Car Sharing in OKC, convincing a car addicted population

[BBatesokc]

Just looked over CarTime in detail - when it was pointed out above they also offer trucks!

However, this only assured me I will not participate in their service......

If I read it correctly (and please do not hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong - not that that's ever really an issue on this forum);

1.) You can't tell what cars are actually available unless or until you sign up.

2.) Signing up means paying a $25 application fee for a service you may decide never to use.

3.) You also have to pay a monthly fee of at least $5/month just for the privilege of maybe using their service in the future

4.) Included mileage is limited.


Yeah, no thanks.

[shawnw]

Not saying it's the best for everyone, but they do have a large capital investment, so I understand the need for the potential user to have some skin the game.

[BBatesokc]

Not saying it's the best for everyone, but they do have a large capital investment, so I understand the need for the potential user to have some skin the game.

Why should their capitol investment mean I have to pay fees up front for a service I may never use?

That would be like Cox Cable making me pay to see if I qualify to subscribe to their cable offerings and only after I pay do I find out exactly what channels they are going to offer me.

Virtually very business has 'large capital investment' - why is that the customers concern to the point you have to pay just to consider using a service?

Maybe its just me, but I don't like that business plan in most instances.

[shawnw]

I'm not saying you're wrong, your complaint is totally legit, but you do pay most of your bills in advance whether or not you use those services that month...

[kevinpate]

Only time someone like Budget wants me to pre-pay is to save me money. Further out I know I need a ride, the lower my rate, to a point. I wouldn't be happy if Budget wanted me to pay a monthly fee just in case I wanted to rent a car at some point.

There are similar situations on play whether you play or not, i.e. gym contracts, tanning contracts, pre-paid legal, etc.
I don't tend to sign up with them folk either.

[shawnw]

Good points all. And points taken.

[BBatesokc]

I'm not saying you're wrong, your complaint is totally legit, but you do pay most of your bills in advance whether or not you use those services that month...

True. If I don't watch my cable, I still have to pay. The difference being, I didn't have to pay up front just for the 'privilege' of seeing what channel Cox was going to offer me.

Also, paying $25 just to see if you can be their customer is a bit excessive if you think you literally may only use their service once or twice a year. Not to mention at least $5 month on top of that.

At the very least I should be able to see exactly what vehicles they are offering at their locations before paying anything. I'm not gonna pay $25 plus $5/month to find out that even though their site shows trucks available, they don't actually have any in Oklahoma City or near where I'd want to get one.

[TimeCarOKC]

As I have mentioned multiple times, this service is not to compete with traditional car rental companies. It allows for another option. The more access to transportation a city has, the better the infrastructure. Car sharing is definitely not for everyone, but the population in need of car sharing is growing. Car sharing has not only allowed better access, but has allowed for many cities to save money on road construction. The more vehicles you have on the roads causes them to ware down faster. Considering most commutes are vehicles with only one passenger. It is obvious in Oklahoma, we have a large population of vehicles. We are also in the heart of the US, so our highways are populated with vehicles whose final destination is not Oklahoma.

The following are some facts that might make one think twice about owning multiple vehicles:
The average owned vehicle is only used for one hour each day.
The average owned vehicle costs about $715 per month.
The average life span of a vehicle is 8 years, so that would cost $715 per month = $8580 average per year = around $65,000 per lifespan.

All facts found at: Collaborative Fund, Consumer Reports Online

Application fees are needed for this program because we are placing our members under our insurance. In order to be a member, you must have a clean driving record. We incur costs everytime someone signs up. That is a one time fee.

[TimeCarOKC]

True. If I don't watch my cable, I still have to pay. The difference being, I didn't have to pay up front just for the 'privilege' of seeing what channel Cox was going to offer me.

Also, paying $25 just to see if you can be their customer is a bit excessive if you think you literally may only use their service once or twice a year. Not to mention at least $5 month on top of that.

At the very least I should be able to see exactly what vehicles they are offering at their locations before paying anything. I'm not gonna pay $25 plus $5/month to find out that even though their site shows trucks available, they don't actually have any in Oklahoma City or near where I'd want to get one.

There is a truck available on the OCU campus and a truck available at the Crowne Plaza hotel. Before you sign up, you can always get this information by calling 855-4TIMECAR.

[BBatesokc]

There is a truck available on the OCU campus and a truck available at the Crowne Plaza hotel. Before you sign up, you can always get this information by calling 855-4TIMECAR.

Yeah, still not gonna pay $25 to apply and $5/month because I might use the service a couple of times a year. Cheaper for me to just rent from Home Depot when I need a truck or get at $14 trailer from Uhaul and hook up to my SUV.

As I have mentioned multiple times, this service is not to compete with traditional car rental companies.

