Fire Ford (and Holder)

[Spartan]

It seems like the pressure is mounting and every OSU person is done w Travis Ford, but he is still kept around by his massive $13M buyout. Now OSU boosters have to decide which is costlier - firing Ford or not firing Ford. Look at the ugly shambles of OSU basketball. This is a program that was once so powerful that nobody decent would play us in Stillwater and tickets were still so hard to get that they only sold half season tickets which still required a big donation.

I have been screaming that Mike Holder needs to go for years. He doesn't get along well with successful coaches like Gundy, who was forced to get an agent one year and then almost couldn't keep working for Holder. Coach Holder isn't well liked by anyone who knows him personally and is also just plain weird. The only reason he has his job is bc he was besties w Boone. Unfortunately Travis Ford can't even be fully responsible for the shambles he created bc at the end of the day we have a contract negotiated by Holder.

Ford literally made it to back-to-back tourneys (bare minimum expectation) w 5'7" Sean Sutton players (that he was probably fired for recruiting ironically) and Holder was so elated he have him a raise worth more than Gundy's salary at the time and signed him to TEN years with an insanely iron clad buyout. Holder went all in on Ford. And now OSU's once-premier program is an embarrassing shambles.

Talk all you want in the other thread about how embarrassed/sorry we feel for Marcus Smart and mad we are at Travis Ford but the culpable party is going to get off the hook. Like always. Because he's Boone's buddy.

[ylouder]

Ford does need to be replaced even with out the recent situations taken into account. He's been a poor leader from the start.

[rte66man]

It seems like the pressure is mounting and every OSU person is done w Travis Ford, but he is still kept around by his massive $13M buyout. Now OSU boosters have to decide which is costlier - firing Ford or not firing Ford. Look at the ugly shambles of OSU basketball. This is a program that was once so powerful that nobody decent would play us in Stillwater and tickets were still so hard to get that they only sold half season tickets which still required a big donation.

I have been screaming that Mike Holder needs to go for years. He doesn't get along well with successful coaches like Gundy, who was forced to get an agent one year and then almost couldn't keep working for Holder. Coach Holder isn't well liked by anyone who knows him personally and is also just plain weird. The only reason he has his job is bc he was besties w Boone. Unfortunately Travis Ford can't even be fully responsible for the shambles he created bc at the end of the day we have a contract negotiated by Holder.

Ford literally made it to back-to-back tourneys (bare minimum expectation) w 5'7" Sean Sutton players (that he was probably fired for recruiting ironically) and Holder was so elated he have him a raise worth more than Gundy's salary at the time and signed him to TEN years with an insanely iron clad buyout. Holder went all in on Ford. And now OSU's once-premier program is an embarrassing shambles.

Talk all you want in the other thread about how embarrassed/sorry we feel for Marcus Smart and mad we are at Travis Ford but the culpable party is going to get off the hook. Like always. Because he's Boone's buddy.

Not sure if Burns has the cojones to eat Ford's buyout. It will take some alumni/supporters (not Boone obviously) to step in and help Holder "see the light" and fire Ford.

[ou48A]

If you really want to fix the situation at OSU firing people above Holder will be totally necessary.
He's a real nice guy but right now you have a T. Boone Pickens yes man in charge of OSU.


Regardless of record low OSU graduation rates will supposedly keep the pokes out of the NCAA tournament next season.
At some point OSU's football team may start missing bowl games if they don't get their graduation rates up soon.

[Laramie]

Using the Sports Animal as a vehicle to advocate firing coaches is not going to get you anywhere; it will definitely make someone think twice about going to your program.

WWLS 98.1's Jim Traber has been running his mouth about firing OSU's Coach Ford. He tried the same thing with Sunny Golloway (OU's baseball coach). He constantly goes after people he think won't stand up to him. Remember when he had an issue about Nick Collison living in Seattle--like that was any of his business. Jenni Carlson (Oklahoman) has been on his hate list for years.

In previous years it was John Blake (OU head football coach) or Jeff Capel (OU head basketball coach).

This is why universities & colleges have their own board of regents to deal with these personnel matters and not air this out in public. It's called respecting the privacy of your employees.

Now Jim Traber is on Marcus Smart's case; notice that if he can't get his guests or co-hosts to agree he attacks them personally.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black?



Jim Traber loses his cool.

[Spartan]

Using the Sports Animal as a vehicle to advocate firing coaches is not going to get you anywhere; it will definitely make someone think twice about going to your program.

