1980 Guest House Murders

[Lynne]

Back in late 1954, I went to my first newspaper job as the sole fulltime reporter for The Daily Ardmoreite. I'm quite familiar with Little Dixie and its mafia. Ever deal with George Fuqua, whose activities forced the Highway Patrol to stop using unmarked cars?

Quite a few of those folk had ties to northwest Louisiana, as well...

in 1954 I was 7 years old.LOL

[RadicalModerate]

I was only 2.
Yet, I have to admit that every time I drove by the murder scene--at the tender age of much later, in real time about the time of the incident in question--I thought: "Yeah, that's a seedy enough motel for something like that to happen."

I'm not sure if The Guest House Motel Murders preceded or anti-ceded The Pei Plan . . .
And I'm not sure if it matters at this point in time.

All evidence to the contrary has been carefully removed.
By Them.

[Jim Kyle]

I would recommend, and encourage you to memorialize in writing your recollections and forward to Dr. Bob Blackburn at the Oklahoma Historical Society for archive.

Actually you can find quite a bit of the story on Doug Loudenback's web site; he's published several such articles that I sent him and one told the story of how Edmondson and Cannon got the state to repeal prohibition in 1959. I'm still working on one about creation of the shelterbelts that helped put an end to the Dust Bowl (and a most unlikely wartime effort by the same group that helped the B29s get off the ground).

[Jim Kyle]

I think Atkinson went on to start a paper . . was it the Journal?. . out in Midwest City.

Were you aware that Atkinson was the man who quite literally built Midwest City? He did all the original development, and was a major political power in the state before he went up against Edmondson -- and lost to the biggest landslide recorded up to that time in the state. While Atkinson's campaign followed usual lines, Edmondson toured the state and had campaign rallies in every one of the 77 counties. Such grass-roots efforts were almost unknown in the state up until then. Years later, Henry Bellmon and his "Bellmon's Belles" did much the same, with equal success...

[RadicalModerate]

Actually you can find quite a bit of the story on Doug Loudenback's web site; he's published severa; such articles that I sent him and one told the story of how Edmondson and Cannon got the state to repeal prohibition in 1959. I'm still working on one about creation of the shelterbelts that helped put an end to the Dust Bowl (and a most unlikely wartime effort by the same group that helped the B29s get off the ground).

Once again, I salute you, Sir.
Perhaps because I once read a book entitled, "The Pursuit of Excellence".
It wasn't so much about "journalism" as it was about approaching truth and even Truth.

[KenRagsdale]

I was about 7 or 8.

E-D-M-O-N-D * S-O-N spells Edmondson ....

It's my understanding the late J. Leland Gourley, Edmondson's press spokesman and later publisher of Oklahoma City's "Friday" newspaper, came up with that catchy combination of lyrics by Gourley and music by George M. Cohan.

[Lynne]

I was about 7 or 8.

E-D-M-O-N-D * S-O-N spells Edmondson ....

I was only 2.
Yet, I have to admit that every time I drove by the murder scene--at the tender age of much later, in real time about the time of the incident in question--I thought: "Yeah, that's a seedy enough motel for something like that to happen."

I'm not sure if The Guest House Motel Murders preceded or anti-ceded The Pei Plan . . .
And I'm not sure if it matters at this point in time.

All evidence to the contrary has been carefully removed.
By Them.

Boy, isn't THAT the truth. I had to have a friend show me where the GH once stood. I used to go to the HI-LO club and I lived across the Circle at the Belle Isle Apts on Blackwelder, south of the old DeVille motel, but the GH never caught my eye back in the day. Or maybe it wasn't even there. Anyway I don't remember it.
Tell me about the Pei Plan. TOTAL darkness here. Remember, I left in '76.

[Lynne]

It's my understanding the late J. Leland Gourley, Edmondson's press spokesman and later publisher of Oklahoma City's "Friday" newspaper, came up with that catchy combination of lyrics by Gourley and music by George M. Cohan.

Isn't it odd how many of us that were mere children remember that race? It really was a big deal. And it was also the summer I got my first Hula Hoop.

[Lynne]

Were you aware that Atkinson was the man who quite literally built Midwest City? He did all the original development, and was a major political power in the state before he went up against Edmondson -- and lost to the biggest landslide recorded up to that time in the state. While Atkinson's campaign followed usual lines, Edmondson toured the state and had campaign rallies in every one of the 77 counties. Such grass-roots efforts were almost unknown in the state up until then. Years later, Henry Bellmon and his "Bellmon's Belles" did much the same, with equal success...

Followed 'usual lines' if slinging mud was 'usual'. I really think that's why he lost. It was just too much. I do remember Henry Bellmon.

[Urbanized]

Atkinson is also indirectly responsible for OKC's massive city area and resultant sprawl. OKC and the Chamber spearheaded the effort to land Tinker AFB and its civilian jobs, but after they succeeded, Atkinson wisely managed to snap up much of the unincorporated land around it and developed MWC as a separate community (whose sales and property taxes of course never made it to OKC).

