NBA Fudging Attendance Numbers

[Kerry]

I just watch the Hornets gane in N.O. and saw tons of empty seats. In fact, the upper deck of the N.O. Arena was blacked out so you couldn't see anything during the game. However, on NBATV they showed some highlights and at one point in the first quarter there was a short glimpse of the mostly empty upper deck. Out of curosity I went on NBA.com and saw they reported a packed house of 18,202. How can that be when there were obviously thousands of empty seats and there were still tickets availble for the game? The arena only seats 18,000 and with tickets still available at game time how can there be 202 more people show up then the place can hold.

[Patrick]

I just watch the Hornets gane in N.O. and saw tons of empty seats. In fact, the upper deck of the N.O. Arena was blacked out so you couldn't see anything during the game. However, on NBATV they showed some highlights and at one point in the first quarter there was a short glimpse of the mostly empty upper deck. Out of curosity I went on NBA.com and saw they reported a packed house of 18,202. How can that be when there were obviously thousands of empty seats and there were still tickets availble for the game? The arena only seats 18,000 and with tickets still available at game time how can there be 202 more people show up then the place can hold.

Well, the attendance is paid attendance. And if it's like last year, maybe those paid tickets were purchased by someone, and they were trying to give them out for free again.

[Easy180]

I saw the crowd as I was skipping through the channels...My first thought was pathetic...Shinn and Stern can't be too pleased with that turnout especially with Yao Ming in town

[Doug Loudenback]

I just watch the Hornets gane in N.O. and saw tons of empty seats. In fact, the upper deck of the N.O. Arena was blacked out so you couldn't see anything during the game. However, on NBATV they showed some highlights and at one point in the first quarter there was a short glimpse of the mostly empty upper deck. Out of curosity I went on NBA.com and saw they reported a packed house of 18,202. How can that be when there were obviously thousands of empty seats and there were still tickets availble for the game? The arena only seats 18,000 and with tickets still available at game time how can there be 202 more people show up then the place can hold.

Kerry, this is an exact quote from the guy who does the radio post-game show (not Jerry V, the other guy) ... as he was signing off, he announced the official attendance (which I did not catch), and then he said, "A far cry from those actually in the building tonight."

I'll be curious to see if any AP, ESPN, etc., articles comment on this.

[mranderson]

Kerry, this is an exact quote from the guy who does the radio post-game show (not Jerry V, the other guy) ... as he was signing off, he announced the official attendance (which I did not catch), and then he said, "A far cry from those actually in the building tonight."

I'll be curious to see if any AP, ESPN, etc., articles comment on this.

Keep this up and I can bet you they take the "New Orleans" off the name permanantly.

[Midtowner]

Unfortunately, I think attendance isn't everything here. The NBA is a VERY image-conscious league. If it requires them to move the team back there "permanently" so that they can lose some money to prove to the world that the move is needed, I think that's what happens.

[Doug Loudenback]

Unfortunately, I think attendance isn't everything here. The NBA is a VERY image-conscious league. If it requires them to move the team back there permanently so that they can lose some money to prove to the world that the move is needed, I think that's what happens.

Agreed, Midtowner. I can see no way that the Hornets will not return to New Orleans. Wish it were otherwise ...

[Watson410]

It would probably be a better deal for us, If they Hornets did go back to New Orleans. Then, Clay Bennett could move the Supersonics to OKC.

[Midtowner]

I'm not sure that Clay Bennett is out there trying to move the Sonics to OKC.

The situation for that investor group is a very, very good "buy low, sell high" situation.

They're using the fact that they're from OKC to put some real pressure on the Seattle area to build the Sonics an arena. Once that's done, the team's value will be sky high. They can sell for millions of dollars in profit.

Or else, they move the team here. Either way, they're winners.

My first scenario (buy low, sell high) I think is realistic. That's why I think they give a real effort in the Seattle area to get a new arena built at the taxpayer's expense. They're in this to make money, and it really looks like a win-win from here (for them).

The Hornets thing might be our best bet, but I think we'll have to admit to a few years of going without. The NBA will almost certainly move the team back to NO so that it can flop. We might get them back around 2010-2011 though.

[SoonerDave]

Understand something very important here. It wouldn't matter if there were only the two teams, the refs, and five cheerleaders in the auditorium, the NBA would report 18,000 in attendance.

This is all posturing prior to returning the Nornets to N.O. What I feared all along is precisely what's going to happen - OKC is going to end up holding the bag on this, with no team from anywhere. I have a sneaking suspicion that someone in the Seattle suburbs is going to get something done to keep the Sonics, and Stern is going to force Shinn back to NO, and we end up with zilch.

Don't mean to be cynical, but more of a realist.

