2014 Oklahoma Commercial Aviation Discussion

[shawnw]

I love OKC and I dig our airport, but IMO even in 40 years we would not meet these stats. This is very impressive:

"1,800 daily flights carrying over 60 million passengers a year. Almost 60,000 people go to work at DFW each day."

40th anniversary: DFW ready to soar into the future | Airlines and Aviation | Dallas Bus...


This stat is also particularly interesting: "The largest carrier at the time was Braniff Airways, with 152 daily flights"

[OUman]

I just noticed an error in my post, C2, C4 and C6 were actually assigned to DL/DL Connection, C1, C3 and C7 were assigned to Southwest. UA/UA Expess had C8 and C9 (there was no C5; a popular restaurant was there though, I forgot the name). I was looking through my old photos the other day and noticed this.

Yeah, DFW also has space to expand to an eighth N-S runway and if I recall correctly, two additional terminals (it will have to forgo some parking lots for that to happen though).

[BG918]

Yeah, DFW also has space to expand to an eighth N-S runway and if I recall correctly, two additional terminals (it will have to forgo some parking lots for that to happen though).

DFW is also one of the largest metros in the nation, and one of the fastest growing, with a significant O&D market as well as connections via AA. A stronger AA could make DFW one of the largest oneworld hubs allowing for more international and domestic flights, especially since ORD is somewhat restrained in its growth and the Chicago region isn't growing as fast as North Texas. I've seen some growth projections for the DFW metro that put it nearing the 9 million range by 2030 which would be close to what Chicago is at now.

There are major implications for OKC having a mega airport like DFW 200 miles to the south. And not just the airport but other areas such as water (North Texas will be in dire need of it soon), northward exurban growth into our southern counties around Lake Texoma, education (more Texans at OU and OSU), etc.

[Snowman]

I guess not being from Texas I always laugh at it being considered North Texas, no wonder they shifted to branding it as the Metroplex years ago. Is Amarillo Northest Texas?

[catch22]

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/Dec...nplanement.pdf

December stats out, slight increase. December finished up 2013 with a flat-negative year.

Allegiant provided 9 departures and 9 arrivals, for a total of 1,494 seats in/out.

1273 departing passengers, 1191 arriving passengers.

Departing monthly LF, 85%, 80% inbound.

Off to a good start, as suspected form November numbers.

[venture]

Definitely moving in the right direction. Hopefully we are north of 90% for January and it'll be smooth sailing after that. Well, as long as the ancillary revenues are doing well. Would love to see them add more here.

[venture]

American/US Airways have announced changes due to the slot divestiture at DCA and LGA.

Cities losing nonstop service from DCA include: Augusta, Detroit, Fayetteville (NC), Fort Walton Beach, Islip, Jacksonville (NC), Little Rock, Minneapolis, Montreal, Myrtle Beach, Nassau, Omaha, Pensacola, San Diego, Savannah, Tallahassee, and Wilmington (NC). The beyond perimeter slot for SAN is moving to do a 2nd daily to LAX. Fort Myers will go down to seasonal service.

LGA will lose service to Atlanta, Cleveland, and Minneapolis. New service though will be started to Charlottesville (VA), Dayton, Greensboro, Knoxville, Little Rock, Louisville, Norfolk, Richmond, Roanoke, and Wilmington (NC).

Prospect for OKC to DCA pretty much vanished with AA/US having to give up so many slots. The 52 slot pairs will probably get divided up to Southwest and JetBlue each taking 18 pairs. Then the balance of 16 sprinkled around to other high bidders. It is sad that most of these cities are losing service just so these slots can go to another airline so they use them to markets that already have service - especially to cities in Florida.

[HangryHippo]

American/US Airways have announced changes due to the slot divestiture at DCA and LGA.

Cities losing nonstop service from DCA include: Augusta, Detroit, Fayetteville (NC), Fort Walton Beach, Islip, Jacksonville (NC), Little Rock, Minneapolis, Montreal, Myrtle Beach, Nassau, Omaha, Pensacola, San Diego, Savannah, Tallahassee, and Wilmington (NC). The beyond perimeter slot for SAN is moving to do a 2nd daily to LAX. Fort Myers will go down to seasonal service.

