Preftakes Block

[bchris02]

OKC is seeing growth and a substantial amount of quality products put on the market in terms of mixed-use development. This signals some amount of demand for quality development.

Full occupancy of Class-A office space is demonstrable demand. The growth of companies in downtown is demonstrable demand. But no amount of demand on paper makes loaning nine digits a sure-fire, conservative investment by a lender. There are, I imagine, several factors in play as to why these major developments are not occurring in OKC:

1. The Sandridge situation is unclear, and that's a lot of market space. On top of that, they will finish another building soon enough that will be almost entirely office space, so more recent and relevant data is about to come online for lenders to make these decisions…it's better to wait in these circumstances.

2. The state of national economy is still unclear, no matter what either side of the aisle is saying about it. Again, it's a lot easier to loan out $50M for a run of the mill mixed-use residential facility than it is $250M for a tower that is supposed to house businesses that are going to operate in an economy that is still viewed skeptically.

3. OKC has not had much (if any) in the way of large-scale ($100M+) development over the last, what, 2 to 3 decades? I say again, no amount of demand on paper makes it easy for a bank (particularly local ones) to invest a massive sum of their capital into one single project, especially if they are going to be the pioneer investor in a particular market. Devon is the only project I can think of, and it simply doesn't factor into the mindset of a lender. That also means that there are no large-scale developers in this city with a track-record. Most certainly a guy like Rainey Williams or even Preftakes do not have the track-record to get investment from other source, and neither are likely sitting on $250M to just plop into a development. Gary Brooks is about the only person that I think could pull it off at this point (he's the only one I can think of with over $100M in development downtown)

…OKC just needs a bit more time, and if people would step back and realize that in reality the difference between $10,000,000 and $100,000,000 is substantially more than 10x, they'd have more reasonable expectations of major downtown development.

It would be nice, however, if Preftakes would at least get the ball rolling on the two high-rise properties on his block. There's no reason for those two buildings to be demolished under any foreseeable circumstances, and the life on that corner would help the rest of the block be palatable.

OKC is seeing growth and needs more class A office space downtown. However, does it need enough to make a 30-40 story tower economically feasible? I definitely think OKC needs more time. It could be one of the huge boomtown stories of the 2020s, as long as the national economy doesn't tank again. People say I am very negative on a lot of things and will admit that I am somewhat of a pessimist, but I am also a realist. I would love to see a 30-40 story tower on the Preftakes block, the Stage Center site, and the also Bank of America site, but I see the rate of growth that is actually happening in OKC right now and come to the conclusion that it just isn't happening, right now at least. Someone with vision could try to build a 40 story tower and I think it would be a success, but it would still be too much of a risk for banks to lend the money it would take. In 15 years it may be a different story. Charlotte built the Bank of America tower in the early 1990s, but didn't see their skyline explode until the 2000s.

[Rover]

I don't want a 50 story castle, where have I said otherwise? That's plutonic panda, and how dare you lump anything he says with me. Similarly hoyasooner is historically one of the more credible posters here. You're just taking on everyone blindly.

Help me to understand how demanding better than the utter crap we see here and there is a "pie in the sky" dream. Otherwise that's 1, not exactly fair, and 2, a typical attack tactic for you as one of the most quarrelsome posters on here.

I would never lump you in with Plupan and some of the others on here. I know you are a professional and schooled in these subjects. My comments were in regard to those who are unrealistic and are unduly critical without having knowledge or experience as a reference. You are not one of those.

I agree with you that crap is not acceptable. I agree that the SC plan is minimally acceptable at BEST. But I disagree that it is obvious that Prefakes did this as merely a land speculation...a disagreement that led you to start insulting. You tend to attack when I or someone disagrees with you. Bullying is not necessary, only a good argument...which you are immensely capable of.

[Spartan]

I would never lump you in with Plupan and some of the others on here. I know you are a professional and schooled in these subjects. My comments were in regard to those who are unrealistic and are unduly critical without having knowledge or experience as a reference. You are not one of those.

I agree with you that crap is not acceptable. I agree that the SC plan is minimally acceptable at BEST. But I disagree that it is obvious that Prefakes did this as merely a land speculation...a disagreement that led you to start insulting. You tend to attack when I or someone disagrees with you. Bullying is not necessary, only a good argument...which you are immensely capable of.

Not to get personal, but we do have this love-hate thing over the last few years. We should grab beers next time I'm in town. You are so reflexively combative when you sense people are being critical, and then so complimentary and nice afterward. Tough act to crack.

On the topic at hand I agree with you that this isn't Preftakes engaging in land speculation in its purest form. Even land speculators would be forced at some point to do something with the land rather than keep paying taxes and minimum upkeep costs year after year with no pressure to do anything. Preftakes has literally sat on this land and deferred attention from whoever is actually financing him because, despite some of the impressive projects Precor Ruffin has pulled off before (particularly back when downtown was NOT a safe sure-fire investment), it is obvious he doesn't have the resources to keep this charades going.

