University North Park

[Midtowner]

Taking "Gainesville" off the Factory Outlet would greatly improve the image of this "retail" outlet. Gainesville is a Walmart/Tractor Supply kind of town full of Podunks and gang bangers. Norman/Moore/South OKC on the other hand, can support a upscale shopping center. Norman, has a lot more upscale citizens than most towns (Drive around the town and see the beautiful neighborhoods and large homes). Also a lot of the horse rancher folks ($$$)from out in the sticks will come to North Park and shop at the "upscale stores".

Don't forget the wealthy influx of Sooner fans who come out for weekends at Norman several times each year. Football games could be absolutely huge for an upscale retail store which offers something these fans can't find at home.

[traxx]

If you want to argue more about it, I really suggest you visit their website so you can compare their other locations with Norman…Boca Raton, Beverly Hills, Palos Verdes…I’m not being mean, it’s just realistic.

Not trying to argue, but it seems you want to. I was just answering your question. You asked how many people I knew in Norman shopped at Saks on a regular basis. Your meaning being that everyone in Norman is too poor to shop at Saks. I was just saying that's not the case, people in Norman don't shop at Saks regularly because there's not one around.

That's like insinuating that people in Norman are too poor to afford a meal at Senor Frog's and that's why they don't eat there regularly. However, since there's not one within a 1000 miles of Norman that might have something to do with why Norman citizens aren't regular customers there.

[BG918]

^ You can find most of the same items you can find at Saks or Nordstroms at Norman's own Caymans on Main, on a smaller-scale. I think it would be cool to see a larger two story Cayman's open up on Campus Corner with womens apparel on the first floor and mens on the second. It would be absolutely packed on gamedays and bring more people to the Corner.

[Spartan]

I have honestly never been to Caymen's. Is it any better than Harold's? That I do buy stuff from...

[allure]

Your meaning being that everyone in Norman is too poor to shop at Saks. I was just saying that's not the case, people in Norman don't shop at Saks regularly because there's not one around.

On a regular basis, NO, I don't think enough of Norman could support a Saks, regardless of whoever lives or travels to Norman, for whatever reason.

This has gone beyond our general discussion of 'upscale stores', though, as we are just talking about Saks Fifth Avenue now. And no, Norman will NEVER have a Saks Fifth Avenue, period. You are arguing with the geodemographics now, not me.

[allure]

^ You can find most of the same items you can find at Saks or Nordstroms at Norman's own Caymans on Main, on a smaller-scale.

...a smaller scale and far less expensive scale.

We are talking Saks, people, the same store Winona Ryder stole over $6,000 worth of merchandise! That's the point, everything in Saks is extremly expensive and I really don't think it's realistic that they would ever be successful in a town like Norman. We are talking $1500 for one item....I don't think so, not here!!

[Easy180]

so allure..I can't really tell from your posts...Are you saying that Norman can afford a Saks??

My wife would do backflips if the metro ever does get a Nordstrom's...Wide variety of $150 jeans and $200 shoes....Hurts me just to think about it!

[Midtowner]

Allure must be too poor to be able to shop at Nordsrom's and Saks.

Not all of us are poor. Some of us don't mind spending money for quality and uniqueness.

[allure]

so allure..I can't really tell from your posts...Are you saying that Norman can afford a Saks??

My wife would do backflips if the metro ever does get a Nordstrom's...Wide variety of $150 jeans and $200 shoes....Hurts me just to think about it!

No, I don't think Norman can afford a Saks.

[allure]

Allure must be too poor to be able to shop at Nordsrom's and Saks.

Not all of us are poor. Some of us don't mind spending money for quality and uniqueness.

No, I am not poor and can afford to shop wherever I want.

Have you been to a Saks Fifth Avenue?

[Midtowner]

Yep, I have. I agree with you that Norman is probably not the best place for one of these things. Penn Square Mall, however, might actually be able to support a Nordstrom's/Sak's/N.M.'s, etc. Oklahoma City is certainly a large enough market to support something like this.

We shouldn't have to drive to Dallas for decent shopping.

Go over to Sak's site, they are in Tulsa, Baton Rouge, and several other markets I wouldn't quite put at the top of the retail food chain. OKC is definitely in that class as far as being able to support upscale shopping. There is simply no reasonable ground upon which you can stand claiming that OKC can't support one of these stores.