LGA will lose service to Atlanta, Cleveland, and Minneapolis. New service though will be started to Charlottesville (VA), Dayton, Greensboro, Knoxville, Little Rock, Louisville, Norfolk, Richmond, Roanoke, and Wilmington (NC).

Prospect for OKC to DCA pretty much vanished with AA/US having to give up so many slots. The 52 slot pairs will probably get divided up to Southwest and JetBlue each taking 18 pairs. Then the balance of 16 sprinkled around to other high bidders. It is sad that most of these cities are losing service just so these slots can go to another airline so they use them to markets that already have service - especially to cities in Florida.

This is my problem with it. What in the hell is the point of the divestitures then? Just so you can have 12 nonstops to Orlando or Ft. Lauderdale? It's just stupid.

Also, what is Little Rock doing that they have service to LGA and we don't? And Wilmington, NC for that matter?

[damonsmuz]

No more nonstop flights from DCA-MSP? I know DCA has many flights to DL hubs, but knocking MSP from that list makes me wonder if MSP is the next on the DL chopping block. Will it become MEM in 2020?

Also, technically AA/US could start non stop service from OKC-DCA, they would just have to give up an already served flight into the airport. Although , is DCA really so important for OKC to have? We already have flights to IAD and BWI. I'd rather get service to a newer region (i.e. CLT, PHL, etc) then service to a region already served by other airlines.

[ljbab728]

No more nonstop flights from DCA-MSP? I know DCA has many flights to DL hubs, but knocking MSP from that list makes me wonder if MSP is the next on the DL chopping block. Will it become MEM in 2020?

The nonstop flight that are being discontinued are on USAirways, not Delta.

[no1cub17]

No more nonstop flights from DCA-MSP? I know DCA has many flights to DL hubs, but knocking MSP from that list makes me wonder if MSP is the next on the DL chopping block. Will it become MEM in 2020?

Also, technically AA/US could start non stop service from OKC-DCA, they would just have to give up an already served flight into the airport. Although , is DCA really so important for OKC to have? We already have flights to IAD and BWI. I'd rather get service to a newer region (i.e. CLT, PHL, etc) then service to a region already served by other airlines.

Not a chance in hell that DL cuts MSP. That is one ridiculously lucrative market and the dictionary definition of fortress hub for DL. So, no. Man I miss flying through there, always meant to pick up a Minnesota North Stars hoodie.

I do agree that I'd rather PMAA add OKC-PHL (or even OKC-JFK) rather than DCA, if nothing else but for the int'l connectivity it would offer.

[damonsmuz]

Oh phew. For some reason I thought I read it was DL. Good catch. and happy to see MSP will stay.

[venture]

This is my problem with it. What in the hell is the point of the divestitures then? Just so you can have 12 nonstops to Orlando or Ft. Lauderdale? It's just stupid.

Also, what is Little Rock doing that they have service to LGA and we don't? And Wilmington, NC for that matter?

It's all in the name of the consumer right? The whole thing is just dumb. I understand free market and all of that, but there is also a reason why we have slots at DCA and LGA that are specifically aimed at small communities. These are key airports into two of the nation's most important markets and the slots shouldn't be wasted on how many people can be crammed into a 737 to Florida.

We should hear this week or next on the slot winners. I think Southwest gets 18 slot pairs, but most of those are going to be used on service to MDW, BNA, and DAL...add'l frequencies to HOU and probably also flights to MCO, FLL, and TPA. All markets that already have existing service.

[catch22]

The small markets once again lose out, and Southwest gets what they want.

[HangryHippo]

The small markets once again lose out, and Southwest gets what they want.

I'm really pretty sick of Southwest.

[catch22]

They've turned into the bully that they fought against when they were the small lovable groovy Texas carrier.

And they've kept the perception of them being the underdog, when in all actuality they are the largest domestic carrier in the country, dominating many markets, and have tremendous pricing power and ability to subsidize low fares where they need to, to squash other carriers.

[venture]

They've turned into the bully that they fought against when they were the small lovable groovy Texas carrier.

