Plaza District

[catch22]

Pete any idea what kind of concept this 4th pub would be?

Where would it go?

[Pete]

I'm told it's a "different type of concept" and will go into a building that is changing hands; there is a signed letter of interest.

Waiting for the sale to close before revealing more, at the wishes of the involved parties.

[PhiAlpha]

I'm pretty sure there's a church IN the strip mall west of The Rise, north of Big Truck. Someone help me out. I'm going off memory. Maybe they moved, but I'm pretty sure they still have signs up.

Yes, the paseo apostolic church is in the strip west of it, and it is the biggest part of everything wrong with that stupid law. However, it looks to be at least 300 feet from the edge of the rise, unless they've expanded it to include the old queens beauty supply building.

[bchris02]

The rest are ABC-2, which essentially means they are RESTAURANTS, which happen to have bars. This is the case with EVERYTHING in Plaza (except Scorecards, which is a 3.2 beer bar). Plaza's zoning doesn't even allow for ABC-3 at all (by choice). As such they (nearly all of the recently-opened "bars" in urban OKC) are completely unaffected by the 300' rule. This whole discussion, in general, is usually a waste of energy and bandwidth.

Doesn't the 300 ft rule also apply to residences in addition to schools and churches? I was fairly certain it did. If so, that is the biggest problem as it will prevent ABC-3 licenses in mixed-use buildings.

[Questor]

Do Tulsa, Norman have different laws than OKC? Because both have vibrant bar districts.

Glad to see OKC getting some bar concentration at the Plaza. Some other districts are pointing this directions also. This has been a weak point for OKC and these districts are making strides... Great to see.

Same in Norman like what Urbanized was describing... Almost all of the bars are actually pubs that sell quite a lot of food. I think the two things Norman has going for it many other places don't are centralized walkable business districts that are essentially setup perfectly for pubs, and a large demographic base to support them.

[Spartan]

Is Urban Wineworks still open?

[AP]

Is Urban Wineworks still open?

I believe so.

[sroberts24]

Yes it is, they were closed for about a week around New Years. Sign on the door said power was out. But back open got a bottle last night

[dankrutka]

Pretty sure there are numerous bars (not clubs) just in the Brady District alone that do not sell food or sell it on a very limited basis. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, but the ones that come to mind are: Valkyrie, Soundpony, Yeti, Bar 46, Caz's (totally separate from the restaurant, right?). I think there are more just in the that one district. I can think of quite a few others in Tulsa too. Why does Tulsa seem to have such a different bar scene? However, I don't think Grandad 's serves food, right?

[soonerguru]

Pretty sure there are numerous bars (not clubs) just in the Brady District alone that do not sell food or sell it on a very limited basis. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, but the ones that come to mind are: Valkyrie, Soundpony, Yeti, Bar 46, Caz's (totally separate from the restaurant, right?). I think there are more just in the that one district. I can think of quite a few others in Tulsa too. Why does Tulsa seem to have such a different bar scene? However, I don't think Grandad 's serves food, right?

You can get a tasty, high-calorie hot dog at Soundpony.

[bchris02]

Pretty sure there are numerous bars (not clubs) just in the Brady District alone that do not sell food or sell it on a very limited basis. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, but the ones that come to mind are: Valkyrie, Soundpony, Yeti, Bar 46, Caz's (totally separate from the restaurant, right?). I think there are more just in the that one district. I can think of quite a few others in Tulsa too. Why does Tulsa seem to have such a different bar scene? However, I don't think Grandad 's serves food, right?

My guess is because of the slightly different culture up there. This isn't really a case of one is better than the other though. Tulsa, as far as I know, doesn't have as many dance clubs, ultra-lounges, or country oriented bars as OKC does. As far as bars like the ones you listed, OKC will likely start to see more of these kind of places within the next few years, and yes there is a difference between them and places that are primarily restaurants that happen to have a bar.

[adaniel]

Pretty sure there are numerous bars (not clubs) just in the Brady District alone that do not sell food or sell it on a very limited basis. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, but the ones that come to mind are: Valkyrie, Soundpony, Yeti, Bar 46, Caz's (totally separate from the restaurant, right?). I think there are more just in the that one district. I can think of quite a few others in Tulsa too. Why does Tulsa seem to have such a different bar scene? However, I don't think Grandad 's serves food, right?

What does it matter if a bar serves food or not? A person can get just as drunk just as easy at a booze only bar as a bar with no food. No offense to you, but you have pushed this narrative that alcohol only establishments are somehow superior with nothing to back this up except that Tulsa is having some success with that model. Good for them...but have you thought that maybe consumers in different markets act differently? Do people really care that much one way or another?

I can say this. I would like to think I am somewhat typical of young professionals in this city. I much prefer going to a place that serves both food and drink because a) going to a drink only bar guarantees I will be smelling like an ashtray before the night is over, b) since we have such poor public transit and taxis in this city, I like to pace my drinking by being able to order food, and c) lots of restaurants around town can pad their profit margin with booze sales so they've stepped up their cocktail and drink offerings, many times exceeding that of a comparable bar.

