Moore cops abuse......

[RadicalModerate]

I have been a prosecutor and/or criminal defense lawyer for 16 years and have never heard this. The citizen has the right to refuse questioning and ask for an attorney but there isn't any mandatory waiting period the cops must wait. They will try and question the suspect as soon as possible before they have time to collect themselves.

If I was a gambler, I would bet that what you said is exactly correct/right.
Yet I don't gamble--nor gambol--and the facts stated remain the same.
thank you. no kidding, no joke.

The difficult decision, at least to me, would seem to be dealing with the presumption of [not-guiltiness] as applied to police officers who are supposed to be defenders of the public trust. Jury-wise, any-ways . . .

(oh! and thanks for responsively reconsidering the design of your building, downtown.
it indicated "character." on a level reflecting good rather than the other thing.

geez . . . I've heard of being "tried in the press" but this is . . . different. =)

[Anonymous.]

If after an investigation is done and the cops in question were found to be guilty I hope they are punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Police should be held to a higher standard. The only way to stop police from potentially abusing power is by setting punishments that are greater than civilian punishments. This is the whole point of becoming a police officer, to uphold the law.

[RadicalModerate]

=Anonymous.;749052]Police should be held to a higher standard. The only way to stop police from potentially abusing power is by setting punishments that are greater than civilian punishments. This is the whole point of becoming a police officer, to uphold the law.

If Wyatt Earp, Bill Tilghman, and a Host of Others had been held to a higher standard, they would have been outlaws only (rather than defenders of the public trust). Really. Check it out. Yet this is now and that was before the advent of Video Game Anti-Heroes and Whutnuts.)

Can you imagine the uproar if The Defrocked/Unbadged Pissing Kid Buster (from Piedmont) were involved in this?
(I can't)

[Prunepicker]

... The only way to stop police from potentially abusing power is by setting
punishments that are greater than civilian punishments...

I disagree. The penalty for a crime should be the same for everyone.

[Chadanth]

I disagree. The penalty for a crime should be the same for everyone.

Rare agreement. I also don't believe in separate laws or enhancements for particular classes of victims. A crime is a crime.

[ljbab728]

An update.

http://newsok.com/moore-police-respo...rticle/3934940

[Prunepicker]

Rare agreement. I also don't believe in separate laws or enhancements for
particular classes of victims. A crime is a crime.

You agree with me more than you don't About the only thing we disagree
with are less than an handful of science theories.

[zookeeper]

An update.

Family of man who died in police custody speaks out after officers defend their actions | KFOR.com

Listening to the police chief....here's a big change in policing in just the last thirty years. ANY resistance is license for the cops to escalate the situation verbally, with muscle and testosterone-fueled rage. Rage from police officers is a huge problem and it goes back to the violent mindset with so many of these young cops having a military background from a war zone. How is it different these days? Older officers will tell you that there was a time when resistance was expected and they were trained to calm a person down with words and lack of action. "Come on...hey...nobody here wants to be here in this situation. I'm not going to blame anybody here because I don't know what's going on. But we can't have this in the parking lot. Can we all agree this would be better settled in a different way?" No hands on the gun, no throwing the guy hard to the ground or against a vehicle just because he's upset (or, God forbid, he makes a fist). Please. Nobody knows what medications he might be taking, nobody knows anything. Assume the best and that this is a family argument that got out-of-control, but de-escalation is the goal. It begins with verbal de-escalation to calm down the agitated person. The single worst thing that can happen in most of these situations is an army of officers descending on every call as if it's WWIII. Then, you get the young guys running to the situation and almost always - they begin screaming. "Get back!" "Back away!" "Everybody want to go downtown tonight?" "Shut your damn mouth!" "NOW!" Verbal rage from the very people society needs to keep the peace and allow a situation to fizzle out, rather than blow up. About 90% of the time - it's up to the officers on the scene how it's going to end. For this man, it ended in a senseless death in the parking lot.