Pete is right on the money here. If Devon, who is clearly putting him up to this, had acquired an entire block (consisting of downtown's best remaining historic fabric to be revitalized) and mothballed it for 6 years (it will be 7-8-9 years before anything is done here at the most optimistic count) there would be a %$#@storm of bad PR. That would be much worse than OG+E tearing down Stage Center, and they're so concerned that they're using an inept shadow "developer" for that deal rather than take it on directly. Preftakes is just a guy, so him taking heat is no big deal. The reality is if not for this nebulous speculative land assembly beeswax, many of these buildings probably would've been rehabbed by other developers who can smell a good deal. There's a simple urban development truth that grand, beautiful, sturdy old buildings make the most successful development projects. This isn't a speculation cost at all, it's an opportunity cost.

So while I don't at all deny what we all know is happening behind closed doors with regards to this block, it doesn't change the reality we've been living with for as long as anyone can remember. Preftakes started his acquisitions before Devon Tower was even announced! Just to put into perspective how long this has been. There used to be a little activity, including a few GREAT downtown traditions like the Lunch Box and Coney Island. I miss Lunch Box but I was even okay with that back then in the name of some vague, fuzzy notion of progress I was excited for. I am just as giddy as anyone about progress and I'll support knocking a few buildings down every now and then. Now this block has nothing, going on several years since Preftakes squeezed out the last diners. I support progress, not nothingness.

The #1 problem in downtown right now is that over half of the 180+ acres are in development limbo, whether it's the CC, hotels for the CC, expansion for the CC, more hotels bc downtown is booming, growing housing cores in DD and MT, all these potential tower sites, C2S sites that OCURA is gobbling up, Bricktown because land speculators never left, and so on. How does the city protect public investments which were sold to us on the promise of igniting private development? The reality is all these exhaustive downtown public improvements have done is actually STYMIE private investment by making it such a good deal that what speculator wouldn't want to get involved. Classic rent-gap economics. This good economy won't last forever. If we want to take advantage of our planning, public investments, and this economy then we need leadership with the balls to bust up this ridiculous land speculation that is cutting in half the development we should be seeing. I am anxious to get as much stuff done while the economy is good. All of these entities holding out, waiting for some bigger signal or price or who knows, are just going to lose out ultimately when the next recession rolls around. It's the American way.

[Plutonic Panda]

So, you are saying that someone should be able to walk in and demand that kind of loan?

It is one thing to say that Tebow sucks and quite another to know what it actually takes or what is involved in being an NFL qb. Anything is easy for those that don't actually have to do it.

Damn bro, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? Literally every single post I've seen you make you're just bitching at other people and trying to argue with people.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't want a 50 story castle, where have I said otherwise? That's plutonic panda, and how dare you lump anything he says with me. Similarly hoyasooner is historically one of the more credible posters here. You're just taking on everyone blindly.

Help me to understand how demanding better than the utter crap we see here and there is a "pie in the sky" dream. Otherwise that's 1, not exactly fair, and 2, a typical attack tactic for you as one of the most quarrelsome posters on here.

50 story castle? That's hilarious.... I want a 50 story high-rise yes. You are getting tons of the low-rise infill you want here, so what's the beef with a few 50 story towers? Do I have the money to build one? No. Do I think OKC is going to get 50 story towers in the near future? No. But what is wrong for wanting them?

I have said time and time again that I want at least a 25 story tower on the Stage Center and for whatever reason, you spin it and claim all I want is 50 story high-rises. Let it go dude. Also, Rainy Williams new tower should be approved as it seems it complies with all zoning laws. It is his deal and if he wants to build it, then fine. Just stop twisting my words to support your obvious hatred for me simply because I disagree with you.

I am sure you are extremely knowledgeable in your field and I respect that and what you do. You have excellent ideas and OKC would be great to have you back and even better if you were involved with city planning; but please don't personally attack me as I don't personally attack you.

[Plutonic Panda]

I would never lump you in with Plupan and some of the others on here. I know you are a professional and schooled in these subjects. My comments were in regard to those who are unrealistic and are unduly critical without having knowledge or experience as a reference. You are not one of those.

I agree with you that crap is not acceptable. I agree that the SC plan is minimally acceptable at BEST. But I disagree that it is obvious that Prefakes did this as merely a land speculation...a disagreement that led you to start insulting. You tend to attack when I or someone disagrees with you. Bullying is not necessary, only a good argument...which you are immensely capable of.

Thank you Rover, I appreciate that you are not lumping Spartan in with my unrealistic, uneducated, and most of all stupid thinking. Appreciate it man!