I'm with you that Norman probably isn't the best place, but OKC in general? Perhaps a Bricktown canal-side location when the I-40 relocation takes place? I think such a thing could really be successful.

[allure]

Yep, I have. I agree with you that Norman is probably not the best place for one of these things... Oklahoma City is certainly a large enough market to support something like this.

There is simply no reasonable ground upon which you can stand claiming that OKC can't support one of these stores.

I'm with you that Norman probably isn't the best place, but OKC in general?

Have you read any of my previous posts?? That's exactly what I already said. This was always about Norman ( University North Park), not about OKC. My argument was I don't think NORMAN can support a Saks and the list of upscale stores that it can support is limited.

[Midtowner]

I'll admit -- I didn't read all 5 pages. I came in on the tail end of this and found it mildly interesting.

Okay, we agree then. Locating in Norman would essentially be ignoring the Edmond, Yukon, NW OKC people who would probably end up being 4/5 or so of the clientelle. The only way a business like Sak's will make it in the OKC metro is with a central and convenient location.

[allure]

I'll admit -- I didn't read all 5 pages. I came in on the tail end of this and found it mildly interesting.

Okay, we agree then. Locating in Norman would essentially be ignoring the Edmond, Yukon, NW OKC people who would probably end up being 4/5 or so of the clientelle. The only way a business like Sak's will make it in the OKC metro is with a central and convenient location.

Thank you! That's all I was trying to say about certain upscale stores and Norman.

[Midtowner]

After some consideration, perhaps Sak's could make it in Norman. Let's even say for the sake of argument that they could.

What sane, rational person is going to say that locating in Norman is better than locating in central OKC?

Norman/Moore might have passable locations, but Downtown, Bricktown, Penn Square could offer far better opportunities for stores like Sak's.

[Spartan]

Wow, about half the posts on this page are hidden. Cool beans!

Personally, Midtowner, I would consider any location in Norman far superior to the rest of the metro save the inner OKC areas.

[Midtowner]

Build in Norman, you basically squander having any significant number of people from NW OKC, Edmond and Yukon showing up.

Penn Square, downtown, or a Bricktown location would be far superior to Norman. Why would they choose to make less money? Norman might 'work,' but that's not the concern when someone like Sak's builds a new store. They care about what 'works best.' Norman just ain't it.

[Spartan]

Norman is by and large far superior to Edmond or Yukon, IMO, but I'll save it for another debate...

Norman has just the development for a Saks.

[allure]

Norman is by and large far superior to Edmond or Yukon

...uhh

You can't just say that b/c your pride for Norman overrules your demographic knowledge of the OKC area, sorry.

[allure]

On a brighter note, Does anyone know if they really are going to put a Chipotle in UNP??

[poe]

i think the saks/nordstrom/neiman marcus horse is dead.

[Spartan]

Ye have little faith...

[Midtowner]

Norman is by and large far superior to Edmond or Yukon, IMO, but I'll save it for another debate...

Norman has just the development for a Saks.

Really? Based on what?

Norman has a 2003 population estimate of 99,197 and a median income of $36,713 according to epodunk.com.

According to that same site, Edmond has a 2003 est. pop. of 71,643 and a median income of $54,556. Add that to Yukon with its population of 21,152 and its median income of $45,265, add to that the richer parts of Oklahoma City which are probably greater in term of numbers and income, throw in South OKC which is closer to central OKC than it is to Norman, and things start to really come together.

Based on just those two suburbs, the Edmond/Yukon market is better than the Norman market. Factor in Oklahoma City itself, and it's no contest.

A retail establishment like Sak's wants to be within a close proximity to the greatest number of potential customers. Norman does not offer this, central OKC would (as far as this Metro is concerned).

If you have something better than civic pride to argue, please feel free. Otherwise, I think the facts speak for themselves.

[Spartan]

You have cleary never been TO Norman...

There's more than just I 35 ya know...

[Midtowner]

I've been to Norman.

Your response is not responsive. Look at the demographic information I've laid out there. Unless you're just in a complete state of denial, you're just wrong. The best location for a Sak's type store in the metro is not Norman.

Can you give a more compelling reason than I? Your non-responsive response "There's more than just I 35 ya know" doesn't really cut it.