Ed Shadid Launches Formal Attack on MAPS 3 Conv Center in tandem with Mayoral Bid

[Urban Pioneer]

perhaps you weren't around then. He most certainly vocally backed the bizarre zeal to raze the last reaming Gold Dome for a cider block CVS, and had a bit of a tt at council saying " we'd be stuck with this thing" referring to the historic walnut Creek Bridge. learned their lesson and razed the historic SFS before anyone could get organized. tragic when the chamber boys get control of our heritage. rem the mid-century space age hip monorail.

What a rant...

[Fantastic]

Bwhahahahaha! Do you seriously not know who Steve is?

Let me give you a hint. Or maybe a couple more.

No, David, I don't think he does. This Edgar fella has simply proven time and time again that he as ABSOLUTLY NO FREAKING IDEA what he's talking about. And I for one am laughing uncontrollably with each of his comments... By all means Edgar, continue posting, I'm enjoying the hell out of it

[OKVision4U]

I'm just saying we need to have a specific plan before spending $250 million (at least) on something that won't work without the hotel.

It's not just the money... It's about having a possible white elephant taking the entire area between the Myriad Gardens and two other massive tax-fueled developments: the boulevard and Central Park.


It just seems capricious to go forward in this manner... Just hoping things will work out even though the consultants have told us that it won't.

Pete, the consultants are stating that it will be "more successful" w/ an adjacent convention hotel. They are not saying it will "not be successful with out it". And don't get too exicted about a consultant, any paid consultant can give you 20 different opinions on the same subject. So what?

Let's not monkey with the success of MAPS 3 or 4 / 5 .. The people voted and approved this Convention Center. Period! Getting a few votes on a petition ( during an election ) is easy...that Elephants can fly. The US vs. Them crowd. Let's not put ANY politics into our MAPS projects ( once voted by the PEOPLE ). This is the chicken that lays the golden egg....ok? Move on people.

[Edgar]

Bwhahahahaha! Do you seriously not know who Steve is?

Let me give you a hint. Or maybe a couple more.

Seems some people were sharing Shadid's pipe back then. Kirk Humphreys most definately a very vocal proponent of razing both the last remianig Gold Dome and the historic Walnut Ave. Bridge. can't remember what he had against the bridge, of course he wanted to replace the midcentury hip Gold dome with a soul crushing anywhere America cinder block CVS.

[Steve]

Seems some people were sharing Shadid's pipe back then. Kirk Humphreys most definately a very vocal proponent of razing both the last remianig Gold Dome and the historic Walnut Ave. Bridge. can't remember what he had against the bridge, of course he wanted to replace the midcentury hip Gold dome with a soul crushing anywhere America cinder block CVS.

I was there. I covered all this.

Kirk Humphreys never opposed saving the Gold Dome and helped lead the effort to secure federal funding to remove asbestos when Irene Lam bought the building.

And the following is a story on how Humphreys supported keeping the bridge:

Mayor backs Walnut bridge Commission judge rejects city application

By Jack Money
Staff Writer
Friday, July 27, 2001
Edition: CITY, Section: NEWS, Page 1-A
Linked Objects: (Click image for details)
Oklahoma City Mayor Kirk Humphreys said Thursday he favors keeping Walnut Avenue's bridge over rail tracks and planned parking on Bricktown's north edge.

On Thursday, the Oklahoma Corporation Commission's administrative law judge rejected the city's application to replace the bridge with an intersection of the road and tracks, something Humphreys said he'd expected.

"You can't get past the fact that if you have a steep hill there, you have the potential of someone hitting a train when it is icy or slick," he said.

Charles Dudley, an administrative law judge with the Corporation Commission, issued his ruling based on evidence given by city representatives and people who wanted to either see the old bridge saved or replaced with a new bridge.

In the ruling, Dudley steered clear of any arguments about whether the bridge was historic and whether it could be restored or replaced. He focused only on safety issues.

Douglas relied on a rail-safety policy developed in 1998 by a state rail safety commission in his decision.

The commission was formed at the request of Okla- homa's Legislature after the Federal Railroad Administration asked that at least one-quarter of the nation's rail and road intersections be eliminated because of safety concerns.

"All at-grade crossings have an element of hazard," Dudley wrote in his findings.

While he added that warning lights and gates could help, he said the area's steep terrain, sight distances limited by required retaining walls, and congestion also needed to be considered.

Removal of the bridge "would create an extra hazardous crossing which would be a likely candidate for closure," he wrote.

City officials other than Humphreys reacted cautiously to Thursday's ruling. The staff has been divided for years about whether to keep a bridge.

City engineers wanted to do away with the more expensive bridge in favor of a road, which would require less maintenance.

Many merchants and Bricktown property owners wanted to eliminate the bridge because it would have improved access to planned northside Bricktown parking and to Main Street - an area largely isolated from the Sheridan Avenue corridor.

Plans are nearly complete for about 885 spaces on a strip of land bordered by Main and the railroad track that the bridge passes over now.

Officials said they are working to get the parking installed by early next year.

Historians, preservationists and some residents say the Walnut Avenue bridge provides the community with a sense of place, of time and an identity.

Others argue the bridge's gentle arch provides a picturesque view.

Cost estimates range from about $2.5 million to replace the bridge with a road to about $3.4 million to build a replacement bridge.

Council members decided in March to have the Corporation Commission decide the matter as elections heated up for four council seats. One of those seats represents the Bricktown area, where the bridge has long been a fixture.

