Plaza District

[bchris02]

It will be difficult to have a full-on bar district in OKC simply because of the laws preventing pure bars/clubs from opening within 300 ft of a church, school, or residence. Restaurant/bar with a strong emphasis on drinks is the way it will have to be done.

[OKCisOK4me]

Well, it's a restaurant / bar, with very strong bar activity.

The Mule is very similar.

Huh, I did not know that. Still never been inside since we all tried to go that one night back in October.

[dankrutka]

It will be difficult to have a full-on bar district in OKC simply because of the laws preventing pure bars/clubs from opening within 300 ft of a church, school, or residence. Restaurant/bar with a strong emphasis on drinks is the way it will have to be done.

Do Tulsa, Norman have different laws than OKC? Because both have vibrant bar districts.

Glad to see OKC getting some bar concentration at the Plaza. Some other districts are pointing this directions also. This has been a weak point for OKC and these districts are making strides... Great to see.

[Pete]

23rd looks to be not far behind in creating a bar-hopping district.

They should have critical mass by this summer.

[shawnw]

Don't forget that Urban Wineworks sells food. Not sure about other meals but they definitely serve full brunch on Sundays (my point being there's a full kitchen).

[onthestrip]

Do Tulsa, Norman have different laws than OKC? Because both have vibrant bar districts.

Glad to see OKC getting some bar concentration at the Plaza. Some other districts are pointing this directions also. This has been a weak point for OKC and these districts are making strides... Great to see.

Pretty sure its a state law. At the very least it should change that you cant open within 300ft if its owned by church or school. That prevents some church youth group or something from leasing space next to, say, Big Truck Tacos and throwing a wrench in everything. Kinda like UCO ACM did in Bricktown. Which luckily was ok since they changed a law for them specifically.

[bchris02]

Pretty sure its a state law. At the very least it should change that you cant open within 300ft if its owned by church or school. That prevents some church youth group or something from leasing space next to, say, Big Truck Tacos and throwing a wrench in everything. Kinda like UCO ACM did in Bricktown. Which luckily was ok since they changed a law for them specifically.

Big Truck Tacos would be fine because they are a restaurant/bar. Establishments that serve alcohol without food are the ones affected. Right now, the only place in OKC you find those en masse is Bricktown. All of the neighborhood districts are primarily or exclusively served by restaurant/bars.

[Pete]

It's an absurd law anyway.

What is the problem they are trying to solve? That kids are going to be sneaking in for a cold one on their way home from school? That church-goers will be seduced by the devil's nectar? That people who go to bars are social miscreants that shouldn't mingle with children and the truly righteous??

[bchris02]

It's an absurd law anyway.

What is the problem they are trying to solve? That kids are going to be sneaking in for a cold one on their way home from school? That church-goers will be seduced by the devil's nectar? That people who go to bars are social miscreants that shouldn't mingle with children and the truly righteous??

Like our liquor laws, they are a relic of another time. However, I think those laws would be more difficult to change if put to a vote by the people than the liquor laws at present time. If changed however it could greatly improve nightlife here.

[DammitDan]

Just heard there will be a new pub going into the Plaza District.

My understanding was that all available spots in the Plaza had been leased already. Is this a new construction, or is something going away to make space for a new pub?

[Pete]

My understanding was that all available spots in the Plaza had been leased already. Is this a new construction, or is something going away to make space for a new pub?

A building is being sold and redeveloped.

[onthestrip]

Big Truck Tacos would be fine because they are a restaurant/bar. Establishments that serve alcohol without food are the ones affected. Right now, the only place in OKC you find those en masse is Bricktown. All of the neighborhood districts are primarily or exclusively served by restaurant/bars.

I meant throwing a wrench in things for the bars opening soon across the street in the rise. A church could lease space somewhere and wouldn't that bring into play the 300ft rule? I'm thinking it should have to be a property owned by a church or school

[bchris02]

I meant throwing a wrench in things for the bars opening soon across the street in the rise. A church could lease space somewhere and wouldn't that bring into play the 300ft rule? I'm thinking it should have to be a property owned by a church or school

Do you know if existing bars are grandfathered in were that to happen or would they lose their license?

[Pete]

Existing businesses would not be affected.

[dankrutka]

Isn't there already some church group leasing space across the street from Big Truck and near the Rise?

[Pete]

There is certainly a church that leases space in the Plaza District as well.

[bchris02]

There is certainly a church that leases space in the Plaza District as well.

So far everything in the Plaza district is restaurant/bar. If there is a church across from the Rise I don't know how the planned 80s bar is going to happen.

[PhiAlpha]

So far everything in the Plaza district is restaurant/bar. If there is a church across from the Rise I don't know how the planned 80s bar is going to happen.

There isn't a church within 300 feet of the rise in any direction. Not even a strip mall church, the biggest reason that law is so stupid.

[dankrutka]

There isn't a church within 300 feet of the rise in any direction. Not even a strip mall church, the biggest reason that law is so stupid.

I'm pretty sure there's a church IN the strip mall west of The Rise, north of Big Truck. Someone help me out. I'm going off memory. Maybe they moved, but I'm pretty sure they still have signs up.

[PennyQuilts]

There is some sort of church thing in the building just west of the Lyric. The parish or something like that.

[PWitty]

It will be difficult to have a full-on bar district in OKC simply because of the laws preventing pure bars/clubs from opening within 300 ft of a church, school, or residence. Restaurant/bar with a strong emphasis on drinks is the way it will have to be done.

I disagree with this and I have no idea why it gets brought up so much. How many bars has anyone been to in their lifetime that aren't open at all during the day serving food?? The only ones I can think of are dedicated night clubs with huge dance floors. Everything else was open at least part of the day and served food. On Mass St. in Lawrence (our biggest bar district), just about every single "bar" was open during the day or at least past 3 or 4 o'clock.

I was in NYC this last week, and while I am in no way trying to act like I am an expert on NYC nightlife (it was my first time there), it seemed like just about every bar or lounge (seemed to be the big thing there) in the areas we walked through were open during the day. Our hotel was in Chelsea so we spent some time at night making our way through the Flatiron, SoHo, Chelsea, and Meatpacking districts in Midtown and Lower Manhattan, and that scenario applies to just about all of them. I don't hear anyone complaining about NYC"s nightlife in those areas because their bars serve food, so I don't see why some are so insistent on acting like OKC can never have a true bar district because of it.

[Urbanized]

The rule only applies to ABC-3 bars, which do not derive the loosely-enforced 50% gross revenue from food. To my memory, the ONLY licenses like this that have been issued in any of the districts we routinely discuss here are Grandad's and Captain Norm's Dockside Bar. I'm sure there have been one or two others, but very few. In retrospect Skinny Slim's should have been ABC-3, and hope that doesn't cause them problems down the road.

The rest are ABC-2, which essentially means they are RESTAURANTS, which happen to have bars. This is the case with EVERYTHING in Plaza (except Scorecards, which is a 3.2 beer bar). Plaza's zoning doesn't even allow for ABC-3 at all (by choice). As such they (nearly all of the recently-opened "bars" in urban OKC) are completely unaffected by the 300' rule. This whole discussion, in general, is usually a waste of energy and bandwidth.

[Pete]

^

Right, almost every single bar serves food and is open for lunch.

However, in Oklahoma I believe the distinction is that if more than half your revenues come from alcohol, there are different rules.

[Urbanized]

^

That's the "loosely enforced" rule I was talking about. It's why so many places like Saints exist. Walk in there and tell me that place is a restaurant, and not a bar instead.

[Pete]

McNellie's is another example.