Moore cops abuse......

[Garin]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...aiuxRelqHaTMgQ


How about a taser or some pepper spray, did they really have to beat him to death?

[Achilleslastand]

If after an investigation is done and the cops in question were found to be guilty I hope they are punished to the fullest extent of the law.

[Garin]

My neighbor is internal affairs with mpd , I'm sure he'll be putting in the hours over this.

[Midtowner]

I read about this. Tragic.

We haven't heard Moore PD's explanation for what happened, but it's hard to imagine any situation where policemen stepping into a domestic dispute should ever escalate to the point that the policemen beat one of the parties to death.

The fact that the phone with the video was confiscated is actually understandable though. That's evidence. Now if the video was deleted or destroyed, most of the time, it can be recovered and evidence tampering charges can be added.

[zookeeper]

I support the police when they are right, they have a tough job. But the militarization of local police (literally by hiring almost all former Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers - and figuratively with the switch to black uniforms, SWAT teams for towns of 2,000 people, combat gear, combat wear), it's all gone so far over the top. You can call the police over something that's fairly minor, but by the time they've been there for a few minutes the testosterone-fueled soldier-police have escalated things with their need to control everything, poor listening skills, and it's all because they've been trained to be soldiers. That easily morphs into thug cops when these young guys come in and they have a need to have the same rush they felt in the war zone.

Cops all across the country are out-of-control and it's due to the military mindset they have brought to local law enforcement.

If things are as the family says in this situation in Moore, think we'll see murder charges?

[Garin]

I support the police when they are right, they have a tough job. But the militarization of local police (literally by hiring almost all former Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers - and figuratively with the switch to black uniforms, SWAT teams for towns of 2,000 people, combat gear, combat wear), it's all gone so far over the top. You can call the police over something that's fairly minor, but by the time they've been there for a few minutes the testosterone-fueled soldier-police have escalated things with their need to control everything, poor listening skills, and it's all because they've been trained to be soldiers. That easily morphs into thug cops when these young guys come in and they have a need to have the same rush they felt in the war zone.

Cops all across the country are out-of-control and it's due to the military mindset they have brought to local law enforcement.

If things are as the family says in this situation in Moore, think we'll see murder charges?

Finally something we can agree on

[Chadanth]

Finally something we can agree on

I want to see more facts and circumstances from this situation, but I generally agree with your and zookeeper's sentiments.

[tomokc]

Cops all across the country are out-of-control and it's due to the military mindset they have brought to local law enforcement.

Wow!

[Midtowner]

If things are as the family says in this situation in Moore, think we'll see murder charges?

It is WAY too soon to speculate on that.

[zookeeper]

It is WAY too soon to speculate on that.

You're probably right, but had it been that father who beat somebody to death in the parking lot it wouldn't be too soon. They would file charges today.

[zookeeper]

Wow!

It's happening everywhere.

The militarization of U.S. police forces | Reuters - The Great Debate

And here's the economic reasons behind it. Isn't there always one? It's from Forbes (a quick snip is below the link):
The Militarizing of Local Police - Forbes

"Thank Department of Homeland Security grants of $3 billion per year and drug busts for such extravagant spending by local police departments. Items such as BearCats are deemed “necessary tools” to quality for federal grants (just cite disaster response or crime fighting to ensure they are covered by assorted programs) while federal law says that money from drug seizures can’t be spent on worn-out patrol cars and departmental operating costs, so big-ticket and otherwise cost-prohibitive items become no-brainers."
"What is equally mind-boggling is the reality that crime rates have been dropping year-to-year for well over a decade. Los Angeles hasn’t seen so few homicides since the 1960s. So, in justifying purchases like the BearCat, tanks and Predator drones (yep, coming to your neighborhood soon, too) and other equipment designed for battle instead of keeping the peace..."

[Jeepnokc]

You're probably right, but had it been that father who beat somebody to death in the parking lot it wouldn't be too soon. They would file charges today.

What I have always found interesting was that when a citizen shoots someone, they question him immediately and without lawyer unless requested. In police shootings, they are not allowed to question the officer for 24-72 hours so he has time to collect his thoughts.

[Midtowner]

What I have always found interesting was that when a citizen shoots someone, they question him immediately and without lawyer unless requested. In police shootings, they are not allowed to question the officer for 24-72 hours so he has time to collect his thoughts.

There's that blue line and whatnot. Really though, we've only heard from distraught family members who probably realize that the more they taint public opinion, the more dollars they will potentially end up with in a settlement with Moore PD, The Warren, etc. There should be video from more than one source and if that's the case, it may be very difficult for these guys to explain things away.

The thing to do is to hope the investigators do their jobs.

[Prunepicker]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...aiuxRelqHaTMgQ


How about a taser or some pepper spray, did they really have to beat him to death?

This appears to be senseless. I await more information.

[kelroy55]

There's that blue line and whatnot. Really though, we've only heard from distraught family members who probably realize that the more they taint public opinion, the more dollars they will potentially end up with in a settlement with Moore PD, The Warren, etc. There should be video from more than one source and if that's the case, it may be very difficult for these guys to explain things away.