[Teo9969]

Hey hey hey....There are still tenants in there. My pure speculation is that you will see something happen this summer. I anticipate the 1 n Hudson being empty late May. Also, most of the pictures with the nappers were before the bus station moved. We haven't had any major problems since then. The one from the Lunch Box is Al and occasionally he has a friend stop by to chat but usually it is just him there during the day and he is always sitting in the chair, He sleeps elsewhere. Al doesn't drink or use drugs. He is actually a nice guy and is not panhandling or bothering anyone walking by. We have adopted him and got him some insulated coveralls, a cot and sleeping bag as well as a small sterno heater when it was really cold. Some may have an issue with us doing that and say we are part of the problem but we have also been contacting some different organizations to see about helping him get into some type of housing as he get some disability or social security.

Well there's not many tenants in there…I don't want you all kicked out by any means.

But if he's going to make it residential/hotel he could go ahead and get those deals underway etc.

And I don't personally mind so much about the homeless people living downtown. When I say "life on that corner" I don't mean that I wish the homeless people would flee, on the contrary, I entirely agree with what Spartan said, and I LOVE that you all have actually developed a relationship with Al. I just mean that I wish there were more activity on that block in the buildings that we know should be going anywhere (your current digs, and the motor hotel just north). As it is now 1NH is pretty much empty outside of you all and maybe one or two other businesses, right?

[Pete]

Regarding the homeless, I ran a nonprofit for years with a homeless outreach program and while there are generally plenty of shelters and other resources available, you can't force people to use them. Virtually all homeless are addicts and/or suffer from mental illness. Most actually choose to be on the street rather than a controlled environment and there is nothing a community can do to force them inside, even when it's in their best interest.

Very, very cool that you are looking after this guy, Jeep. It's a complex issue because on one hand you don't want to be an enabler, but on the other there is a very real and present danger to this poor guy in extreme elements.


As far as the development -- or lack thereof -- on this block, I simply don't know what Preftakes is waiting for. He's owned the properties for years and has done nothing but run out existing tenants. He really hasn't even kept the outsides presentable and clean.

As far as I know, there is now ONE tenant left in 1 N Hudson and by the spring that building will be completely empty too, along with everything else on a square city block right in the middle of our central business district; save 420 W. Main (City offices) and Coney Island.

We also know Devon is at least partially behind Preftakes, and their resources enable him to basically spend millions to acquire, then throw out all the tenants and keep the buildings vacant.

With the new downtown elementary school, Centennial Park, New Main Street Garage, Project 180, the Myriad Gardens... The billions of tax payer dollars spent all around this block and everything that is happening now to the west, this is becoming a completely unacceptable situation that needs to be addressed in the very near future.

Preftakes knows the last tenant is leaving in a few months and there is nothing even in design review, which is the first step towards development / re-development. Time to step up and move forward and if he doesn't soon, he should be held accountable.

[Jeepnokc]

Well there's not many tenants in there…I don't want you all kicked out by any means.

But if he's going to make it residential/hotel he could go ahead and get those deals underway etc.

And I don't personally mind so much about the homeless people living downtown. When I say "life on that corner" I don't mean that I wish the homeless people would flee, on the contrary, I entirely agree with what Spartan said, and I LOVE that you all have actually developed a relationship with Al. I just mean that I wish there were more activity on that block in the buildings that we know should be going anywhere (your current digs, and the motor hotel just north). As it is now 1NH is pretty much empty outside of you all and maybe one or two other businesses, right?

The only people left are my office which is a whole floor and there is a one atty office on ten that I believe is month to month. My lease is up in August but will (fingers crossed) be moving in May depending on construction.

[Spartan]

Regarding the homeless, I ran a nonprofit for years with a homeless outreach program and while there are generally plenty of shelters and other resources available, you can't force people to use them. Virtually all homeless are addicts and/or suffer from mental illness. Most actually choose to be on the street rather than a controlled environment and there is nothing a community can do to force them inside, even when it's in their best interest.

Very, very cool that you are looking after this guy, Jeep. It's a complex issue because on one hand you don't want to be an enabler, but on the other there is a very real and present danger to this poor guy in extreme elements.


As far as the development -- or lack thereof -- on this block, I simply don't know what Preftakes is waiting for. He's owned the properties for years and has done nothing but run out existing tenants. He really hasn't even kept the outsides presentable and clean.

As far as I know, there is now ONE tenant left in 1 N Hudson and by the spring that building will be completely empty too, along with everything else on a square city block right in the middle of our central business district; save 420 W. Main (City offices) and Coney Island.

We also know Devon is at least partially behind Preftakes, and their resources enable him to basically spend millions to acquire, then throw out all the tenants and keep the buildings vacant.

