2014 Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion

[no1cub17]

That's almost a guarantee from what I'm hearing.

Nice. Might as well switch OKC-LAX to E75 too, in that case. Or at least increase OKC-LAX frequency back up to 3x/day.

[rayhurst]

Nice. Might as well switch OKC-LAX to E75 too, in that case. Or at least increase OKC-LAX frequency back up to 3x/day.

That might be an option the future, but if I'm not mistaken, all of AA's e175's will (at least initially) only be flown to/from ORD

[venture]

That might be an option the future, but if I'm not mistaken, all of AA's e175's will (at least initially) only be flown to/from ORD

At least the ones flown by PMAA (pre-merger). The ones operated by PMUS are naturally going to be flying from the existing hubs on that side.

[venture]

Southwest was given temporary authority today to operate MCI-DCA on an Air 21 slot being returned by Republic, which operated it for Froniter. Doesn't mean Southwest will get to keep it, but it would open up a slot pair from the ones they are bidding on that would have likely gone to operate a flight into MCI. Still too unclear to figure out how it will impact our chances here.

[venture]

American Airlines expects to add flights from Charlotte | CharlotteObserver.com

“For you in Charlotte, there’s not a lot you should expect in terms of changes other than I know we’re looking at some cities American serves but US Airways did not,” American President Scott Kirby said Tuesday.The airline is examining whether it’s feasible to add new flights from Charlotte to small and midsize cities in the Midwest. That would add “some new dots on the map from Charlotte,” Kirby said, with once- or twice-daily flights.
The airline didn’t give any examples of which new cities it could start serving from Charlotte. But midsize cities in the Midwest that are served by American but not US Airways include Tulsa, Okla; Toledo, Ohio; and Madison, Wis.

Read more here: American Airlines expects to add flights from Charlotte | CharlotteObserver.com

My opinion we'll start to see some news out of AA on the connecting the dots once the DCA slots have been sold off and those aircraft are freed up. So I'm thinking like mid-summer to possibly see some new routes start up.

[s00nr1]

Anything that keeps me out of Hartsfield going east would be much appreciated.

[OUman]

^Hartsfield-Jackson's one of my favourite airports but as they say, to each his own. Then again I am an aviation enthusiast so I guess I'm one of those few who likes large hubs (save for Paris Charles-de-Gaulle (CDG) ).

[venture]

Spoke to an AA employee in another city and they've been assigned rights on their network/res system to handle flights from a US Airways Express operator. This airline is one who is losing a lot of flying out of DCA with the slot divestiture and will likely be one to pick up a bunch of flying out of CLT. Not sure if the OKC employees got the same, but a good indicator that things are moving forward and we could hear something very soon on which cities will get connected into CLT first.

In other news today, JetBlue confirmed they won 12 slots at DCA - which backs up the rumor that was going around. Waiting to hear from WN on if they got the bulk of 28.

[catch22]

I'll ask around see what the AA people have heard. Regardless I bet we'll see CLT announced this year. It's a gaping hole in the combined network for AA.

[venture]

Southwest has secured 27 pairs from DCA.

[venture]

United's Cleveland hub will be getting shut down this summer. Another one bites...well you know.

United Airlines will pull its hub from Cleveland

Not sure how this will impact the local flight to CLE which is there for the oil and gas folks, but my guess it dies too.

Someone posted the letter from Smisek to the employees...

From: JeffSmisekSent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 4:39:31 PM (UTC-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)
Subject: United to Reduce Flying from Cleveland


Dear Cleveland co-worker:


I want to let you know that we have made the difficult decision to substantially reduce our flying from Cleveland. We will make this reduction in stages beginning in April.


I wanted you to know this information before the press found out, but unfortunately they found out earlier than we planned. I apologize for this getting in the press before we were able to tell you directly.


Our hub in Cleveland hasn’t been profitable for over a decade, and has generated tens of millions of dollars of annual losses in recent years. We simply cannot continue to bear these losses.


No city has been more supportive of its hub carrier, and no group of employees has been more dedicated to providing great service, but the demand for hub-level connecting flying through Cleveland simply isn’t there. Ultimately, we can’t create demand, but we do have a responsibility to react to it. We must make the right business decisions, even when those decisions are painful, so we can continue to compete effectively and invest appropriately in our business.


While our decision to reduce our flying was driven by our continued losses in Cleveland, the timing of the flight reductions has been accelerated by industry-wide effects of new federal regulations that impact us and our regional partner flying. Those new regulations have caused mainline airlines to hire regional pilots, while simultaneously significantly reducing the pool of new pilots from which regional carriers themselves can hire. Although this is an industry issue, it directly affects us and requires us to reduce our regional partner flying, as several of our regional partners are beginning to have difficulty flying their schedules due to reduced new pilot availability. We need to reduce that flying in our most unprofitable markets, which unfortunately are out of Cleveland.


As a result, we will be reducing our average daily departures from Cleveland by around 60%. We expect to be able to keep almost all of our mainline departures (reducing only one of our 26 peak day mainline departures), but will need to reduce our regional departures from Cleveland by over 70%. Together, this will reduce our capacity (available seat miles) out of Cleveland by around 36%. We will make these reductions in roughly one-third increments in each of early April, May and June.