And they've kept the perception of them being the underdog, when in all actuality they are the largest domestic carrier in the country, dominating many markets, and have tremendous pricing power and ability to subsidize low fares where they need to, to squash other carriers.

I think they do this for two reasons. 1) Marketing. It keeps people coming back thinking they are getting the best deal and not even taking the time to compare to the others. 2) Keeps employees inline. Ramp, Airport Customer Service, and Reservations are all in contract negotiations right now and have been in some cases over 2 years without a contract. WN is something like 95% union, the highest unionized airline in the country. The minute you start admitting to having the pricing power that they really do, to the employee groups, the minute they are going to refuse to give up in areas of work rules and outsourcing. Wage concessions are probably a nonstarter due to their streak of profitability still ongoing.

The industry is fairly mature overall now with consolidation nearing an end. Hopefully this will open up the door for new entrant startups to come in and start giving us some options again.

[catch22]

^ I don't even really think it was on purpose. They traditionally have had excellent PR, and brand awareness that has kind of stuck with them. Of course they do play that in their favor when they need to.

[venture]

Looks like a.net is starting to fill with the rumor that WN came out very aggressive on the slot bids. The DCA slots were divided into 4 buckets... 14, 14, 12, and 4. Word is that Southwest won the bid on the two 14 pair buckets...giving them 28 (total of 44 slot pairs based on existing slots). The other 12 apparently are going to JetBlue (more DCA-Florida), and the final 4 to Virgin America - though I would have liked to see Sun County get them.

If this does work out as true, it is a pretty big deal. Existing nonstop service right now includes MKE, STL, AUS, HOU, ATL, and RSW. I agree with one of the posters on A.net that those will probably break down to:

MKE- 2 flts, STL - 3, AUS - 1, HOU - 4, ATL - 6, and RSW - 1.

So 27 pairs left to go. DAL I think gets 4, MDW - 6, BNA - 3, MCI - 1, MCO - 2, FLL - 2, TPA - 2, JAX - 2, and MSY - 1. That leaves 5 more. Two ways WN could go then...build up more frequency to the connecting hubs (MDW, HOU, and DAL) or get some point to point markets. If they do the later that very well could bring OKC, OMA, PBI and maybe...maybe...TUL and LIT into the mix for 1 daily flight each. They can't do SAT because they are beyond the perimeter and AUS is also beyond the 1250 mile limit. The current slot for that service is a special beyond perimeter slot.

Of course this is all for nothing if WN doesn't get the 28 slots from the two buckets. Also, it can't be ruled out that WN just won't follow JetBlue and everyone else and just dump the slots on high volume markets to Florida.

[catch22]

Beginning April 1, United to IAD and ORD will receive EMB-170 service. Aircraft will be routed ORD-OKC-IAD and IAD-OKC-ORD. Configured to 64 Y 6 F. The E170 is very comparable to mainline when it comes to passenger comfort and overhead space.

[catch22]

Also this change has been in the computer for a while, just haven't mentioned it.

Cleveland will go to an early morning departure now, and evening arrival. Instead of late morning arrival and late morning departure.

[no1cub17]

Beginning April 1, United to IAD and ORD will receive EMB-170 service. Aircraft will be routed ORD-OKC-IAD and IAD-OKC-ORD. Configured to 64 Y 6 F. The E170 is very comparable to mainline when it comes to passenger comfort and overhead space.

Oh snap - hopefully that means we'll see AA switch to E75s to ORD also!

[venture]

Oh snap - hopefully that means we'll see AA switch to E75s to ORD also!

That's almost a guarantee from what I'm hearing.

[catch22]

It's just one a day. The other three flights are Cr7 and E45. The upgrade to E70 on IAD fueled the ORD change, as that is how the IAD flight has been routed, via ORD-OKC. Just how that line is constructed. Has more to do with IAD than ORD. With military traffic combined with heavy international traffic IAD frequently runs out of cargo space for all of the bags. The 170 has a lot larger cargo bin, and with good overhead space, less carry on bags to be gate checked.

[catch22]

Looks like frontier counter has been moved down to Delta.

Then United will move to the old Frontier counter by the first part of 2015.