Fordson Hotel (formerly 21c Museum Hotel)

[Spartan]

Does anyone know if the plans are to keep that water tower on the top of the building? I think that could be a fun feature to incorporate into any rooftop design.

Geez I hope so. There's a cheesy lifestyle center in one of Cleveland's western burbs that's building a large expansion, with one building incorporating a fake replica water tower. It's kinda funny actually bc the local snoots were up in arms against it so I had to actually go out and argue for it.

[bchris02]

As cheesy as it is, its light years ahead of most of OKC's suburban developments and something like that would be welcome for West Edmond.

[Urbanized]

Gah. Cheesy is right. Get ready for the JTF onslaught of disagreement, but disneyfied creation of false history is so inauthentic, and sort of sad. I love design tips-of-the-cap, but trying to make something nearly indistinguishable from something of a different era borders on insulting. It's like the neighborhood that names its streets after the trees that were clear cut and the creeks that were paved over.

If something is old, authentic, and has real quality it should be preserved unless something of higher and better use replaces it. But when building new, it should represent the era in which it was built, including advances in design and technology, while remaining sensitive to the neighborhood surrounding it.

The building the next block down in that rendering is ten times better. Or at the very least has none of the "ick" factor.

[metro]

As cheesy as it is, its light years ahead of most of OKC's suburban developments and something like that would be welcome for West Edmond.

West Edmond? I wish our suburbs had that much density. That's better than most of the developments we get downtown. I'd love to have a nice ALL BRICK and masonry warehouse style development like that downtown OKC.

[Spartan]

That building with less ick might be the new American Greetings HQ, I think. The argument was to support a good developer that goes above and beyond because they take pride in the deliverable. The downtown urbanites up here attack the Crocker Park lifestyle center bc "it lacks character" so the developer wanted to add more elements of interest and I support that.

I really do think more and more how everything boils down to taking pride in the deliverable.

[Urbanized]

Spartan, don't get me wrong; 95% of that building looks like something that I would be proud to see pop up in Bricktown. It's the other 5% that troubles me. Let me guess: the capstone detail - which in another time would have been hand-crafted carved stone - is made of an extruded styrofoam material, covered with a thin layer of plasticized plaster? Much like EIFS? You've already mentioned the fake water tower, designed to make people feel nostalgic and comfortable? Neither provides an AUTHENTIC sense of place. It's like they ran out of ideas.

I know it's a project you were involved with, and frankly you should take pride in it overall, but what I am talking about is symptomatic of a larger problem here and in this country in general. I read an article the other day about Pizza Hut responding to the "handcrafted" craze by training their cooks to artificially and on purpose put flaws into the crusts of their new "hand-tossed" pizzas. Are they really hand tossed? I guess it doesn't matter if the customer thinks it is. Other restaurants are developing meat-cutting machines designed to make their machine-cut meat seem butcher-sliced.

Locally-handcrafted beer becomes "a thing", so clever entrepreneurs set up a local P.O. box, order contract brew from another part of the country, toss in a handful of local grain onto tons of fermenting out-of-state grain, slap on local labels and brag about being "local" brewing companies brewing "with [insert locality here] grain". Or worse, a major brewing corporation creates a fictional brewing company at a fictional address, doesn't put their corporate name anywhere on the label, and passes it of as "craft" and "micro." And the public laps it up none the wiser. Sometimes even thinking they are doing a type of good deed or actually supporting local jobs.

McMansions, faux antiques... ...everywhere, people are searching for authenticity, but instead finding things that sort of SEEM authentic. Meanwhile, authenticity already surrounds us, but we often can't see it for one reason or another. Sometimes we even knock it down to build our own sanitized version.

So anyway, sorry to go on a rant. I just don't like being lied to. And in a way, all of those things I list above are lies. Maybe they're white lies, but they're lies nonetheless. It doesn't mean I won't eat the occasional Pizza Hut pizza, or that I wouldn't live in your building. It just means that if I have a choice I would rather eat pizza at Empire, or the just-opened Knucks in Bricktown that makes their crust with COOP beer, brewed in a place I can actually VISIT. And - no offense - I would probably rather live in the building behind your building.

[foodiefan]

Spartan, don't get me wrong; 95% of that building looks like something that I would be proud to see pop up in Bricktown. It's the other 5% that troubles me. Let me guess: the capstone detail - which in another time would have been hand-crafted carved stone - is made of an extruded styrofoam material, covered with a thin layer of plasticized plaster? Much like EIFS? You've already mentioned the fake water tower, designed to make people feel nostalgic and comfortable? Neither provides an AUTHENTIC sense of place. It's like they ran out of ideas.

