Neighborhoods Near NW44th and Portland

[Pete]

^

Perhaps for the next MAPS one key corridor in each ward could be identified for improvements with seed money for an on-going citizens group.

[mkjeeves]

Good idea. I think 10th deserves some special consideration though, probably both directions. It runs right through the urban core, including to the doorstep of Saint Anthony's.

[CCOKC]

I just had to respond because I live at this very intersection so it was a shock to see my address as the title of a thread. I have lived in my house for 15 years now and have not had any problems. There was one time when I forgot to lock my door when I went to bed and the previous owner walked into my house and started eating my husband's leftovers at 2 in the morning after the bar down the street closed and he forgot he had not lived in this house for 20+ years. I love the location. It takes me 15 minutes at most to get almost anywhere in OKC being so close to I-44. When my children were young they went to school at St John's Episcopal School at 51st and Brookline. I worked, went to church, grocery shopped, banked, exercised, went to Target, got gas for my car all within 1 1/12 miles of where I live. Everything was very convenient. I say all of that in the past tense because now that I own a business that offices downtown I spend the majority of my time in Midtown and am planning to move when I can find time to fix up our house.

[bluedogok]

My father is involved with the West Tenth Street Neighborhood association, they are trying to improve the area but as others have stated, the run down apartment complexes are the large part of the problem. If those could be dealt with most of the neighborhoods could be decent, middle income areas and would help the schools greatly.

As far as the NW 44th & Portland area, I lived in Mayfair West (50th & Independence) before moving to Austin and have friends who live SW of 50th & Portland and have found the area to be pretty nice for an older area.

[Spartan]

I'd support Maps to Revitalize the 10th street corridor.

To revitalize what? Crappy ranch style apartment complexes?

[Spartan]

^

Perhaps for the next MAPS one key corridor in each ward could be identified for improvements with seed money for an on-going citizens group.

Or support CDCs in each ward that qualifies for CDBG funds.

[zookeeper]

My father is involved with the West Tenth Street Neighborhood association, they are trying to improve the area but as others have stated, the run down apartment complexes are the large part of the problem. If those could be dealt with most of the neighborhoods could be decent, middle income areas and would help the schools greatly.

As far as the NW 44th & Portland area, I lived in Mayfair West (50th & Independence) before moving to Austin and have friends who live SW of 50th & Portland and have found the area to be pretty nice for an older area.

I spent most of my grade school years at Mayfair 1963-1967

[ljbab728]

To revitalize what? Crappy ranch style apartment complexes?

Spartan, what a ridiculous condescending statement. It's very unlikely that was what was meant and there was no reason for such a snarky comment.

[KenRagsdale]

There are pockets of fine, older neighborhoods in many parts of the city. It's been my experience flawed, negative perceptions by those living outside such neighborhoods are both innacurate and common.

[Spartan]

Spartan, what a ridiculous condescending statement. It's very unlikely that was what was meant and there was no reason for such a snarky comment.

So then what would we be revitalizing there?? Details matter.

By the way mkjeeves, I know you hate downtown and think that's the only place public funds are spent (which is virtually the complete opposite of reality) but the city recently did extensive, multi-million dollar streetscape improvements along NW 23rd from I-44 to a Lake Overholser.

The reality is some streets really are just better than others. 23rd is a better street to work with than 10th which you may have to just demolish and move on. 23rd and 16th go through actual neighborhoods.

[foodiefan]

Their are some nice, well maintained older homes in Windsor Hills, however, the area is surrounded by increasing blight and run down businesses. Long term, I question if the home values would remain consistent or would they decrease over time?

don't know. . . but there are many great neighborhoods in the City that are surrounded by similar "circumstances". . . and seem to be doing fine/reviving. But, what I DO know is that there are a lot of "old timers" as well as new young families (who are excited to be here!!) moving into these areas and a lot of "re-vitalization" efforts are taking place. Home values can come and go. . .and they do. . . but I didn't move here (necessarily) for the potential for increased property value (although I wouldn't be pleased if I sell at a loss when the time comes). I personally chose an older area when I moved. . . I love (in this order) the diversity of the overall area, the quality construction of my home (built in the early 60s), the accessibility to pretty much everything within 20 minutes (Penn Square 7 min, downtown 15, extrapolate from there), the trees, my neighbors, an active neighborhood association. . . we are certainly not perfect. . but we are a great place to live!!

[mkjeeves]

So then what would we be revitalizing there?? Details matter.

By the way mkjeeves, I know you hate downtown and think that's the only place public funds are spent (which is virtually the complete opposite of reality) but the city recently did extensive, multi-million dollar streetscape improvements along NW 23rd from I-44 to a Lake Overholser.

The reality is some streets really are just better than others. 23rd is a better street to work with than 10th which you may have to just demolish and move on. 23rd and 16th go through actual neighborhoods.

Speaking of non reality. It seems to be a common affliction for some people who claim to love OKC to actually hate 99 percent of it and really only care about the myth of the urban utopia they've built in their head in place of reality.

Based on your comments, you've never looked at a map, much less visited any of that part of the city in any recent history. Tenth has housing just beyond the frontage when it isn't on the frontage. Also is already four lane with much commercial on the frontage. 16th isnt' and doesn't have that. Tenth runs through the urban core. 23rd is far north of that. And tenth has blight. As far as having upgraded 23rd 44th to lake Overholser, at least a couple of miles of that is Bethany and what other improvements have been made by OKC east from there to 44 are unmemorable. I'll shoot you some photos next time I make the drive.