Having learned their lesson and not wanting the same thing to happen to them ever again, leaders in OKC went on an epic annexation spree that lasted for years and resulted in our current sparsely-populated and difficult-to-sustain land mass. Law of unintended consequences.

[RadicalModerate]

Atkinson is also indirectly responsible for OKC's massive city area and resultant sprawl. OKC and the Chamber spearheaded the effort to land Tinker AFB and its civilian jobs, but after they succeeded, Atkinson wisely managed to snap up much of the unincorporated land around it and developed MWC as a separate community (whose sales and property taxes of course never made it to OKC).

Having learned their lesson and not wanting the same thing to happen to them ever again, leaders in OKC went on an epic annexation spree that lasted for years and resulted in our current sparsely-populated and difficult-to-sustain land mass. Law of unintended consequences.

I love that summary. It is so on-target that words fail me.
(would have simply clicked the Like button, but it seems to be gone.)

Look at a plan view or aerial map of the old part of MWC sometime.
Then tell me that it doesn't look like something from the Nazca Plains down there in America del Sur.
I used to live on one branch of "the menorah" (renting, for a short period of time).
There certainly was a certain "vibe" about the place.
Unrelated to jet aircraft landing.
Maybe. =)

I forget: How did WP(bill)A get dragged into a discussion about The Infamous Guest House Murders?

[Jim Kyle]

Just a bit of mention of ancient history; word association took over from there.

Lynne -- the Pei Plan, in one sentence, is what destroyed downtown OKC in the 70s.

[RadicalModerate]

Just a bit of mention of ancient history; word association took over from there.

Lynne -- the Pei Plan, in one sentence, is what destroyed downtown OKC in the 70s.

If there was a Three Thumbs Up button I would click it.
Suffice it to say, since there ain't . . .

[. . . --the Pei Plan, in one sentence, is what destroyed downtown OKC in the 70s]
. . . and someone had to Pay for It.

[kevinpate]

Pei Plan - knock down a bunch of stuff. build a bunch of shiny new stuff.
They began the plan aggressively enough, then got tired and took a long freaking nap.

[Lynne]

Pei Plan - knock down a bunch of stuff. build a bunch of shiny new stuff.
They began the plan aggressively enough, then got tired and took a long freaking nap.

LOL. You guys.

i remember Downtown was at it's lowest point in the late 60's early 70's then they built that concrete thing and then the Myriad. I can't wait for September to get here. Got friends up there that have offered me the Grande Tour. I've been back a few times in the late 80's, again right after the Bombing (started driving that night because we couldn't get a flight out quick enough.) Oklahoma City will always be home to me. That place that when you go back there, they have to take you in.
I think if you are from there you need to go home periodically to get a fresh infusion, a red dirt fix to sustain you in the hinterlands which is down here in Texas, the place Dan Jenkins called 'Baja Oklahoma'.
I'm keeping my eye on you guys now, peeking in now and again hoping for news of my OT. Even though the thread got a little hi-jacked it was a most pleasant robbery. I could 'listen' to y'all all day and night. And such gentlemen. Rare in these days and times.

See you soon. I'll never go completely away but I've got leads to follow, appointments to keep and miles to go before I sleep.
I wish gen70 would have come back to me.

You can reach me at dgirl77040@aol.com

PS left y'all a few back in the day pix.

[gen70]

@causeLynne I really could not describe him clearly because it was a long time ago and we were drink'n and smok'n but, I do recall that one of the two guy's told me that he had been a student at Columbia University at one point.

[gen70]

@ Lynne, I couldn't honestly describe the other two men I met at Marvin's apt. that day because I had been smoke'n and drink'n .

[OKCRT]

Followed 'usual lines' if slinging mud was 'usual'. I really think that's why he lost. It was just too much. I do remember Henry Bellmon.

So getting back on topic. Did they look at the ex-wife and her husband that were living in NC but were in Ok. at the time of the shooting? From the way I was reading it sounded like the ex didn't want Ray seeing the kids. It also said that the ex. tried to get Ray to come to NC but he refused.

This all sounds pretty fishy to me once you start reading about it.

[Lynne]

Pei Plan - knock down a bunch of stuff. build a bunch of shiny new stuff.
They began the plan aggressively enough, then got tired and took a long freaking nap.

Weird bunch up there. What with Gaylord and all. I thought we'd never get liquor by the drink. When I left you still had to bring your own bottle to a club and pay for 'set-ups'.

[Lynne]

So getting back on topic. Did they look at the ex-wife and her husband that were living in NC but were in Ok. at the time of the shooting? From the way I was reading it sounded like the ex didn't want Ray seeing the kids. It also said that the ex. tried to get Ray to come to NC but he refused.

This all sounds pretty fishy to me once you start reading about it.