When the schedule reductions are fully implemented in June, we plan to offer 72 peak-day flights from Cleveland, and serve 20 destinations from Cleveland on a non-stop basis, including to all our hubs, and to key business markets like LGA, DCA and BOS. We will also serve from Cleveland on a non-stop basis key leisure markets, like FLL, MCO, TPA and RSW. Importantly, our new schedule out of Cleveland will cover 58% of the current Cleveland-originating domestic passenger demand on a non-stop basis, and will permit Cleveland residents to fly to almost every one of the destinations they fly to today, by connecting over one or more of our other hubs.


We expect to be able to keep our pilot and flight attendant bases in Cleveland, because we anticipate being able to keep substantially all of our mainline departures from Cleveland. We also expect to be able to keep all of our current technical operations in Cleveland, because we anticipate having the opportunity to work on the mainline aircraft. However, since we handle our regional partners’ flying above and below the wing in Cleveland, we will be forced to reduce staffing in airport operations and in catering because of the significant reduction in regional partner flying. We currently expect a reduction in force affecting up to 430 airport operations positions and approximately 40 catering personnel in Cleveland. Those reductions in force will likely begin in June. Each employee will be receiving detailed information relating to these reductions in the coming weeks. Affected airport operations employees may have system displacement options or other opportunities to maintain employment with United, and we will work with the IAM leadership to explore other programs that may mitigate the impact of these reductions on IAM-represented airport employees.


While we cannot change the outcome, we will take every action we can to implement these reductions in a manner that upholds our culture. Throughout this difficult process, we are committed to treating our people with the same level of openness, dignity and respect that our Cleveland co-workers have shown our customers and each other over the years. Our HR team is working hard to support you, and will be providing you with answers and assistance over the coming weeks and months.


I regret that we will be forced to reduce staffing in Cleveland, but we have no choice, given the level of continued losses we have suffered in Cleveland, the pressure that the new federal regulations have placed on our regional partners, and our reduction in regional flying. I know that these changes will be difficult for many of you, and this outcome is not what any of us wanted.




Sincerely,


Jeff

[catch22]

Sad.

[catch22]

OKC will lose it's flight.

[venture]

Well that answers that. Sad for the UA folks and for CLE. The trend continues.

PHX you are on notice.

[bradh]

I'd be shocked if the new American axes PHX's hub, that's a huge market and great airport.

[OUman]

^Only problem is, it's now sitting rather uncomfortably between LAX and DFW. Both of which are more important than PHX. One thing PHX does have on its side is the large percentage of origin-and-destination traffic, which is important to a hub's continued success. But on the other hand, if AA decides LAX and DFW are plenty good enough for its western operations without PHX, then it might be in trouble. If an airline doesn't need a certain hub, that means a lot of money saved in terms of gate leasing charges, landing charges, etc etc, and those planes can be used to make more money at "stronger" hubs. It's kind of like Delta's hubs in Memphis or Cincinnati-if a hub is basically redundant or is shelling too much money, it's not going to last long, especially these days. One thing for certain though is the impact to Phoenix will be much larger than in Cleveland in terms of jobs and economy if PHX does get dropped, so I hope for Phoenix's sake it will not become the next St. Louis. Not that I'm belittling the impact to Cleveland but you get what I mean...

[ljbab728]

United's Cleveland hub will be getting shut down this summer. Another one bites...well you know.

United Airlines will pull its hub from Cleveland

Not sure how this will impact the local flight to CLE which is there for the oil and gas folks, but my guess it dies too.

Someone posted the letter from Smisek to the employees...

This really doesn't surprise me given United's major hubs in Chicago and Newark.

[venture]

This really doesn't surprise me given United's major hubs in Chicago and Newark.

It wasn't unexpected at all in the industry.

[ljbab728]

Which, of course, is why those who think OKC might have a chance to become a hub are merely dreamers.

[catch22]

It was expected, but not this soon.

I personally talked to the person in charge of the scheduling and revenue department recently, and he told me they were trying very hard to make Cleveland work into the new United. Both in a revenue and profit way, and in a network and passenger flow point of view. The guy in charge of that department is an old Continental guy, so this isn't a "United gutting Continental" move. He knows the Cleveland market very well and I trust this was a good decision for the long term at United.

[venture]

It was expected, but not this soon.

I personally talked to the person in charge of the scheduling and revenue department recently, and he told me they were trying very hard to make Cleveland work into the new United. Both in a revenue and profit way, and in a network and passenger flow point of view. The guy in charge of that department is an old Continental guy, so this isn't a "United gutting Continental" move. He knows the Cleveland market very well and I trust this was a good decision for the long term at United.

From what I'm reading...it seems like it will be mostly mainline service there now to most of the 20 remaining markets. So that really isn't bad at all. It's better than what happened to say...MEM...or what American did to the TWA hub at STL.

[ljbab728]

Many people also forget that MCI used to be a hub. The last time I was at MCI was quite a few years ago doing a Braniff connection.

[catch22]

Yes, and mostly all of the aircraft that fill the express routings will be retired. Will be a reduction of around 35-40 50-seat jets.

[venture]

Yes, and mostly all of the aircraft that fill the express routings will be retired. Will be a reduction of around 35-40 50-seat jets.

Amazing how jet fuel killed off the aircraft that caused such a massive boom in service to smaller communities. People wanted jets instead of "unducted fans" because propellers are scary. Result is going to be a lot of routes with no service anymore and a ton of 50-seat RJs in the southwest.

[catch22]

^

It certainly shows how unprofitable those jets are, that the company is not even looking at trying to find any other markets to use those aircraft on. They are simply going to drop around 40 lines of flying (potential of around 220 flights a day) almost overnight (over 3 months -- overnight in the business world)