I know it's a project you were involved with, and frankly you should take pride in it overall, but what I am talking about is symptomatic of a larger problem here and in this country in general. I read an article the other day about Pizza Hut responding to the "handcrafted" craze by training their cooks to artificially and on purpose put flaws into the crusts of their new "hand-tossed" pizzas. Are they really hand tossed? I guess it doesn't matter if the customer thinks it is. Other restaurants are developing meat-cutting machines designed to make their machine-cut meat seem butcher-sliced.

Locally-handcrafted beer becomes "a thing", so clever entrepreneurs set up a local P.O. box, order contract brew from another part of the country, toss in a handful of local grain onto tons of fermenting out-of-state grain, slap on local labels and brag about being "local" brewing companies brewing "with [insert locality here] grain". Or worse, a major brewing corporation creates a fictional brewing company at a fictional address, doesn't put their corporate name anywhere on the label, and passes it of as "craft" and "micro." And the public laps it up none the wiser. Sometimes even thinking they are doing a type of good deed or actually supporting local jobs.

McMansions, faux antiques... ...everywhere, people are searching for authenticity, but instead finding things that sort of SEEM authentic. Meanwhile, authenticity already surrounds us, but we often can't see it for one reason or another. Sometimes we even knock it down to build our own sanitized version.

So anyway, sorry to go on a rant. I just don't like being lied to. And in a way, all of those things I list above are lies. Maybe they're white lies, but they're lies nonetheless. It doesn't mean I won't eat the occasional Pizza Hut pizza, or that I wouldn't live in your building. It just means that if I have a choice I would rather eat pizza at Empire, or the just-opened Knucks in Bricktown that makes their crust with COOP beer, brewed in a place I can actually VISIT. And - no offense - I would probably rather live in the building behind your building.

+1

[Spartan]

I agree urbanized. I just wanted to show the fake one to show how cool it is that here we have a real, authentic one that we can preserve and highlight. I think we can both agree that we need more things of interest and things to be proud of.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Spartan, don't get me wrong; 95% of that building looks like something that I would be proud to see pop up in Bricktown. It's the other 5% that troubles me. Let me guess: the capstone detail - which in another time would have been hand-crafted carved stone - is made of an extruded styrofoam material, covered with a thin layer of plasticized plaster? Much like EIFS? You've already mentioned the fake water tower, designed to make people feel nostalgic and comfortable? Neither provides an AUTHENTIC sense of place. It's like they ran out of ideas.

I know it's a project you were involved with, and frankly you should take pride in it overall, but what I am talking about is symptomatic of a larger problem here and in this country in general. I read an article the other day about Pizza Hut responding to the "handcrafted" craze by training their cooks to artificially and on purpose put flaws into the crusts of their new "hand-tossed" pizzas. Are they really hand tossed? I guess it doesn't matter if the customer thinks it is. Other restaurants are developing meat-cutting machines designed to make their machine-cut meat seem butcher-sliced.

Locally-handcrafted beer becomes "a thing", so clever entrepreneurs set up a local P.O. box, order contract brew from another part of the country, toss in a handful of local grain onto tons of fermenting out-of-state grain, slap on local labels and brag about being "local" brewing companies brewing "with [insert locality here] grain". Or worse, a major brewing corporation creates a fictional brewing company at a fictional address, doesn't put their corporate name anywhere on the label, and passes it of as "craft" and "micro." And the public laps it up none the wiser. Sometimes even thinking they are doing a type of good deed or actually supporting local jobs.

McMansions, faux antiques... ...everywhere, people are searching for authenticity, but instead finding things that sort of SEEM authentic. Meanwhile, authenticity already surrounds us, but we often can't see it for one reason or another. Sometimes we even knock it down to build our own sanitized version.

So anyway, sorry to go on a rant. I just don't like being lied to. And in a way, all of those things I list above are lies. Maybe they're white lies, but they're lies nonetheless. It doesn't mean I won't eat the occasional Pizza Hut pizza, or that I wouldn't live in your building. It just means that if I have a choice I would rather eat pizza at Empire, or the just-opened Knucks in Bricktown that makes their crust with COOP beer, brewed in a place I can actually VISIT. And - no offense - I would probably rather live in the building behind your building.

#+2

[Urbanized]

I agree urbanized. I just wanted to show the fake one to show how cool it is that here we have a real, authentic one that we can preserve and highlight. I think we can both agree that we need more things of interest and things to be proud of...

+1.

[Teo9969]

Spartan, don't get me wrong; 95% of that building looks like something that I would be proud to see pop up in Bricktown. It's the other 5% that troubles me. Let me guess: the capstone detail - which in another time would have been hand-crafted carved stone - is made of an extruded styrofoam material, covered with a thin layer of plasticized plaster? Much like EIFS? You've already mentioned the fake water tower, designed to make people feel nostalgic and comfortable? Neither provides an AUTHENTIC sense of place. It's like they ran out of ideas.

