Lumberyard

[dmoor82]

Damn!!

[Plutonic Panda]

OK, so apparently the project is fantasy. A spec portfolio-building exercise. Don't shoot the messenger. Nobody would like to see it happen more than me.

since you brought the news, you get the blame.

DAMMIT URBANIZED!!!!!!!

That does suck though. Are you sure it is purely fantasy? How long ago was this rendering made?

[catcherinthewry]

OK, so apparently the project is fantasy. A spec portfolio-building exercise. Don't shoot the messenger. Nobody would like to see it happen more than me.

I think if you're going to make a statement like that you need to elaborate a little more. Not that I'm doubting you, just that I'd like to know why you are saying this is fantasy.

[shawnw]

I had pretty low confidence in this deal being real, but it was nice to see what's possible for that site someday.

[CuatrodeMayo]

That doesn't surprise me. It's just a few renderings. Really, it only would take me a week or two to put this together.

[metro]

I think if you're going to make a statement like that you need to elaborate a little more. Not that I'm doubting you, just that I'd like to know why you are saying this is fantasy.

Urbanized isn't the type to just shoot off the hip on something like this. He runs the Bricktown Water Taxi, and used to own/run another business in Bricktown. He's been there for the long haul and is well connected in the area. I'm sure his sources are legit.

[Teo9969]

My favorite part of this rendering is looking at the actual OKC skyline…Where's First National, lol! (It's only there as a hint, but it looks almost replaced with a modern building, and several other buildings further in the background look to be changed/heightened/modernized.

[ShadowStrings]

At least we only had our hopes up for one day instead of multiple years before being disappointed. I can live with one day of exciting daydreaming followed by a letdown.

[catch22]

True!

[Plutonic Panda]

There is no reason to be let down at all. Urbanized said these were fantasy drawings. That's fine. These were put up by a big architectural firm and I would like to know why they have this under their master planning section with other REAL ACTIVE projects. Surely they didn't just throw one random fantasy in with other real ones. Time will tell I guess. My big question is, how long have those been up on the site? If they were posted recently, as in the last week, then I will still be hopeful, if they have been there for a few years, and anything in between, I don't know what to think of that.

[sroberts24]

If this were to be built, the retail space would be PERFECT for a Super Target and LA Fitness like DT Ft Worth has.

[Just the facts]

There is no reason to be let down at all. Urbanized said these were fantasy drawings. That's fine. These were put up by a big architectural firm and I would like to know why they have this under their master planning section with other REAL ACTIVE projects. Surely they didn't just throw one random fantasy in with other real ones. Time will tell I guess. My big question is, how long have those been up on the site? If they were posted recently, as in the last week, then I will still be hopeful, if they have been there for a few years, and anything in between, I don't know what to think of that.

I agree. I can count on no fingers the number of times companies I have worked for have done things 'just for fun'. Heck, most companies underfund things they should be doing, let alone spend real money on fantasy things. Anyhow, real or not, I have to time to wait to know for sure.

[G.Walker]

I actually believe Steve has been hinting about something completely different, pertaining to an entertainment venue.

Remember, Steve stated that the first bid for the Stage Center site was a 40 story tower. But that developer was not chosen for whatever reason. However, Steve also stated that particular developer was considering other sites to build the 40 story tower, so maybe this is that tower.

Just an educated guess...

[OKVision4U]

If your intention is to build a "large" tower w/ condos, you would use this method. If it is a "spec", then you want to get started on the marketing side of "selling / pre-leasing" those units ASAP. ...there may be more substance here than you might think.

[OUGrad05]

I think sometimes you guys in OKC get spoiled. I grew up there and moved in 2005 to Tulsa.
While I like it up here, every time my wife and I come to visit friends and family in okc we are blown away at how fast it continues to grow and change.

My take is okc is probably not quite ready for a 500+ unit 40 story tower. You do NOT want to overbuild your absorption rate or you will discourage other development.
I think a good midrise with 300 or so units is a better option at this particular point.

I don't understand the negativity because every city that is growing or of substantial size has projects come up and get cancelled or downsized.

OKC is killing it and my wife and I talk about moving back fairly often. Whether it is this or a other project okc will be in good shape.

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[Just the facts]

My take is okc is probably not quite ready for a 500+ unit 40 story tower. You do NOT want to overbuild your absorption rate or you will discourage other development.
I think a good midrise with 300 or so units is a better option at this particular point.

The only thing I will say is that there is no way OKC can overbuild urban housing. Urban housing doesn't play by the same assumption and economic laws that suburban housing plays by. In suburban housing each new house detracts from the reason existing owners moved there for. The exact opposite is true in urban housing where each new residents adds to why existing people moved there. In other words, the more people that move to urban settings the more other people want to move there, which in turn benefits the first inhabitants.

[warreng88]

I completely agree with what OUGrad05 is saying. As much as I enjoy the idea of a high-rise residential tower with 500 units, I would prefer to see a ton of Midtown/AA/DD/BT infill happen where we aren't staring at enormous surface parking lots or two acre lots right next to a brand new development. DD is getting to the point of completion, it doesn't have too much more space to fill in. Midtown has a long ways to go with as many open spaces as there are but that will just take a little time. SC is coming down soon and something will be built on that site with the new DT school on the west side of it. If the new CC and hotel come to fruition, that will take up a large portion of open space in DT. Then we have to rely on development around the new park that might break ground by the end of the year. I don't think we will see any large tower developments surrounding the park, probably more 3-10 story developments, but I wouldn't be disappointed if they were higher. The Plaza district really only has a few more open areas for retail/restaurants, etc and then the main area is full. 23rd street still has a ways to go. I guess my point in all this is that as exciting as this development would be, there are so many other areas I would like to see reach their max potential before something like this. Of course, if they were to both happen, I wouldn't be disappointed.

