Preftakes Block

[ljbab728]

If historic preservation isn't key to their plans then things AREN'T going to be done right. It's that simple.

Spartan, does that mean you have reason to think that historic preservation isn't being considered?

[Pete]

I just noticed that Pizza Town (#2 in the article above) is for sale for $950,000.

That's exactly what Preftakes paid for similar-sized buildings on that block over six years ago.

Wonder why Nick hasn't jumped on this?

[Spartan]

Spartan, does that mean you have reason to think that historic preservation isn't being considered?

I have reason to think the Carpenter Square building and others are coming down. That's continued historic destruction, is it not?

[Urbanized]

Saw a transient leave his shopping cart outside, push aside the plywood blocking the front entry at Pizza Town, slip inside and replace the plywood from the inside the other day, just two doors down from 420 W. Main. Perhaps Pizza Town will burn down soon and save everyone the effort of figuring out what to do with it.

[Rover]

I have reason to think the Carpenter Square building and others are coming down. That's continued historic destruction, is it not?

Suspicion or reason?

[UnFrSaKn]

Pizza Town is next door to Coney Island, one of the most unique and colorful "mom and pop" restaurants downtown. I do not want to see anything burn down because it could take the valuable properties with it.

[Pete]

It's pretty incredible that the City has it's main offices two doors down from Pizza Town and the rest of this block, which has become a nearly empty shambles.

I've got to believe there is a big plan in the works but they need to get on it.

[Jeepnokc]

Saw a transient leave his shopping cart outside, push aside the plywood blocking the front entry at Pizza Town, slip inside and replace the plywood from the inside the other day, just two doors down from 420 W. Main. Perhaps Pizza Town will burn down soon and save everyone the effort of figuring out what to do with it.

That is Al. PizzaTown has two sets of doors and he sleeps between the two. He is not actually inside the interior of the building (ie...not inside the 2nd set of doors) but in the foyer. He gets his coffee from Coney Island in the morning and then sits outside Lunchbox in the sun to read the paper and drink his coffee.

[UnFrSaKn]

Oh that man. See the Preftakes block photos to see who he is talking about.

I badly want to see the Coney Island building renovated like The Marion. Just imagine the arched windows restored and the west side built out like the Braniff Building.

[Pete]

^

Coney Island could sell to a developer who could finish out the top two floors then lease the ground floor back to them.

[UnFrSaKn]

I've spent plenty of time there for lunch with Steve and it's one of his favorite places. His kids like to watch the owner and his son play chess when orders slow down. According to the owner's son, who is the only one who has attempted to see what is in the top floors with only a flashlight, his father has no interest at all what's up there. He is just happy that the City finally finished Project 180 and his customers can get food. It was close to putting them out of business.

[UnFrSaKn]

Coney Island Hot Dogs (February 19 2012) - a set on Flickr

[hoya]

I think the Coney Island building is owned by the old guy who runs it. I don't think he's gonna be renovating the building anytime soon.

[Spartan]

Suspicion or reason?

What an absurd post. This is typical of the Rover belittling act. I am responding to both suspicions and reason within this thread itself, but you don't read that, you just zero right in on my post and badger me with the most epically pointless post ever.

Are you debating that there are development plans perhaps for this block? Because earlier in this thread you were attacking people for complaining about the current condition because there might be development plans after all. Those are conflicting thought patterns.

I am concerned by the emergence of two trends within the downtown design discussion: 1, we are now tearing down LANDMARKS (Stage Center, India Temple, KerMac, Hale Photo Bldg, Film Row Bldg, and on and on, not to mention less significant structures) at an astonishing rate. 2, anytime someone has credible (especially) concerns with downtown development, the response from a reliable corps of posters who always defend business interests is to belittle, then say too late, then to rub it in. It plays out in every thread.

This, along with the underwhelming "mystery tower" phenomenon, has become the hallmark of OKC Talk that continuously drives this forum like a machine. A machine doesn't care how clear and cogent its logic is.

[Plutonic Panda]

This is extremely frustrating. What in the world is he doing then? Sitting on land like this should be unacceptable. There were viable businesses in this block that he kicked out and for what? It's ridiculous that this is block is now like this.

But we don't know if he is just sitting on it man. He could be planning something big, we just don't know. I'd say just chill and wait another 1-3 years and just forget this block and look to all the other awesome development taking place; if something isn't then done about this block in 3 year, then raise hell.

[Snowman]

My guess is Devon leased space combined with spec office plus hotel and/or housing. I think Devon needs room to expand/contract outside of their own building based on commodity prices and other factors, room for partners and suppliers close by.

Considering the current investor climate, they can't build it themselves or they will risk the perception that they planned poorly for growth when building their headquarters OR that they are being extravagant (in a market that investors are indifferent about). Therefore, it makes sense for them to lease space. And with a tenant like that, it makes sense for a developer to build.

Since it sounds like Devon is out of parking already, I would not be shocked to see the lots labeled 5, 6, 7, 8 & 10 be the tower and 11 through 15 wind up a parking garage with retail/restarants at ground level

[ljbab728]

I am concerned by the emergence of two trends within the downtown design discussion: 1, we are now tearing down LANDMARKS (Stage Center, India Temple, KerMac, Hale Photo Bldg, Film Row Bldg, and on and on, not to mention less significant structures) at an astonishing rate.