Actually, I only see where you've mentioned it ONE OTHER TIME in this thread.

I get you don't want to compete with traditional car rental companies - but that simply means your business model counting on a subset of a subset (learned that from Shark Tank!)

That's fine, that you pass along the fee to check a person's driving history, but why make them pay it up front? Why not charge them when they want to be charged - prior to a rental.

If I want to rent today, then by all means charge me.

But, what if I have no idea when I want to rent, but I'd like to see what actual cars you have and where - why should I have to pay to see this basic information?

Okay, so I can call. But why make it a hassle for a potential customer?

I don't agree with the numbers you're spewing from Consumer Reports as you are totally ignoring the fact I'm going to sell my car in a couple of years and either make money or recoup most of my money.

I've got no beef with this business, I just don't get it for the typical Oklahoman and I personally see no interest in participating. No biggie. I guess it works for some people.

[HangryHippo]

Yeah, still not gonna pay $25 to apply and $5/month because I might use the service a couple of times a year. Cheaper for me to just rent from Home Depot when I need a truck or get at $14 trailer from Uhaul and hook up to my SUV.



Actually, I only see where you've mentioned it ONE OTHER TIME in this thread.

I get you don't want to compete with traditional car rental companies - but that simply means your business model counting on a subset of a subset (learned that from Shark Tank!)

That's fine, that you pass along the fee to check a person's driving history, but why make them pay it up front? Why not charge them when they want to be charged - prior to a rental.

If I want to rent today, then by all means charge me.

But, what if I have no idea when I want to rent, but I'd like to see what actual cars you have and where - why should I have to pay to see this basic information?

Okay, so I can call. But why make it a hassle for a potential customer?

I don't agree with the numbers you're spewing from Consumer Reports as you are totally ignoring the fact I'm going to sell my car in a couple of years and either make money or recoup most of my money.

I've got no beef with this business, I just don't get it for the typical Oklahoman and I personally see no interest in participating. No biggie. I guess it works for some people.

How is calling any more of a hassle then typing in a search to check availability?

[BBatesokc]

How is calling any more of a hassle then typing in a search to check availability?

Yeah, websites should probably just delete all their content and in it's place put....


"Since its just as easy to call and ask, we've replaced our content with our telephone number"


Not to mention, when you click on the locations and cars tabs its doesn't ever say "We're not gonna show you the cars we actually have and where they are located, if you really wanna know, call us."

[TimeCarOKC]

Yeah, still not gonna pay $25 to apply and $5/month because I might use the service a couple of times a year. Cheaper for me to just rent from Home Depot when I need a truck or get at $14 trailer from Uhaul and hook up to my SUV.



Actually, I only see where you've mentioned it ONE OTHER TIME in this thread.

I get you don't want to compete with traditional car rental companies - but that simply means your business model counting on a subset of a subset (learned that from Shark Tank!)

That's fine, that you pass along the fee to check a person's driving history, but why make them pay it up front? Why not charge them when they want to be charged - prior to a rental.

If I want to rent today, then by all means charge me.

But, what if I have no idea when I want to rent, but I'd like to see what actual cars you have and where - why should I have to pay to see this basic information?

Okay, so I can call. But why make it a hassle for a potential customer?

I don't agree with the numbers you're spewing from Consumer Reports as you are totally ignoring the fact I'm going to sell my car in a couple of years and either make money or recoup most of my money.

I've got no beef with this business, I just don't get it for the typical Oklahoman and I personally see no interest in participating. No biggie. I guess it works for some people.

Thank you for all your input. It helps us make our service better. It is obvious you do not need our services, neither does the majority of Oklahoma's population. That being said, we are trying to help get more information out to a larger range of citizens. Who knows, maybe one day you will actually find a good reason to use our service. I plan on posting more information about a sharing ecomony in this forum.

[BBatesokc]

Sid, you really think I don't get the concept, or are you just being snarky. (that's a rhetorical question - hence, no question mark)

I get the concept, I just don't see it applying to many people in the OKC metro and I'm free to explain why - which I did. Possibly hoping someone could shed some light I was missing to convince me otherwise (didn't happen - not even close).

You do get the concept of discretionary income and the fact that people can spend it as they find fits their lifestyle best and owning my own car does just that - as it does for most Oklahoman's. You save money by not owning a car and that's great. I personally find I save money and actually make money by owning a car. I actually couldn't function without one.

Could my wife function without a car (as in get to work and the store)? Yes. Would she find it a total inconvenience and not one worth not owning a car that literally costs her very little to own/operate. Yes again.

As for a 'subset of a subset' - Not really reality TV so much as economics 101.

Rent cars appeal to subset of the population (those needing to rent a car). TimeCar and the like only appeal to a subset of the previously mentioned subset - Can you (as you like to put it) grasp that?