[OKVision4U]

I think sometimes you guys in OKC get spoiled. I grew up there and moved in 2005 to Tulsa.
While I like it up here, every time my wife and I come to visit friends and family in okc we are blown away at how fast it continues to grow and change.

My take is okc is probably not quite ready for a 500+ unit 40 story tower. You do NOT want to overbuild your absorption rate or you will discourage other development.
I think a good midrise with 300 or so units is a better option at this particular point.

I don't understand the negativity because every city that is growing or of substantial size has projects come up and get cancelled or downsized.

OKC is killing it and my wife and I talk about moving back fairly often. Whether it is this or a other project okc will be in good shape.

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OKC is far from any "overbuilding". We have space-a-plenty. If this developer is an ( Outside ) group, then his concern is purely ROI and 40 stories helps secure that. It becomes the place to be, thus values will remain steady for each unit. This complex brings its own "self-contained environment" of Large / High End / Mixed-use / Destination point and would thrive. On the Blvd, Highly Visible to all.


If the developer is local, then this project will most likely be scaled back or cut due to ( tight financing / short leash ) approach.

[bchris02]

The only thing I will say is that there is no way OKC can overbuild urban housing. Urban housing doesn't play by the same assumption and economic laws that suburban housing plays by. In suburban housing each new house detracts from the reason existing owners moved there for. The exact opposite is true in urban housing where each new residents adds to why existing people moved there. In other words, the more people that move to urban settings the more other people want to move there, which in turn benefits the first inhabitants.

In principle you are right. I do think urban housing can be overbuilt though if there is more available housing than there are people seeking to live in an urban environment. A lot of people in Oklahoma City actually prefer suburbs and will never live downtown regardless of how much gets built. Once you reach that point, you have to rely on new in-migrants to make new development feasible. At this point in OKC's development, a 40 story residential tower could very well be a catalyst for creating that glut that halts further development for a while. I agree with OUGrad05 that we aren't quite ready for it yet. I think when the metro population gets to the 1.5-1.7 million range projects like this will start to become more realistic.

[Just the facts]

In the spirit of keep threads on track I'll just leave you with the last word on this tangent.

[hoya]

I don't think we know what our demand for urban housing is yet. So far just about every downtown apartment complex has a long wait list. And while people in OKC have seemed fairly satisfied with suburban living, we don't know how many of those are ready to jump downtown, if only the right space opens up.

I like the sustained, steady growth that we've been showing so far, but we also need to be ready for opportunities like this (theoretical) tower. It would bring a new level of development to OKC and may draw a new type of resident downtown. When someone buys a home in Gallardia, that behavior may not be "I want a huge house in a gated community". It may be "I want the most prestigious living arrangement available in the city". If that's the case, then a high rise might appeal to them.

Even if they announced this tower today (which they aren't), it would be probably 4 or 5 years before anyone could move in. By that point in time a lot of our existing urban areas will have filled up and downtown will be a more desirable place to live than it is today.

[BDP]

I agree it would be cool but it seems like a bit of an odd location for a residential tower. That said, there will be streetcar access, so maybe that's not much of a factor.

It could be a cool location, if there weren't that big fat bifurcating expressway masquerading as a boulevard. Otherwise, it would have great access to bricktown, the arena, the park, CBD, and the street car. I'm not sure where the final designs are on the boulevard, but some serious pedestrian issues are going to pop up if developers really are interested in doing things like this on the south side of the artery.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^

Not to get off-topic, but this is one of the main reasons the convention center doesn't work south of Chesapeake.

[BDP]

I think sometimes you guys in OKC get spoiled. I grew up there and moved in 2005 to Tulsa.
While I like it up here, every time my wife and I come to visit friends and family in okc we are blown away at how fast it continues to grow and change.

My take is okc is probably not quite ready for a 500+ unit 40 story tower. You do NOT want to overbuild your absorption rate or you will discourage other development.
I think a good midrise with 300 or so units is a better option at this particular point.

I don't understand the negativity because every city that is growing or of substantial size has projects come up and get cancelled or downsized.

OKC is killing it and my wife and I talk about moving back fairly often. Whether it is this or a other project okc will be in good shape.

I think saturation is a consideration, but this looks like it would have been a new option for downtown. I think the real threat could be building a lot of the same thing at this point, which we may be seeing (though demand seems to be keeping up). However, an owner occupied tower or even just a luxury high rise rental option would expand the market and possibly attract a new type of downtown resident that want to live downtown, but is currently not interested in what's available. 3 or 4 of these would be a bad idea at this point. 1 or 2 is probably doable, imo. Regency seems to do well and it's kind of shabby. And even the Classen does very well and, honestly, it falls short on its promise of "luxury". A new building with well kept amenities and quality services would probably have no problem maintaining a good occupancy rate.

[OUGrad05]

OKC is far from any "overbuilding". We have space-a-plenty. If this developer is an ( Outside ) group, then his concern is purely ROI and 40 stories helps secure that. It becomes the place to be, thus values will remain steady for each unit. This complex brings its own "self-contained environment" of Large / High End / Mixed-use / Destination point and would thrive. On the Blvd, Highly Visible to all.


If the developer is local, then this project will most likely be scaled back or cut due to ( tight financing / short leash ) approach.

I think you misunderstand. It is not a function of over building land. It is a function of over building you absorption rate as I said.

In other words there is demand for 300 units you build 1000 so 700 stay empty and rents collapse making projects uneconomic. (that is an example number to make the point clear)

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