Spartan, there are certainly instances of buildings being razed, but it's hardly an "astonishing rate". I know that is contrary to your belief that it mirrors the 70's but it doesn't.

[bchris02]

we have more demand than supply, ...so why aren't we building?

Because in OKC development, no matter what it is, investors are afraid of risk. They build the absolute bare minimum, like we are seeing with the Stage Center Tower, and refuse to think ahead and have vision. This goes for all aspects of development, from size down to style, from downtown to I-35 and Covell. Then OKC ends up losing out on a corporate relocation because there isn't enough Class-A office space. Why do you think investors in the OKC area are so afraid of taking risks?

[OKVision4U]

Because in OKC development, no matter what it is, investors are afraid of risk. They build the absolute bare minimum, like we are seeing with the Stage Center Tower, and refuse to think ahead and have vision. This goes for all aspects of development, from size down to style, from downtown to I-35 and Covell. Then OKC ends up losing out on a corporate relocation because there isn't enough Class-A office space. Why do you think investors in the OKC area are so afraid of taking risks?

bchris02, It is fueled by a history of failures ( The Dust Bowl / The Great Depression / Oil Busts of 83'), mixed with snake-bit lending institutions ( Penn Square / 08'), and the "wait and see" approach. ..by the time this plays out, they have missed the true opportunity ( on the positive curve of trends).

This is why MAPS was so successful. It doesn't get "caught up / held-up / slowed down" by our own undoing. We make a list of large projects / we fund it / we build it.

The real estate investment community outside of the Oklahoma borders, build their portfolio in the same way. They have 100% financing, they build the next best idea, and they break ground. The consumers know this, and they sign up for it. They want to be where the "Hot place to be is", and trendy sells. ex. Deep Duece. / Aloft / 21c Museum.

Continuing to do the Okie standard, will hold us back.

The commercial lending institutions should be handing out money to those that want to build in DT ( anything under $1B), this IS the time they make money too. They should be lining up, the A&D firms should be slammed w/ projects & busting at the seams so they have to hire more, the large GC's should be mobilizing for their next project, the marketing groups should be promoting it big time. OKC we have this time, don't let it pass by ....again.

[Spartan]

Spartan, there are certainly instances of buildings being razed, but it's hardly an "astonishing rate". I know that is contrary to your belief that it mirrors the 70's but it doesn't.

We have so many more buildings on the chopping block, already lost or about to be lost. Look at the Film Exchange Bldg, being razed just because an out of town consultant from SF wants it out of their mcmasterplan.

[Bellaboo]

Since it sounds like Devon is out of parking already, I would not be shocked to see the lots labeled 5, 6, 7, 8 & 10 be the tower and 11 through 15 wind up a parking garage with retail/restarants at ground level

The rumor has it that One North Hudson (15), is going to end up being housing. Possibly starting this year.

[bchris02]

We have so many more buildings on the chopping block, already lost or about to be lost. Look at the Film Exchange Bldg, being razed just because an out of town consultant from SF wants it out of their mcmasterplan.

It's sad, especially when you look at what Tulsa has planned for their park and how far ahead it is of ours. I am alright with razing certain historic buildings if it is to be replaced with something special, but not the minimalist crap so often pushed here.

[PhiAlpha]

It's sad, especially when you look at what Tulsa has planned for their park and how far ahead it is of ours. I am alright with razing certain historic buildings if it is to be replaced with something special, but not the minimalist crap so often pushed here.

I'm not sure how you can look at the two conceptual drawings of OKC and tulsa's parks and determine that Tulsa's is "far ahead of ours." They both look about the same at this point.

[Rover]

What an absurd post. This is typical of the Rover belittling act. I am responding to both suspicions and reason within this thread itself, but you don't read that, you just zero right in on my post and badger me with the most epically pointless post ever.

Are you debating that there are development plans perhaps for this block? Because earlier in this thread you were attacking people for complaining about the current condition because there might be development plans after all. Those are conflicting thought patterns.

I am concerned by the emergence of two trends within the downtown design discussion: 1, we are now tearing down LANDMARKS (Stage Center, India Temple, KerMac, Hale Photo Bldg, Film Row Bldg, and on and on, not to mention less significant structures) at an astonishing rate. 2, anytime someone has credible (especially) concerns with downtown development, the response from a reliable corps of posters who always defend business interests is to belittle, then say too late, then to rub it in. It plays out in every thread.

This, along with the underwhelming "mystery tower" phenomenon, has become the hallmark of OKC Talk that continuously drives this forum like a machine. A machine doesn't care how clear and cogent its logic is.

Wow. What an overreaction. I was merely asking if you were saying things because you had specific knowledge of something, or just was suspecting things. Didn't mean to trip your trigger and have you explode. Ease up man.

I am disgusted with the current condition and the deterioration that is happening. But I don't happen to be jumping off the ledge just yet. People are assuming so much and then getting angry at what they THINK might or might not happen.

[Spartan]

Sorry Rover, it was an overreaction, but I am very serious about this historic preservation issue and I am throwing all of my weight behind it because obviously nobody else will. OKC has a demolition addiction. I am tired of two steps forward, one step backward, all the time.

I'm not sure how you can look at the two conceptual drawings of OKC and tulsa's parks and determine that Tulsa's is "far ahead of ours." They both look about the same at this point.

Not at all, you should see Steve Lackmeyer's recent blog post on the matter.