[HangryHippo]

Yeah, websites should probably just delete all their content and in it's place put....


"Since its just as easy to call and ask, we've replaced our content with our telephone number"


Not to mention, when you click on the locations and cars tabs its doesn't ever say "We're not gonna show you the cars we actually have and where they are located, if you really wanna know, call us."

Why do you have to be a condescending ass? I simply asked a question. No reason for you to get defensive when someone questions something you've asserted as fact.

I guess dialing 10 numbers and then listening for an answer really is that much harder than finding a website and going through a search and all that entails.

[BBatesokc]

Why do you have to be a condescending ass? I simply asked a question. No reason for you to get defensive when someone questions something you've asserted as fact.

I guess dialing 10 numbers and then listening for an answer really is that much harder than finding a website and going through a search and all that entails.

Actually I provided a pretty clear example - one most people could see and go "oh yeah, putting the content on the website would be easier" (most people).

Would it have been better if I took 5 paragraphs to say the same thing?

I think most people would agree that it makes more sense to put the readily available information on the website (because obviously you're already there) then to say, "call us."


Lets take a restaurant for example and I want to know when they are open:

To get their phone number I'm going to "type in a search" or go straight to their website.

Regardless, now I'm at their website.

You're trying to convince me that its just a convenient for me to now dial their number and wait to speak to someone as it would be if they simply put their hours on the website to begin with?

[MadMonk]

I'd would need a car sitting outside my home in far NW OKC by 6:30am every weekday and one sitting outside my workplace in west OKC after 5:00 as well. The commute is about 24 miles each way, so say 50 miles a day at $1/mile comes to at least $250/week + membership fees = $1,000+/month.

I don't think I'm a good candidate.

[TimeCarOKC]

Here is Time Car's orientation video that goes out to each new member.

[BBatesokc]

TimeCar's customers are most absolutely a subset of a subset.

You have the population (you with me so far). Then you have a portion of that population that say either recently decided to get rid of their car, previously used mass transit or rented from places like Avis (or a combination). A portion of that subset will find the services of TimeCar to their liking. Tada! Actually, you could further break TimeCar's customers down and they could become subsets, of subsets, of subsets, of subsets....... (you get the picture) I could play your favorite card and do the "I made/make my living in (insert whatever - I'll go with marketing since that was my profession for many years and still is in many respects), so I must know more than you!"

Which is fine. Many successful companies target a very tiny percentage of the buying public.

This is a discussion board, so, I was discussing.

I didn't 'reframe' anything. The discussion was the service and I made my argument why the service wouldn't work for me and probably many others. You pointed out where it works for you and your lifestyle. That doesn't make either of us 'right' or 'wrong.'

Should every thread come with a disclaimer.... "If this doesn't directly apply to you then please do not respond."

Regardless of the real or perceived need, part of my issue was with the general way the business was being presented to the public. I really don't care what the product or service is ..... I was pointing out that regardless it doesn't make sense to charge people before they can even make an informed decision if the service is right for them (I even used a completely unrelated service [Cox Cable] as an example). I may not need a mini cooper to go back and forth to (whatever), but I might like to be able to rent a truck for an hour or two one or more times a month. Why not put all the information online - like do you really have trucks in Oklahoma City and where are they?

The debate was definitely revolving around other services like Avis and Budget because others were comparing TimeCar to them and their prices.

Just because i don't agree with a monthly membership for a service such as this doesn't in any way infer I don't 'get the concept of a monthly membership.' (you do get that concept, right?)

I think we can both agree we are being asses at this point, but it passes the time until something else distracts me.

[MadMonk]

Just out of curiosity, it seems like the these cars would be easy targets for theft, with the keys left in the car. Is there much of that in the more higher-usage areas or are the cars disabled without the membership card (or something like that)?

[TimeCarOKC]

Just out of curiosity, it seems like the these cars would be easy targets for theft, with the keys left in the car. Is there much of that in the more higher-usage areas or are the cars disabled without the membership card (or something like that)?

Thanks for the question -

Upon your membership you are given a smart card that has a unique chip ID specifically for you. Once you make a reservation, it is sent through SMS to the vehicles onboard computer letting it know the members unique identifier. The cars ignition is disabled until you log into the vehicle. So essentially the vehicle will not start unless the ID's match.

If a person saw the keys and was to break the window in an attempt to steal the car, it wouldn't start. This has only happened once at our OCU campus location. Let it also be noted that the fine OCU police depart was dispatched at the time of break-in and an arrest was made!



-bsj

[MadMonk]

Thanks for the info. For what it's worth, although I don't feel it would be a good fit for me, I can see how this would work well for some. I hope TimeCar does well here.