-SoonerDave

[Midtowner]

SD: I think you're probably right, and we're without a team for '08-10 at least. In the NBA, Oklahoma City is going to be a scare tactic for awhile. Teams will use us as a pawn telling their home towns "If you don't give us 'x,' we're going to Oklahoma City." The Barnett group might even buy the team so that they can sell them back at a profit.

I think we're worth more to team owners in that role than we are actually having a team.

[SoonerDave]

I think we're worth more to team owners in that role than we are actually having a team.

Yes, and the worst of that is that by the time any theoretical Sonics move might occur, the Ford Center is going to be old enough to need some upgrades, as odd as that may sound. Interestingly, that's the secret, hidden problem any NBA move here carries with it - what happens in a relatively few years (3-5 year frame) when the time will come to upgrade the Ford Center?

I recall reading something fairly recently that said dollars and plans were already in the works for a new/bigger scoreboard, and a new video system for the Ford Center, but that was a few months ago. The point is that even if we get an NBA franchise, the heat will be on almost instantaneously for a plan to keep the Ford Center current enough to avoid the prospect of OKC grasping to keep what it would barely have had.

-SoonerDave

[BDP]

I agree, SD and MT. With the Sonics, Bennett is in great position to get paid and/or own a team in OKC. It's up to the Seattle market right now, imo. The Hornets are going back because that's what Stern wants.

The Ford Center will need some improvements, but it is profitable as is, given the right agreement. But, considering how cheap the Ford Center was in the first place, OKC will still come out way ahead compared to many markets even after improving it. If OKC does get a team, I think the city will have been very prudent in saving money in the prospecting period and then upgrading it for a permanent major league tennant.

As for watching on TV to get a feel for the attendance, the only way to truly get a feel for it is to watch it at the end of the game, and even then only if it is close. People get up and down at an NBA during action a lot more than, say, football, which has several planned stops. I've been to many games where it looks 30% full at the beginning of the second period, yet is packed for a last minute finish.

[metro]

Yes, and the worst of that is that by the time any theoretical Sonics move might occur, the Ford Center is going to be old enough to need some upgrades, as odd as that may sound. Interestingly, that's the secret, hidden problem any NBA move here carries with it - what happens in a relatively few years (3-5 year frame) when the time will come to upgrade the Ford Center?

I recall reading something fairly recently that said dollars and plans were already in the works for a new/bigger scoreboard, and a new video system for the Ford Center, but that was a few months ago. The point is that even if we get an NBA franchise, the heat will be on almost instantaneously for a plan to keep the Ford Center current enough to avoid the prospect of OKC grasping to keep what it would barely have had.

-SoonerDave

Yes SD, it is in the works. Some of the upgrades (mainly security) have already started and the new scoreboard and other upgrades should be finished I believe in February if I remember right.

[ChristianConservative]

Clay is using Seattle. He doesn't plan to keep the team there. He's set the bar so high....there's no way they're going to invest the kind of money into an arena that he's requesting.

[BDP]

And if they do, he and his partners will make millions from it.

[ChristianConservative]

Trust me, I'd say 15% chance it will happen for him in Seattle.

[BDP]

You probaby know more than me, because he's in your businesses, but I still think it's 50/50. He is spending a lot of money in Seattly just to establish good faith. He's certainly going beyond the norm of most empty gestures.

However, I'm not worried about OKC. I think that whatever happens with the Sonics, OKC is better off. As long as Bennett is interested in OKC having an NBA team, I will continue to believe it will happen in the next 5 years. I just wouldn't bet on what team it will be.

[Turanacus]

the opener in new orleans was a sellout, there were a lot of no-shows but they did sell all of the tickets. the saints played in new orleans earlier in the day so the hornets organization expected a lot of empty seats. i guess this means that a lot of the people expected to show didn't buy the tickets? Also, opener in OKC tonight, not a sellout... Not good for the OKC crowd... We still have over 1000 tickets available as of 8:am this morning.

[metro]

They will sell or close to it, the thing is OKC will put tons of butts in seats the whole season, NO will struggle for the 6 or so games they have.

[fromdust]

Also, opener in OKC tonight, not a sellout... Not good for the OKC crowd... We still have over 1000 tickets available as of 8:am this morning.

it was a full house tonight.

[Doug Loudenback]

it was a full house tonight.

Yep! Paid attendance was capacity (19,164) and not many empty seats. I'd be happier if the game was a bit less close, but 4-0 is 4-0! Good crowd!

[Easy180]

It was a great crowd with just a few seats open in the 3rd level...The Hornets look good so far and definitely have more guys that can score this year

[Doug Loudenback]

Sound quality was horrible, though. I had good seats near mid-court in the 2nd level and the words coming out of the sound system sounded like mush. If you weren't watching, you wouldn't know who scored or did what ... hopefully this will get taken care of, yesterday!

[Easy180]

We noticed that too Doug....Is any of the renovation money going towards the sound system??