No, I wasn't there. But I've been there. More times than I care to count. Policing has become just another military patrol and every response is heightened with expectations of a battle. Most officers 40+ know all of this but - guess what? - their superiors are just marking time until they can hang it up and get away from the constant need to babysit their own. There's still a "Blue Wall" but it's getting thinner as the patience is wearing thin. The generational difference is huge among LEO's these days. The younger guys - most all of them - have almost a feeling of (I hate to say it) entitlement that they be in control of every situation, nobody is allowed to have a response to provocative comments or angry pistol-gripping body language, and it's all done by any means necessary. Too many video games, actual combat experience, and feeling like the world owes them a peaceful night, nobody should ever get upset, 100% military-like compliance is expected from citizens - and they expect it come hell or high water, like petulant children.

Welcome to the militarization of local police departments. It ain't pretty.

I've already said too much.

[MWCGuy]

It sounds to me this situation exploded when they were just trying to figure out what happened. This guy likely blew up and things just got messy from there. I am holding out to see the video. I am thinking the video is likely going to side with the police on this issue. It if was against the police I think it would have been on the 10pm news tonight. We should see video on the 6pm or 10pm news on Wednesday. I think something is missing it's not as cut and dry as the family is playing it out.

Yes many law enforcement personell have military backgrounds however, most of them are men and women with families and they are out there working hard just like the rest of us. They are nice people who truly love serving the community and work hard to help people more then harm them.

Zookeeper I suggest you get out and get away from your computer. I think if you get to know a few law enforcment folks outside of their element you would find they are not the stormtroopers so many bloggers make them out to be. They are nothing more than people with jobs to do just like the rest of us.

[kelroy55]

I'll still wait for the investigation to finish before I say who did what since I wasn't there.

[positano]

Seems to me that there is some danger in this thread of premature conclusions based on unsupported conclusions. I would expect that there is some data available on the number of police officers with military experience, and / or military experience in "a war zone", which might be helpful prior to broad declaration that the police have become too "militarized".

[tomokc]

Seems to me that there is some danger in this thread of premature conclusions based on unsupported conclusions. I would expect that there is some data available on the number of police officers with military experience, and / or military experience in "a war zone", which might be helpful prior to broad declaration that the police have become too "militarized".

Wise. I participate in pilot forums where accidents are discussed starting immediately after they occur. We all recognize that information is sparse, incomplete and many times in error, but there are a lot of experienced pilots who share insight that we all find valuable. The goal is for all of us to be better pilots.

[kevinpate]

I disagree. The penalty for a crime should be the same for everyone.

Curious on a point Prune. If the penalty for a crime should be the same for all, should we close down the death penalty and simply leave jurors the sentencing choices of life, no parole option, life with a parole option, or perhaps even just one of those two remaining choices.

[Chadanth]

Curious on a point Prune. If the penalty for a crime should be the same for all, should we close down the death penalty and simply leave jurors the sentencing choices of life, no parole option, life with a parole option, or perhaps even just one of those two remaining choices.

No, he's referring to differing charges for the same crime depending on who the offender and victim are. i.e., Domestic violence is still just violence. It doesn't need special sentencing guidelines.

[BBatesokc]

Anyone who knows me knows I'm no cop cheerleader. So, I don't say it lightly when I say (without going into ANY more detail) that the video does indeed clear the police officer(s) of criminal wrongdoing. Trust me on this.

[MustangGT]

Fortunately the Chief of Moore PD is standing behind his officers as he should. When all the truth finally comes out the family will definitely be looking a lot worse for the experience.

[MustangGT]

Seems to me that there is some danger in this thread of premature conclusions based on unsupported conclusions. I would expect that there is some data available on the number of police officers with military experience, and / or military experience in "a war zone", which might be helpful prior to broad declaration that the police have become too "militarized".

The tired and worn out phrase of militarization of the police is vastly OVERSTATED.