[TimeCarOKC]

Regardless of the real or perceived need, part of my issue was with the general way the business was being presented to the public. I really don't care what the product or service is ..... I was pointing out that regardless it doesn't make sense to charge people before they can even make an informed decision if the service is right for them (I even used a completely unrelated service [Cox Cable] as an example). I may not need a mini cooper to go back and forth to (whatever), but I might like to be able to rent a truck for an hour or two one or more times a month. Why not put all the information online - like do you really have trucks in Oklahoma City and where are they?

Mr. Bates, thank you for comments. Again, we totally understand this concept/service is not for you or your friends.

First I'd like to point out that it is industry standard to charge an application fee and a membership fee. Let me go in dept exactly what these fees go towards. The $25 application fee helps TimeCar offset our cost of running a drivers record check. Because we do not require our members to have an existing insurance policy, we place them on our insurance without additional cost. Meaning, we are not going to pressure sell you $7-15 a day for insurance like car rental companies do. In order to place a member on our insurance, we are required to run this drivers record check. Back to the application fee...

In fact, TimeCar loses money by only charging $25 for the application fee because the actual cost to run this record check is $28.50. So basically we are -$3.50 (not including administrative fees) right off the bat. Usually a person is not going to apply for a TimeCar membership if they only plan to use it 2-3 times a year. In fact, our average member uses a vehicle 2-3 times a week! And as a response to your comment - the majority of our members only sign up if they know they will use the service. We are as transparent as a company gets. No hidden fees, etc. Cox Cable is not a fair comparison, two totally different industries. We are in the transportation industry. Again, we provide a service that is only available to our members and may not be for everyone.

OK, now lets talk about membership fees. TimeCar and all other car sharing companies are membership based. Most car sharing companies charge $50 or more a year. TimeCar memberships are $5/monthly or you can pay for 10 months, get 2 free ($50yr). We offer the low monthly fee option for those that do not want to adjust their budgets for a month. This is a great option for our university markets as sometimes college kids have little room in their budgets. Only a few car sharing companies offer the low monthly memberships, but the popularity and success is catching on. The membership fees essentially go into a pool amongst the members to offset our cost of fuel and insurance. It is important to know that as a member of TimeCar, insurance, maintenance, gas, parking and all other vehicle ownership fees are included in your membership.

So let me address what seems like your biggest concern. Our website list the types of vehicles we offer our members. It would be difficult to display (accurately) which vehicles are at which locations because of certain situations. I will go into that in a second. As a member, when you log into your account you can see what types of vehicles are at which locations. We periodically move certain vehicles for members upon requests. In fact, I had a request for the Nissan Frontier truck to be at OCU this week. We also look at the demographics of our locations. For instance, our locations in West Texas have a need for high clearance vehicles -- our Deep Deuce location, because of families, use Sedans -- college market prefers smaller coupes/hatches. Trust me, we do our homework on what works and the needs of our members. However, there is always that one exception and we are always willing to accommodate. OK, back to why it is difficult to display vehicles real time position. We are a small local company with a staff of 3. We do not operate on a large budget. To own the software to properly display these vehicles for real time positioning on the front end of our website is very expensive. In fact, the only car sharing companies that are doing it are backed by their large car rental operations or manufacturers. (i.e. Zipcar-Avis, Car2Go-Daimler) Industry wide, only a few offer real time positioning. Again, it's the large multi-million dollar companies that can afford to do this.

Why can we offer real time positioning when someone logs into their account and not when a non-member looks at the website....? Simple, when a member logs into their account, they are redirected to our software providers site - the leader in car sharing software. This section we pay licensing fees. With a staff of 3, we are constantly busy with new memberships, maintenance of the vehicles, etc. One day there may be a Mazda 3 sitting in your near by lot, the next day a Mini Cooper because it needed to go into service. We get to know our members and what they like and prefer to drive so we do our best.

Mr Bates, we are doing our best to better our community that we (and you) live in by offering an alternative source of transportation to those that choose. Car sharing is just one choice among others in this city.... bike share, walking, transit, uber, taxi, etc. We are not here ridicule those who choose to own a vehicle and we hope for the same. We are a "subset" of many alternative options in our city. Again, thank you for your comments and I hope I was able to explain TimeCar and the industry better. Please feel free to reach out to me personally if you have any questions or concerns. Perhaps coffee at a local establishment?


bsj

[TimeCarOKC]

Oh, and to add to the last post... We are hoping to offer this real time positioning feature sometime in the future. I understand its benefits and advantages. Huge THANK YOU to all for your input.

bsj

[ljbab728]

Car sharing is definitely not for everyone, but the population in need of car sharing is growing. Car sharing has not only allowed better access, but has allowed for many cities to save money on road construction.

I understand the theory behind that and don't disagree but you state that this has happened. Do you have any specific evidence about a city that saved money on road construction due to a car sharing service?