like there have been a few "odd" police shootings recently. Just the other day, there was a story about police shooting a 94 year old woman in her home...they had bad info about drug dealings (or something of the sort) and kicked her door down. When she tried to defend herself against 3 men barging into her home, they shot and killed her.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Curt]

When the police are in a situation like that they dont have time to stop and think about how many rounds they fire...their survival instinct just takes over the same as anyones would...I am not saying all police shootings are justifiable but if someone was trying to run me down I'd do the same thing...but as Sweetdaisy said also if someone was following me close behind then stood in front of my vehicle I would perceive that as a threat and take action and if the only way out was to run them over then so be it...as long as they didnt identify themsevles as cops...It will be interesting to see how this plays out..either way if the police were justified or not they are screwed because Sharpton is going for the jugular.

[Martin]

seems like there have been a few "odd" police shootings recently. Just the other day, there was a story about police shooting a 94 year old woman in her home...they had bad info about drug dealings (or something of the sort) and kicked her door down. when she tried to defend herself against 3 men barging into her home, they shot and killed her.

in that one, the police are actually asserting that they got the right address... and don't forget that she wounded three officers before being shot and killed.



i understand the following too close bit... that'd freak me out too. regardless of whether or not a person is a plain-clothes cop, you can't run over someone for creeping you out... in fact, self-defense only allows you to use equal force.

given that someone was hit and a van rammed, i think the officers were justified in their actions... but the amount of force used is odd, imo. -M

[Fedcop01]

This is the type of CRAP that will cause law enforcment officers to hesitate when faced with a dealy force situation. What makes this whole thing so sad is that this wouldn't have even made the local news papers in NYC if three white men were killed. I'm so sick of hearing the (participating) black population screaming about every incident that involves police and a black "victim" on being race motivated. Now granted I wasn't there and the investigators need time to investigate but from what I read, there were three thugs in the strip club that were trying to start a fight. One of them reffered to a gun (put his hand inside his jacket to his waistbelt). They then walk outside, get into a vehicle and when an undercover police officer walks in front of them they run him over. Any law enforcement officer in this country would have fired upon that vehicle "aiming at the driver of course". Now if you have ever been to NYC, you can spot an under cover police officer from a mile away (not saying it was right if they didn't ID themselves). So are these "victims" the good church going people that these protesters are ranting about or were they just your plain old "THUGS" that make a law abiding and peaceful community scared to walk the streets at night. You can decide for yourself but I think the answer is pretty clear. My heart goes out to the officers and their faimly's for what they will endure for doing their jobs from the "I have a dream" community.

[bandnerd]

Update:

N.Y. mayor 'disturbed' by police shooting - U.S. Life - MSNBC.com

Excerpts:

However, Trini Wright, a dancer at the strip club where Bell’s bachelor party was held, told the Daily News she was going to a diner with the men and was putting her makeup bag in the trunk of their car when the police minivan appeared.

“The minivan came around the corner and smashed into their car. And they (the police) jumped out shooting,” Wright, 28, told the newspaper for Monday editions. “No ‘stop.’ No ‘freeze.’ No nothing.”

Bell was struck twice. Joseph Guzman, 31, was shot at least 11 times, and Trent Benefield, 23, was hit three times. Guzman was in critical condition Monday and Benefield was stable.

The department’s policy prohibits shooting at moving vehicles states “unless deadly force is being used against the police officers or another person present, by means other than a moving vehicle.”

[PUGalicious]

This is the type of CRAP that will cause law enforcment officers to hesitate when faced with a dealy force situation. What makes this whole thing so sad is that this wouldn't have even made the local news papers in NYC if three white men were killed. I'm so sick of hearing the (participating) black population screaming about every incident that involves police and a black "victim" on being race motivated. Now granted I wasn't there and the investigators need time to investigate but from what I read, there were three thugs in the strip club that were trying to start a fight. One of them reffered to a gun (put his hand inside his jacket to his waistbelt). They then walk outside, get into a vehicle and when an undercover police officer walks in front of them they run him over. Any law enforcement officer in this country would have fired upon that vehicle "aiming at the driver of course". Now if you have ever been to NYC, you can spot an under cover police officer from a mile away (not saying it was right if they didn't ID themselves). So are these "victims" the good church going people that these protesters are ranting about or were they just your plain old "THUGS" that make a law abiding and peaceful community scared to walk the streets at night. You can decide for yourself but I think the answer is pretty clear. My heart goes out to the officers and their faimly's for what they will endure for doing their jobs from the "I have a dream" community.

Can't you just feel the love?