Did I tell ya or did I tell ya? This thing has a real surprise ending. I knew Patsy. Strange little bird to say the least. Came from Jehovah's Witnesses and turned out for Ray. Wouldn't I love to pick her brain. I found his son on Facebook. Put in for a 'friends' dealie. We shall see what we shall see.

[Lynne]

So getting back on topic. Did they look at the ex-wife and her husband that were living in NC but were in Ok. at the time of the shooting? From the way I was reading it sounded like the ex didn't want Ray seeing the kids. It also said that the ex. tried to get Ray to come to NC but he refused.

This all sounds pretty fishy to me once you start reading about it.

@causeLynne I really could not describe him clearly because it was a long time ago and we were drink'n and smok'n but, I do recall that one of the two guy's told me that he had been a student at Columbia University at one point.

Well, you can call that guy 'Not Ray'.

[Lynne]

When I flew to Dallas in '74, Ray had been shot. He told me he walked into a 7-11 store robbery. Researching I find it was actually Patsy that shot him. He wanted to take me back to SC with him then. I refused and he drove me back to Houston. We fought all the way ( we did that a lot. But as the man said, 'That was our dance.') and when I got to the front door I slammed the car door, probably flipped him the bird while he shook his head and laughed (he did that a lot, too)and I never spoke to him again.

[OKCRT]

When I flew to Dallas in '74, Ray had been shot. He told me he walked into a 7-11 store robbery. Researching I find it was actually Patsy that shot him. He wanted to take me back to SC with him then. I refused and he drove me back to Houston. We fought all the way ( we did that a lot. But as the man said, 'That was our dance.') and when I got to the front door I slammed the car door, probably flipped him the bird while he shook his head and laughed (he did that a lot, too)and I never spoke to him again.

So McBride(the cop) just had a hunch after someone gave him a brief description of the shooter and fingered the guy from Tyler Texas that was at a rodeo all evening. So the shooter jumps in a jet flies to Ok. City and commits the crime in just a few hour time period? And there's no question that he was in Tyler Texas because he had many witnesses that backed him up. Not other criminals but upstanding people that seen him,talked to him and hung out with him and many others at the rodeo. But McBride put the finger on this guy from the start so it had to be him,right. Sounds like a true case of rushing to judgement.

Well all I can say is that someone should make a movie of this and bring out the true facts. The more I read the crazier this story gets. I must admit that I have never given it much thought but after reading this thread and doing a little checking it's pretty plain to me that there was some very shady stuff going on.

[Lynne]

Followed 'usual lines' if slinging mud was 'usual'. I really think that's why he lost. It was just too much. I do remember Henry Bellmon.

So McBride(the cop) just had a hunch after someone gave him a brief description of the shooter and fingered the guy from Tyler Texas that was at a rodeo all evening. So the shooter jumps in a jet flies to Ok. City and commits the crime in just a few hour time period? And there's no question that he was in Tyler Texas because he had many witnesses that backed him up. Not other criminals but upstanding people that seen him,talked to him and hung out with him and many others at the rodeo. But McBride put the finger on this guy from the start so it had to be him,right. Sounds like a true case of rushing to judgement.

Well all I can say is that someone should make a movie of this and bring out the true facts. The more I read the crazier this story gets. I must admit that I have never given it much thought but after reading this thread and doing a little checking it's pretty plain to me that there was some very shady stuff going on.

I'm thinking the cover up started with Harold Behrens (det) but what his connection to Leonard Crown (Patsy's husband at the time) and how that conversation went down is crucial. Such a co-incidence there would be two shooters, look-a-likes, same gold tipped hollow point 45's (very rare at the time)and how the word would get to Crowe unless he knew Behrens or at least Paul Mazzel whom Ray supposedly ripped off.
Behrens patted him on the shoulder that night before he left, literally putting a bulls eye on Rays back. Who knew what and when and how did it come together? A colossal coincidence. a quick trip to Madill to see Patsys parents, Crowe having a mustache when he got there but came back without one.

And lastly, why no follow up? after they let Henry Bowen go in 86? Was it because everybody was glad to see Ray go and considered it poetic justice, let it ride? It had happened before.

One more small thing. Crowe was a SC boy but he died in Ardmore a few years back.He was released in 86 and had a new wife as early as 1987. Patsy was no longer around. But he stayed close to her it seems.

[Lynne]

So McBride(the cop) just had a hunch after someone gave him a brief description of the shooter and fingered the guy from Tyler Texas that was at a rodeo all evening. So the shooter jumps in a jet flies to Ok. City and commits the crime in just a few hour time period? And there's no question that he was in Tyler Texas because he had many witnesses that backed him up. Not other criminals but upstanding people that seen him,talked to him and hung out with him and many others at the rodeo. But McBride put the finger on this guy from the start so it had to be him,right. Sounds like a true case of rushing to judgement.

Well all I can say is that someone should make a movie of this and bring out the true facts. The more I read the crazier this story gets. I must admit that I have never given it much thought but after reading this thread and doing a little checking it's pretty plain to me that there was some very shady stuff going on.

That's the plan.