With the new downtown elementary school, Centennial Park, New Main Street Garage, Project 180, the Myriad Gardens... The billions of tax payer dollars spent all around this block and everything that is happening now to the west, this is becoming a completely unacceptable situation that needs to be addressed in the very near future.

Preftakes knows the last tenant is leaving in a few months and there is nothing even in design review, which is the first step towards development / re-development. Time to step up and move forward and if he doesn't soon, he should be held accountable.

How? Nobody is held accountable in this city.

[Rover]

How? Nobody is held accountable in this city.

Spartan, which city in the US is doing the best job of forcing the best development in their main urban areas? Who should be our model and what makes them most effective?

[Pete]

I updated the article at the top of the thread to reflect all the holdings on this block: $15.9 million invested by Preftakes -- most of it seven years ago -- and virtually zero income, while he continues to pay property taxes based on value of the sales.

In fact, in addition to the $15.9 million in acquisition costs, he is paying over $985K per year in just property taxes. Plus maintenance on all those properties with no real income.

[soonerguru]

Totally bummed about the closure of the Lunch Box. Miss the corned beef and friendly conversation. The food was good; the atmosphere was better. Strike One against Mr. Preftakes. We have already lost something.

[Urban Pioneer]

WHY did he close it??? Such a loss. And I had finally earned my seat at the board's table.

[Spartan]

Spartan, which city in the US is doing the best job of forcing the best development in their main urban areas? Who should be our model and what makes them most effective?

Look this isn't city vs city, because I don't know. But I'm saying that in OKC there is far too little accountability. Design review is a joke. Ordinances mean nothing. The Brewers make what Preftakes is currently doing look like small potatoes. The powers that be profit on sprawl, vacant lots, and abandoned buildings. Accomplishing a successful urban development is more of a nag than it's worth in OKC. Look at OCURA's stellar record until Cathy O'Connor took it over. The good ole boy club has literally ran this city for a hundred years. Our idea of economic development is corporate incentives for corporations already here. I could go on and on.

OKC is succeeding in spite of itself because the city has a strong spirit and incredible bones left standing downtown.

[amaesquire]

I updated the article at the top of the thread to reflect all the holdings on this block: $15.9 million invested by Preftakes -- most of it seven years ago -- and virtually zero income, while he continues to pay property taxes based on value of the sales.

In fact, in addition to the $15.9 million in acquisition costs, he is paying over $985K per year in just property taxes. Plus maintenance on all those properties with no real income.

So, in essence, spending over $20M to do nothing with these properties over the last seven years? That doesn't sound like he's just speculating. That much investment, to me, points towards some end goal.

[shawnw]

Hmmm... with all that money, he could have (and probably still could) saved Stage Center, single-handedly. He seems to be a pretty smart guy that can make things happen. I wonder why he didn't?

[Urbanized]

Hmmm... with all that money, he could have (and probably still could) saved Stage Center, single-handedly. He seems to be a pretty smart guy that can make things happen. I wonder why he didn't?

Because he's a businessman and pragmatist who is making investments with the end goal of turning profit. Saving Stage Center fits nowhere in that equation. It's not his personal responsibility to go broke saving SC.

If SC were to have a savior, it would have to be a sentimental, architecture-loving billionaire (or near-billionaire) or a very wealthy foundation of some sort. This person or foundation would also need to be willing to buck peers who actively want SC torn down. This type of person exists in many other cities, but unfortunately OKC is fresh out at the moment.

[shawnw]

Thank you. I agree. I was just wanting someone significantly more knowledgeable and more respected than myself to say it.

[kevinpate]

Hmmm... with all that money, he could have (and probably still could) saved Stage Center, single-handedly. He seems to be a pretty smart guy that can make things happen. I wonder why he didn't?

One set of actions can be expected to make a profit. The other would make one a hero in the hearts of tens of citizens.

[Urbanized]

Thank you. I agree. I was just wanting someone significantly more knowledgeable and more respected than myself to say it.

Ha ha it's doubtful that I have either but thanks for the compliment.

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, wouldn't you think all of this would point to him planning on building a very large project in the future?

[Urbanized]

But we demand to know what it is right now!!

[Urbanized]

Pete, I don't like the code that defeats all caps. I use caps very judiciously. When I want to use them, it is because I want people to KNOW that I am shouting...

[Pete]

Well, wouldn't you think all of this would point to him planning on building a very large project in the future?

It's convoluted because I don't believe the is simply a businessman making business decisions.

I think/know that Devon is bankrolling him because they want to see that property developed in a way that is compatible to their adjacent campus, and perhaps for their own expansion.

Devon didn't build their current complex as an investment; they did it to consolidate employees, improve downtown, enhance their public image, help the community, etc.

So, this isn't just profit and loss because if it was he couldn't be just eating a million dollars a year -- for 6 or 7 years -- in taxes with no revenue.