[MWCGuy]

Fortunately the Chief of Moore PD is standing behind his officers as he should. When all the truth finally comes out the family will definitely be looking a lot worse for the experience.

My take on Moore's Chief is that he will stand behind his officers until they are in the wrong. If they were to be found in the wrong, he sounds like the type of guy who would arrest them himself. I think understand just how much this department stands to loose in this situation. If his department operates or appears to operate in a rogue manner it could cost the City of Moore everything from citizen support, to economic development and government grants.

[zookeeper]

The tired and worn out phrase of militarization of the police is vastly OVERSTATED.

Look, I hope these guys didn't do anything criminal in Moore. That doesn't mean the situation was handled well.

About the militarization of the police. You say it's vastly overstated. Statistics and arms purchases by local police shows it's probably vastly UNDERstated. Some things aren't up for debate. Even in your neck of the woods, they've moved to black tinted SUV's for the police - isn't that right? This is one of the smaller things, but it's a move in the direction. What percentage of the police in Mustang have been in Iraq and/or Afghanistan trained to be warriors? Not that there's a thing wrong with that decision, the problem is the (rarely) successful transition to civilian law enforcement the way it was practiced for many, many years.

[BBatesokc]

Look, I hope these guys didn't do anything criminal in Moore. That doesn't mean the situation was handled well....

Based on what I now (know/have seen) this is exactly what its going to come down to - no crime was committed, now begins the discussion of 'could this have been handled differently?'

Not so unlike a video I captured some 12-years ago.

[Midtowner]

Not so unlike a video I captured some 12-years ago.

Let's hope the DA of Cleveland County handles things a little better than Lane did.

[hoya]

There are too many instances of this kind of thing. It shows a deficiency, either in training or in hiring practices. Most of my encounters with police, professional or personal, have been perfectly fine. The great majority of officers I've encountered have been people with good judgment. Sadly there are that handful who go into every encounter hoping that they can clobber someone.

[kelroy55]

From Wikipedia so not sure how accurate it is but it does show there are LOTS of LEO's of all kinds, don't think this includes Game Wardens and such. When you have a group of professionals this large there will always be a small percentage who give the rest a bad name. To say the police are out of control is just focusing on that small percentage. I ride motorcycles but to some we're all Hell Angels. If the officers did something wrong it will be brought out but to go off on a rant about cops being out of control is a bit premature (imho)


The 2012 Bureau of Justice Statistics' Census of State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies (CSLLEA), found there were 17,985 state and local law enforcement agencies employing at least one full-time officer or the equivalent in part-time officers.

In 2008, state and local law enforcement agencies employed more than 1.1 million persons on a full-time basis, including about 765,000 sworn personnel (defined as those with general arrest powers). Agencies also employed approximately 100,000 part-time employees, including 44,000 sworn officers.

From 2004 to 2008, overall full-time employment by state and local law enforcement agencies nationwide increased by about 57,000 (or 5.3%). Sworn personnel increased by about 33,000 (4.6%), and nonsworn employees by about 24,000 (6.9%). From 2004 to 2008, the number of full-time sworn personnel per 100,000 U.S. residents increased from 250 to 251. From 1992 to 2008, the growth rate for civilian personnel was more than double that of sworn personnel.

Local police departments were the largest employer of sworn personnel, accounting for 60% of the total. Sheriffs' offices were next, accounting for 24%. About half (49%) of all agencies employed fewer than 10 full-time officers. Nearly two-thirds (64%) of sworn personnel worked for agencies that employed 100 or more officers.

[Dubya61]

From ... officers.

Kurse you K55 and your faKts! I was just about to make a killing with my ALCOA stock!

[Garin]

Based on what I now (know/have seen) this is exactly what its going to come down to - no crime was committed, now begins the discussion of 'could this have been handled differently?'

Not so unlike a video I captured some 12-years ago.

How did you get to see the video already? Can you share any other info about it, did the guy attack the cops first