WWLS 98.1's Jim Traber has been running his mouth about firing OSU's Coach Ford. He tried the same thing with Sunny Golloway (OU's baseball coach). He constantly goes after people he think won't stand up to him. Remember when he had an issue about Nick Collison living in Seattle--like that was any of his business. Jenni Carlson (Oklahoman) has been on his hate list for years.

In previous years it was John Blake (OU head football coach) or Jeff Capel (OU head basketball coach).

This is why universities & colleges have their own board of regents to deal with these personnel matters and not air this out in public. It's called respecting the privacy of your employees.

Now Jim Traber is on Marcus Smart's case; notice that if he can't get his guests or co-hosts to agree he attacks them personally.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black?



Jim Traber loses his cool.

Uh..ok? This isn't the Animal.. And I graduated from OSU and pay alumni dues.

[Stew]

Using the Sports Animal as a vehicle to advocate firing coaches is not going to get you anywhere; it will definitely make someone think twice about going to your program.

WWLS 98.1's Jim Traber has been running his mouth about firing OSU's Coach Ford. He tried the same thing with Sunny Golloway (OU's baseball coach). He constantly goes after people he think won't stand up to him. Remember when he had an issue about Nick Collison living in Seattle--like that was any of his business. Jenni Carlson (Oklahoman) has been on his hate list for years.

In previous years it was John Blake (OU head football coach) or Jeff Capel (OU head basketball coach).

This is why universities & colleges have their own board of regents to deal with these personnel matters and not air this out in public. It's called respecting the privacy of your employees.

Now Jim Traber is on Marcus Smart's case; notice that if he can't get his guests or co-hosts to agree he attacks them personally.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black?



Jim Traber loses his cool.

Although you gotta admit Traber could run pretty good for a fat man.

[BoulderSooner]

Osu can't afford to fire ford. Osu sports lost 6 mil last year. Also when you give the university away to 1 man. He makes the choices and holder and ford are his guys.

[ou48A]

Osu can't afford to fire ford. Osu sports lost 6 mil last year. Also when you give the university away to 1 man. He makes the choices and holder and ford are his guys.

I had not see that OSU lost 6 million dollars but I do know that OSU revenue declined by over 10 million dollars last year....and was 76.6 million.

By comparsion OU revenue rose by over 17 million at 123.8 million
That's about 47 million dollars more than OSU.

Click to read all about it
The College Football Arms Race: Examining Athletic Department Revenues | The Key Play

[OKCretro]

I had not see that OSU lost 6 million dollars but I do know that OSU revenue declined by over 10 million dollars last year....and was 76.6 million.

By comparsion OU revenue rose by over 17 million at 123.8 million
That's about 47 million dollars more than OSU.

Click to read all about it
The College Football Arms Race: Examining Athletic Department Revenues | The Key Play

Just curious, do u know how much money OU athletics receives from the state? and how much osu athletics receives?

[Snowman]

Just curious, do u know how much money OU athletics receives from the state? and how much osu athletics receives?

None is listed as a line item of revenue sources in OU's annual report, which lists the major sources of at least 1% of its $84,200,000 in revenue. It looks like they broke out the donations to 17%, so an estimate for how much was not collected by the state due to the tax code could be done.

[dankrutka]

I posted this in the other thread, but this article nails why Travis Ford is failing as a coach and leader: Oklahoma State coach Travis Ford could have helped Marcus Smart - ESPN

[ou48A]

Just curious, do u know how much money OU athletics receives from the state? and how much osu athletics receives?

I reciting this from memory from about a year ago so it might not be exactly correct but I believe it's reasonably accurate.

Currently the state of OK appropriates about 8 million dollars to each university to be used for athletics. For osu this represents over 10% of poke revenue.... OU takes this same money and gives it to the academic side of the university, I believe it currently goes to the OU library.... This has gone on for many decades and by diverting this money for many decades it has helped OU become a better university.

Although it has been stopped, for many decades OU athletics also sent any surplus money they had at the end of the year to its academics. This was common in the part of the 40's, 50's, 60' and part of the 70's and in total it amounted to millions of dollars when millions really were a lot of money.


OU varsity athletics has never taken state tax money like OSU still does...
OU athletics has funded some of the student intramural sports for normal students.

Since all OK tax payers have a voice in how their tax money used I feel they can complain when OSU people say that OSU has arrived....
osu hasn't arrived until they reach self sufficiency levels much less sending money to the subsidize academics. OU gives the states tax payers a much better value than OSU.