I don't hate downtown. I hate the urbanistas who have tried to co-opt it to suit their shortsighted elitist agenda that doesn't speak to the interests of the 99% of the taxpaying citizens who make up OKC.

[Spartan]

I don't understand how you call us shortsighted when our neighborhoods are improving dramatically and yours are going downhill fast.

[mkjeeves]

You mean downtown where we, the 99%, have voted to send our money to fix it. For now.

[soonerguru]

Good idea. I think 10th deserves some special consideration though, probably both directions. It runs right through the urban core, including to the doorstep of Saint Anthony's.

I could be wrong, but I believe there are already streetscape enhancements planned for NW 10th as a result of the 2007 bond issue.

[soonerguru]

So then what would we be revitalizing there?? Details matter.

By the way mkjeeves, I know you hate downtown and think that's the only place public funds are spent (which is virtually the complete opposite of reality) but the city recently did extensive, multi-million dollar streetscape improvements along NW 23rd from I-44 to a Lake Overholser.

The reality is some streets really are just better than others. 23rd is a better street to work with than 10th which you may have to just demolish and move on. 23rd and 16th go through actual neighborhoods.

These improvements are not completed, they are just under way, but they are going to be a dramatic improvement. As a resident of the area, I'm very appreciative and excited.

[Spartan]

Thanks for clarification, and btw to clarify on my end I am bullish on the Musgrave Pennington, Linwood, Drexel, etc area. Great traditional, mid century etc., homes with character. It's not wealthy and doesn't need to be in order to have character, sense of place, and be worthy of preservation.

But some things, like ranch style apartment complex, abandoned strip centers, and gas stations just aren't worthy of preservation.

[foodiefan]

But some things, like ranch style apartment complex, abandoned strip centers, and gas stations just aren't worthy of preservation.

Don't disagree. . .but just because some of those things "surround" an area, doesn't meant the whole area is beyond . . . ummm. . . redemption/rehabilitation/rejuvenation!!

[SSEiYah]

Yesterday we found two houses for sale in the area of NW44th and Portland. It looks to be an old (mid-1920's) upscale area and seems to have been well-maintained.

Mid 1920s? This is a post-ww2 subburban neighborhood, mid-1960s for the most part.

Its not bad, I have a friend in the area, its not that bad for the price. Some houses are run-down but quite a few have been well kept, probably depends on the street. Make sure to have an asbestos/lead paint inspection before closing though.

[ljbab728]

But some things, like ranch style apartment complex, abandoned strip centers, and gas stations just aren't worthy of preservation.

And that's exactly why you are not understanding. You equated revitalization with preservation. Those are not the same.

[Spartan]

Ok, then why revitalize? That's even more involved.

[kevinpate]

Perhaps because if one fails to revitalize an area, either a slow decline or a rapid decline to decay, rot and eventual abandonment is the assured result.
One could always choose to leave a ring of building corpses around a renewed urban core and a shiny outer ring of sprawl, but eventually, that will be an awful big boneyard.

[Urbanized]

I agree with future MAPS projects (assuming the brand is still viable going forward) targeting key corridors in the city. Originally after the first MAPS I hoped for precisely this approach going forward, but that was because I didn't understand the depth of need in schools throughout the city. Fortunately Kirk Humphreys and others at the time were wiser than I would have been, and MAPS for Kids raised $700 million+ and transformed school facilities city-wide.

Unfortunately we are so sprawled that if you spread a $500 to $700 (depending on length) pool of money equally throughout the city on capital improvements it would be too thin to make a real impact. But if you targeted corridors that everyone in a particular part of town uses for hardscape improvements and backed it up with intensive planning assistance I believe it would create change that would spread deeper into the respective neighborhoods via the private sector.

Combined with a citywide recasting of our transit system I believe both would help stabilize and renew our struggling inner suburban areas. Find a way to limit unrestricted growth at the fringe and we could eventually really transform the entire community.

[mkjeeves]

I agree with future MAPS projects (assuming the brand is still viable going forward) targeting key corridors in the city. Originally after the first MAPS I hoped for precisely this approach going forward, but that was because I didn't understand the depth of need in schools throughout the city. Fortunately Kirk Humphreys and others at the time were wiser than I would have been, and MAPS for Kids raised $700 million+ and transformed school facilities city-wide.

Unfortunately we are so sprawled that if you spread a $500 to $700 (depending on length) pool of money equally throughout the city on capital improvements it would be too thin to make a real impact. But if you targeted corridors that everyone in a particular part of town uses for hardscape improvements and backed it up with intensive planning assistance I believe it would create change that would spread deeper into the respective neighborhoods via the private sector.

Combined with a citywide recasting of our transit system I believe both would help stabilize and transform our struggling inner suburban areas. Find a way to limit unrestricted growth at the fringe and we could eventually really transform the entire community.

Exactly.

[Pete]

We could also challenge and engage each councilperson to present the best corridor then take responsibility for forming and keeping active a citizen group that would decide how the money would be spent and improvements maintained.

Would help get the support of the various wards and the council member that represents them.

And tying in a better bus/transit system is a fantastic idea.