I know it's a project you were involved with, and frankly you should take pride in it overall, but what I am talking about is symptomatic of a larger problem here and in this country in general. I read an article the other day about Pizza Hut responding to the "handcrafted" craze by training their cooks to artificially and on purpose put flaws into the crusts of their new "hand-tossed" pizzas. Are they really hand tossed? I guess it doesn't matter if the customer thinks it is. Other restaurants are developing meat-cutting machines designed to make their machine-cut meat seem butcher-sliced.

Locally-handcrafted beer becomes "a thing", so clever entrepreneurs set up a local P.O. box, order contract brew from another part of the country, toss in a handful of local grain onto tons of fermenting out-of-state grain, slap on local labels and brag about being "local" brewing companies brewing "with [insert locality here] grain". Or worse, a major brewing corporation creates a fictional brewing company at a fictional address, doesn't put their corporate name anywhere on the label, and passes it of as "craft" and "micro." And the public laps it up none the wiser. Sometimes even thinking they are doing a type of good deed or actually supporting local jobs.

McMansions, faux antiques... ...everywhere, people are searching for authenticity, but instead finding things that sort of SEEM authentic. Meanwhile, authenticity already surrounds us, but we often can't see it for one reason or another. Sometimes we even knock it down to build our own sanitized version.

So anyway, sorry to go on a rant. I just don't like being lied to. And in a way, all of those things I list above are lies. Maybe they're white lies, but they're lies nonetheless. It doesn't mean I won't eat the occasional Pizza Hut pizza, or that I wouldn't live in your building. It just means that if I have a choice I would rather eat pizza at Empire, or the just-opened Knucks in Bricktown that makes their crust with COOP beer, brewed in a place I can actually VISIT. And - no offense - I would probably rather live in the building behind your building.

I think I like this post. And I'd do that +x thing, but I can't count as high as you've gotten with all the pluses.

[Chadanth]

Geez I hope so. There's a cheesy lifestyle center in one of Cleveland's western burbs that's building a large expansion, with one building incorporating a fake replica water tower. It's kinda funny actually bc the local snoots were up in arms against it so I had to actually go out and argue for it.

Crocker Park is expanding? Last time I was there it was dead.

[Spartan]

Yes, they're going ahead on 750,000 sf of office for American Greetings, 300 more apartments, and 4 more retail buildings.

I usually have trouble finding parking, but it's nice on less busy days.

[bchris02]

West Edmond? I wish our suburbs had that much density. That's better than most of the developments we get downtown. I'd love to have a nice ALL BRICK and masonry warehouse style development like that downtown OKC.

I agree. I am just saying I wish our suburbs had some mixed-use developments the suburbs in other cities do. Nonetheless, development like that would have been awesome for lower Bricktown along the canal in place of what was built.

[Pete]

[OKVision4U]

I'm anxious to see all they are bringing. This will be a first class location that will pull the others in their direction.

[Pete]

Heard today that this building (on the NW corner of Sheridan and Fred Jones) will house a restaurant on the ground floor and a live music venue upstairs.



To the immediate east of the 21c will be a communal art space for artists and classes.

[AP]

Operated by the same group?

[Pete]

I don't think it's the 21c group.

This is one of the buildings owned by the Hall family and part of their plan to renovate and develop the properties around 21c.

I know they are working up their grand plan for the rest.

[PhiAlpha]

Heard today that this building (on the NW corner of Sheridan and Fred Jones) will house a restaurant on the ground floor and a live music venue upstairs.



To the immediate east of the 21c will be a communal art space for artists and classes.

By the time the hotel opens, it may not seem nearly as out of place as it did when proposed for this area. Looks like things are going to move quicker than expected around it.

[Just the facts]

Plutonic Panda and I got to look around this area on my recent trip and there is a lot of potential there. Here is a picture of one of the light fixtures on the Fred Jones Building. There are 17 of these along the Main St side.

[Pete]

Chip Fudge & Co. are working on plans for the buildings due west of the Hart, so these two districts are growing together.

[warreng88]

What are the chances the Film Row streetscape could be continued west to Classen to tie these these areas together?

[shawnw]

Even if we could get the funding I'd be worried they could do as good a job on purpose. I'd almost be content with a slightly different streetscape that tied into the theme of the museum from classen to shartel on main and sheridan.

[warreng88]

Even if we could get the funding I'd be worried they could do as good a job on purpose. I'd almost be content with a slightly different streetscape that tied into the theme of the museum from classen to shartel on main and sheridan.

I'd be ok with that. I would just like to see better lighting, street parking, bike lanes and only two lanes of through traffic.