The state of OK should end the subsidization of osu athletics IMO.

[Laramie]

I reciting this from memory from about a year ago so it might not be exactly correct but I believe it's reasonably accurate.

Currently the state of OK appropriates about 8 million dollars to each university to be used for athletics. For osu this represents over 10% of poke revenue.... OU takes this same money and gives it to the academic side of the university, I believe it currently goes to the OU library.... This has gone on for many decades and by diverting this money for many decades it has helped OU become a better university.

Although it has been stopped, for many decades OU athletics also sent any surplus money they had at the end of the year to its academics. This was common in the part of the 40's, 50's, 60' and part of the 70's and in total it amounted to millions of dollars when millions really were a lot of money.


OU varsity athletics has never taken state tax money like OSU still does...
OU athletics has funded some of the student intramural sports for normal students.

Since all OK tax payers have a voice in how their tax money used I feel they can complain when OSU people say that OSU has arrived....
osu hasn't arrived until they reach self sufficiency levels much less sending money to the subsidize academics. OU gives the states tax payers a much better value than OSU.

The state of OK should end the subsidization of osu athletics IMO.

ou48A:

While we are side tracked and

You have really exposed OSU's deficiencies as an institution in comparison to OU. We need the competition between two large strong state schools and if helping to subsidize OSU athletics which hasn't yet reached the level of efficiency--then so be it. Having taken graduate courses at OU and institutes at Oklahoma State; we have two good universities of higher learning about which we should be proud. It's not all about athletics and the drama behind winning.

Oklahoma State will require some investments from our state to advance its standings. The more competitive both of our two largest institutions become, the better moving forward into the future for Tulsa, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State & Central Oklahoma.

Universities in the State of Oklahoma's national rankings according to one source: #86 Tulsa and #101 Oklahoma. President David L. Boren (Rhodes Scholar) has progressed OU's academics during his tenure. Our goal is to crack the top 100s. OSU's President Burns Hargis is a banker by profession and he was brought in to get a handle on the finances at OSU; they are making progress under his leadership.

National University Rankings | Top National Universities | US News Best Colleges

Boone Pickens is a shining example of an alum who gives back to the school credited with helping in his individual prosperity. It's good for OU-OSU to compete in sports and more importantly on the academic side. We're not the state's top institution according to the national rankings. University of Tulsa #86 wears that crown.

Remember Dr. George L. Cross detailed why the university needed the money. When he finished, one ... Dr. Cross replied, ''We want to build a university our football team can be proud of.'' ''It was a cynical remark ... University of Oklahoma has progress since the days of that cynical remark.


OU needs to become more competitive toward those top 100 shining stars and especially those south of the Red River like #18 Rice, #52 Texas, #69 Texas A & M, #75 Baylor and #82 Texas Christian.

[onthestrip]

Weird, I thought this was about whether or not Ford should be fired. Which the answer to that question is yes.

[OKVision4U]

They will all be removed in-time. Smart / Ford / Holder.

[dankrutka]

To continue off topic...

These rankings are both circular and irresponsive of changes at universities. They rely heavily on people's opinions, many of whom are not really fit to judge the "academic quality" of universities as a whole. The primary purpose of these rankings are to sell magazines. Worrying about whether OU is #103 or #72 on this list is a waste of time and really distracts from the most important work going on at universities. In reality, it's more important that students find a good program that fits their specific needs. This sometimes means choosing a university that is ranked low or not at all. Situated context is more important than generally arbitrary rankings.

We far too often site random rankings without looking at the subjective methodologies behind them and we therefore deem the rankings 'objective.' I wish every ranking system had to first explain HOW they came up with the rankings. Then we wouldn't put so much weight into them. Here's their methodology: Best Colleges Ranking Criteria and Weights - US News

[OKCretro]

Laramie,
#1 when u mentioned schools south of the red river you left off SMU which is#60 on your list.

you also failed to mention that OSU came in at #142.

when a liberal says the word "investments" that's just code for tax dollars.
OSU wants and gladly accepts Oklahoma tax dollars but refuses to sell tickets to every Oklahoman. This is just not right.

Lots of state's have their 2 higher education schools in different conferences. Look at Iowa, south Carolina, florida, Colorado.

The two schools don't really compete, look at football the last 10 years, look at the series record in basketball between the two schools.

I have no problem with tax dollars going to help osu academically just no need for more "investments" going to the athletic program.