The thing to do is to hope the investigators do their jobs.

I imagine the OBI will be doing the investigation.

[OKCTalker]

What I have always found interesting was that when a citizen shoots someone, they question him immediately and without lawyer unless requested. In police shootings, they are not allowed to question the officer for 24-72 hours so he has time to collect his thoughts.

I'm told by a criminal attorney (EDIT: attorney involved in criminal matters, not an attorney who is a criminal) that a citizen involved in a fatality - unless detained or arrested - is entitled to legal representation and a 24-48-hour wait before giving a statement. He used the example of officer-involved shootings in which they do not immediately give statements. Most people don't know this.

[kelroy55]

I'm told by a criminal attorney (EDIT: attorney involved in criminal matters, not an attorney who is a criminal) that a citizen involved in a fatality - unless detained or arrested - is entitled to legal representation and a 24-48-hour wait before giving a statement. He used the example of officer-involved shootings in which they do not immediately give statements. Most people don't know this.

The citizen has the right to not answer any questions as well. I wonder if the officer is required to fill out a report within the first 24.

[kevinpate]

The major difference in a LEO accused and a regular citizen accused is LEO folk will fall all over themselves pointing out to a LEO his right to a rep and the wait period, and it will be honored.
John or Jane Q however, unless he or she knows to say I want a lawyer, now, and say it fast, and remain steadfast, will have folk, often several, take runs at him/her quickly, encouraging him/her to get ahead of it, make sure his/her side is known, to help the quizzers help out and put in a good word with the DA, it's all messed up once the lawyers get involved, yada, yada, yada.

The constitution does provide protections, when properly asserted, but the constitution with an FOP collective bargaining vest tucked inside it provides a bit warmer wrap.

[hoya]

I support the police when they are right, they have a tough job. But the militarization of local police (literally by hiring almost all former Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers - and figuratively with the switch to black uniforms, SWAT teams for towns of 2,000 people, combat gear, combat wear), it's all gone so far over the top. You can call the police over something that's fairly minor, but by the time they've been there for a few minutes the testosterone-fueled soldier-police have escalated things with their need to control everything, poor listening skills, and it's all because they've been trained to be soldiers. That easily morphs into thug cops when these young guys come in and they have a need to have the same rush they felt in the war zone.

Cops all across the country are out-of-control and it's due to the military mindset they have brought to local law enforcement.

If things are as the family says in this situation in Moore, think we'll see murder charges?

I'd be happy with mandatory steroid testing for all law enforcement officers.

[RadicalModerate]

I'd be happy with mandatory steroid testing for all law enforcement officers.

When you say you would be "happy" . . . you were kidding, right?
Personally, I'd be overjoyed. (and, again, i am simply a person who believes in law, order, and the American way. actually wanted to be a police officer at one time . . . i think it had something to do with that "Serve and Protect" ClichéLogo. plus you could get paid for riding a motorcycle. =)

[Jeepnokc]

I'm told by a criminal attorney (EDIT: attorney involved in criminal matters, not an attorney who is a criminal) that a citizen involved in a fatality - unless detained or arrested - is entitled to legal representation and a 24-48-hour wait before giving a statement. He used the example of officer-involved shootings in which they do not immediately give statements. Most people don't know this.

I have been a prosecutor and/or criminal defense lawyer for 16 years and have never heard this. The citizen has the right to refuse questioning and ask for an attorney but there isn't any mandatory waiting period the cops must wait. They will try and question the suspect as soon as possible before they have time to collect themselves.

[Of Sound Mind]

Always... always... exercise your Miranda rights... that's the advice I've gotten from law enforcement officers, prosecutors and criminal defense attorneys. Talking has more upsides for the other side than for you. Even if you have nothing to hide and have done nothing wrong, always better to protect your rights and consult an attorney before making any statements if there is any chance you might be a potential target of any investigation.

[Midtowner]

It'll be smart to wait on the Medical Examiner's report before jumping to conclusions.

And as far as the other discussion:

[tomokc]

I have been a prosecutor and/or criminal defense lawyer for 16 years and have never heard this. The citizen has the right to refuse questioning and ask for an attorney but there isn't any mandatory waiting period the cops must wait. They will try and question the suspect as soon as possible before they have time to collect themselves.

Jeep - My mistake in implying that there was an established time frame ("24-48- wait"). However, it was explained that the purpose of the delay was so that the citizen could compose himself, think through what had happened, and give a more valuable statement other than, "I think ___," or "I kinda remember ___," or "You know, he might have ___."

The context was providing a statement to police after shooting an intruder in one's own home.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Always... always... exercise your Miranda rights... that's the advice I've gotten from law enforcement officers, prosecutors and criminal defense attorneys. Talking has more upsides for the other side than for you. Even if you have nothing to hide and have done nothing wrong, always better to protect your rights and consult an attorney before making any statements if there is any chance you might be a potential target of any investigation.

...and never, ever, consent to a search. Even if you have nothing to hide.