Understand that the Blue Dome is a VERY young area. If I am correct its only really been around in its current form since 2011. Most bars aren't expected to make a profit after year 2 or 3, but after that they better start making some cash to stay afloat. They may find it difficult do so by being a drink only establishment with limited hours, so don't be surprised if a few start opening to lunch or dinner crowds. And it won't be the end of the world if that is the case.

[bchris02]

Actually, Bricktown has more establishments, but it doesn't feel like it for one very obvious reason. Tulsa's Brady District is much more walkable and intimate. It covers much less area but it is dense and always looks active at night. Bricktown draws a lot of people but is far less intimate feeling.

We've been round and round about Tulsa vs OKC "bar districts". Bricktown has far more bars than any district in Tulsa but again, I get why there is a perception discrepancy.

This perception shows the importance of placemaking when it comes to developing districts. It wouldn't be difficult at all to retrofit Bricktown to have a more intimate feel. Then again, part of what makes it unique is the fact it was a former warehouse district and has maintained that gritty, warehouse district feel.

[PhiAlpha]

This perception shows the importance of placemaking when it comes to developing districts. It wouldn't be difficult at all to retrofit Bricktown to have a more intimate feel. Then again, part of what makes it unique is the fact it was a former warehouse district and has maintained that gritty, warehouse district feel.

It all starts with the canal and the woefully underutilized canal level and canal side ground level. If Bricktown could beef up that part of the district, it would go a long way toward making it more intimate.

[bchris02]

It all starts with the canal and the woefully underutilized canal level and canal side ground level. If Bricktown could beef up that part of the district, it would go a long way toward making it more intimate.

Isn't there plans to do that? Not on Hogan's turf but upper Bricktown?

[Pete]

Back to discussion the Plaza District, this is the location of the proposed pub:

Blair Upholstery - OKCTalk

[Urbanized]

I couldn't agree more. This is why I feel like Bricktown is as much of an opportunity within its own success. Building after building is being built that degrades the pedestrian environment and is really just vertical sprawl. None of the hotels are going to be vibrant street level centers. I was hoping that when DOKC Inc took over Bricktown that they'd see this opportunity but by essentially hiring an event coordinator instead of a district planner, I'm not optimistic that Bricktown will make necessary adjustments to evolve correctly. When all the land is filled up, it will be really hard to lift up the quality then.

That being said, there are a couple developments that are an improvement. The Steel Yard is my favorite right now.

Off topic. My apologies.

With DOKC at the helm, Bricktown now DOES have a very talented planner in AJ Kirkpatrick. Bricktown now benefits from having a well-oiled multi-faceted DOKC staff involved wherever their respective skill sets call for it. I have two different meetings next week involving separate planning-oriented topics, and AJ will be attending both. Mallory (the new program manager dedicated to the district) is a relationship builder, and Bricktown needed that, too.

Agree it's off-topic. If you'd like to discuss that more, let's move future conversation to the Bricktown thread.

[soonerguru]

I'm told it's a "different type of concept" and will go into a building that is changing hands; there is a signed letter of interest.

Waiting for the sale to close before revealing more, at the wishes of the involved parties.

A pub? A PUB? REALLY?

Saint's is a pub. There's already a pub. You could argue that Mule is a pub. What about an actual restaurant? That would be a benefit to the area.

[Pete]

A pub? A PUB? REALLY?

Saint's is a pub. There's already a pub. You could argue that Mule is a pub. What about an actual restaurant? That would be a benefit to the area.

Should have more details soon. I'm told it will be different from Saints.

[blangtang]

I heard a rumor this building on blackwelder is supposed to become a restaurant.

[Pete]

I heard a rumor this building on blackwelder is supposed to become a restaurant.

Let me see what I can find out.

They did a "what should this property become?" feedback process on Popularise:

https://popularise.com/cities/4/neig...ojects/14/view

[betts]

I said I want them to talk the owners of the Shoe Gypsy into reopening. Their shoes were much better suited to the Plaza crowd than the Nichols Hills crowd. I really miss them.

[OKC plaza]

Regarding the farmhouse, Jeff Struble has plans to renovate the bottom floor for commercial (flex retail/office) and the upper floor into residential. Several restaurants were interested but nothing panned out. Personally, I think it's a better route as a transition from the residential into the commercial area. I don't think that end of the district can handle another restaurant until some parking issues are resolved. There are plans to increase walkability and parkability on Blackwelder between 15th & 16th in the works.

And since I just said the p-word, I'll go ahead and throw out that we are waiting to hear on some funding approval for a parking study similar to Western Avenue study done by OUIQC. I'm anxious to do the study and see the results so we can first learn how to manage existing parking better, maximize underutilized space, and increase lighting, safety and walkability on the residential streets surrounding the district. There are many opportunities that don't require big parking lots, and its my goal is to explore all of them as first priority. I have to keep repeating to myself that parking is a good problem, because it's not a fun one!

[bchris02]

I heard a rumor this building on blackwelder is supposed to become a restaurant.

That would be cool. In Charlotte, historic houses converted to bars/restaurants are a pretty big deal in the Dilworth district. The establishments have quite a bit of charm and character as well. It would be nice to have that take off here.

[warreng88]

Oklahoma City developer purchases two neglected buildings | NewsOK.com