[ou48A]

ou48A:

While we are side tracked and

You have really exposed OSU's deficiencies as an institution in comparison to OU. We need the competition between two large strong state schools and if helping to subsidize OSU athletics which hasn't yet reached the level of efficiency--then so be it. Having taken graduate courses at OU and institutes at Oklahoma State; we have two good universities of higher learning about which we should be proud. It's not all about athletics and the drama behind winning.

Oklahoma State will require some investments from our state to advance its standings. The more competitive both of our two largest institutions become, the better moving forward into the future for Tulsa, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State & Central Oklahoma.

Universities in the State of Oklahoma's national rankings according to one source: #86 Tulsa and #101 Oklahoma. President David L. Boren (Rhodes Scholar) has progressed OU's academics during his tenure. Our goal is to crack the top 100s. OSU's President Burns Hargis is a banker by profession and he was brought in to get a handle on the finances at OSU; they are making progress under his leadership.

National University Rankings | Top National Universities | US News Best Colleges

Boone Pickens is a shining example of an alum who gives back to the school credited with helping in his individual prosperity. It's good for OU-OSU to compete in sports and more importantly on the academic side. We're not the state's top institution according to the national rankings. University of Tulsa #86 wears that crown.

Remember Dr. George L. Cross detailed why the university needed the money. When he finished, one ... Dr. Cross replied, ''We want to build a university our football team can be proud of.'' ''It was a cynical remark ... University of Oklahoma has progress since the days of that cynical remark.


OU needs to become more competitive toward those top 100 shining stars and especially those south of the Red River like #18 Rice, #52 Texas, #69 Texas A & M, #75 Baylor and #82 Texas Christian.

I generally agree with you.... What get's lost in all this is that a I really do want a strong academic OSU.
It sure looks like the pokes have sold out to win at all cost in sports.
But regardless state tax payers, many who could care less about sports, should not be funding osu athletic's.

Yes, OU has lots of work left in all aspects of its university. I would be happy to discuss my views in another thread on how OU can become better university.

[ou48A]

OSU wants and gladly accepts Oklahoma tax dollars but refuses to sell tickets to every Oklahoman. This is just not right.

Not only that, for several years osu will not sell tickets at face value when there are still thousands of unsold OU- osu tickets.

[Laramie]

Laramie,
#1 when u mentioned schools south of the red river you left off SMU which is#60 on your list.

you also failed to mention that OSU came in at #142.

when a liberal says the word "investments" that's just code for tax dollars.
OSU wants and gladly accepts Oklahoma tax dollars but refuses to sell tickets to every Oklahoman. This is just not right.

Lots of state's have their 2 higher education schools in different conferences. Look at Iowa, south Carolina, florida, Colorado.

The two schools don't really compete, look at football the last 10 years, look at the series record in basketball between the two schools.


I have no problem with tax dollars going to help osu academically just no need for more "investments" going to the athletic program.

Thanks OKCretro for acknowledging #60 SMU and #142 Oklahoma State. SMU-OSU deserves credit where it is due.

Oklahoma State University definitely needs some 'as you said' liberal's 'tax dollars' or a conservative's 'government subsidies.'

[Spartan]

I had not see that OSU lost 6 million dollars but I do know that OSU revenue declined by over 10 million dollars last year....and was 76.6 million.

By comparsion OU revenue rose by over 17 million at 123.8 million
That's about 47 million dollars more than OSU.

Click to read all about it
The College Football Arms Race: Examining Athletic Department Revenues | The Key Play

Yes, your academic dept is on the rise now, and ours is falling. That had financial ramifications. Shocking I know.

[Spartan]

Weird, I thought this was about whether or not Ford should be fired. Which the answer to that question is yes.

BoulderSooner and ou48a have weird specific obsessions and really should just be blocked. It's hilarious that the OU fans are saying "I generally agree with you but.." It's like watching Fox and Friends in the AM. And no we're debating whether to spend on higher ed?? Which OU gets an undue chunk of.. Which is one reason OSU's academic ranking has fallen 25 spots recently, though the main reason (superficial) is admissions.

[OKCretro]

Spartan,

Fact- OSU athletics have been a complete embarrassment to the state of the Oklahoma in the year. You cannot argue this. There is no debate

[Spartan]

Spartan,

Fact- OSU athletics have been a complete embarrassment to the state of the Oklahoma in the year. You cannot argue this. There is no debate

I'm embarrassed bc our high standards have been seriously compromised, but I am having difficulty seeing how this affects you.