Councilwoman Willa Johnson faced election challenges from several people - all of whom said the bridge needed to be kept. Johnson said Thursday she will closely review the order and listen to the city staff's interpretation before making up her mind.

"I am not married or divorced to the idea of keeping a bridge there," Johnson said. "If it needs to be replaced, it needs to be replaced.

"But I can also tell you that I sure could find a use for that $900,000 in other areas of my ward," she said.

City Manager Jim Couch said council members will be asked Tuesday if they would like to appeal the law judge's decision to the three elected members of the Corporation Commission.

The city only has 10 days to notify the Corporation Commission of its request.

If the council appeals and the commission upholds the law judge's decision, city officials would have another 30 days to file a new application with the commission or take the matter to Oklahoma's Supreme Court.

[Steve]

Edgar, my name is Steve Lackmeyer. I was covering many of these moments in our history. I "was around then." You clearly were not. If you were, you would know it is the Walnut Avenue Bridge, not the "Walnut Creek Bridge," that was at issue. And you would also know that it was a Walgreens, not a CVS, that was proposed for the site of the Gold Dome.
I carry water for no one in this campaign. Those who oppose you in this thread - Urban Pioneer and Soonerguru - are among those who have faced tough questions from me.
Edgar, who are you? And how are you qualified or knowledgeable on what has or hasn't happened? You are an anonymous poster whose only response to my challenging false information is to suggest I did drugs. Is there anyone on this site who can say they have any respect for what Edgar has to say after such a response? I'll be eager to see who is in your court Edgar.

[Edgar]

Credit where credit is due:

Led by a $14.5 million capital grant from the Donald W. Reynolds Foundation and by an extraordinary outpouring of support from more the 500 foundations, corporations, and individual donors, the $40 million goal was reached to build and endow the new museum, entirely with private funds.

Museum History :: OKCMOA

$40 million, that's just a bit more than the operating losses in Boston last year, and it bought the town a beautiful new museum everyone can enjoy, multiple times with new exhibits. A new cc will be similar to the Thunder pracitce facility, you paid for it but can't see it, unless of course you fork over what will no doubt be a heavy rental fee given who's running the show downtown now. probably went to a hundred events over the years at the Myriad, never once a convention. Ed probably wouldn't have a problem building a new cc for our barons if it were self-sustaining, but all the evidence points to a major budget item every year.

[Edgar]

Edgar, my name is Steve Lackmeyer. I was covering many of these moments in our history. I "was around then." You clearly were not. If you were, you would know it is the Walnut Avenue Bridge, not the "Walnut Creek Bridge," that was at issue. And you would also know that it was a Walgreens, not a CVS, that was proposed for the site of the CVS.
I carry water for no one in this campaign. Those who oppose you in this thread - Urban Pioneer and Soonerguru - are among those who have faced tough questions from me.
Edgar, who are you? And how are you qualified or knowledgeable on what has or hasn't happened?

Walgreens, my mistake. It was to be across the street from a CVS as per their cloning marketing strategy, and Kirk Humphreys most definately a proponent of the walgreens. Don't you recall the groaner of a joke he tried to make at the Gazette event attended by the chief save the dome preservationist. Really now Steve, is it so hard to believe a bottom line chamber guy like Humphreys would support walgreens bid. Apparently I have a better memory than others. Check the council transcripts Steve. All due respect to your reporting sir, he most definately made the impassioned statement, we need to do this now or we're going to be stuck with this thing, something similar in reference to the historic walnut Ave Bridge.

[Bellaboo]

$40 million, that's just a bit more than the operating losses in Boston last year, and it bought the town a beautiful new museum everyone can enjoy, multiple times with new exhibits. A new cc will be similar to the Thunder pracitce facility, you paid for it but can't see it, unless of course you fork over what will no doubt be a heavy rental fee given who's running the show downtown now. probably went to a hundred events over the years at the Myriad, never once a convention. Ed probably wouldn't have a problem building a new cc for our barons if it were self-sustaining, but all the evidence points to a major budget item every year.

Edgar,

I'm not going to say 'go away', because this is an open forum for everyone. But Edgar, as you have for the last few years, your spewing nonsense is a hoot to those of us that regularly post here and understand that you're as full of crap as a Christmas turkey.

Start posting 'true facts' Edgar, that way you'd be a lot more credible.

[Steve]

Walgreens, my mistake. It was to be across the street from a CVS as per their cloning marketing strategy, and Kirk Humphreys most definately a proponent of the walgreens. Don't you recall the groaner of a joke he tried to make at the Gazette event attended by the chief save the dome preservationist. Really now Steve, is it so hard to believe a bottom line chamber guy like Humphreys would support walgreens bid. Apparently I have a better memory than others. Check the council transcripts Steve. All due respect to your reporting sir, he most definately made the impassioned statement, we need to do this now or we're going to be stuck with this thing, something similar in reference to the historic walnut Ave Bridge.

You just ignore proof when it's put in front of you, don't you? I have no knowledge of the so-called "Gazette event" you cite, which, in context of what you've said to date, may be a total fantasy. There was nothing, by the way, for the council and mayor to do on the Gold Dome. It was a Design Review/District Court matter.

Again, more evidence sir:

Gold Dome supporters win round in design panel

By David Zizzo
Staff Writer
Friday, February 1, 2002
Edition: CITY, Section: NEWS, Page 1-A
Linked Objects: (Click image for details)
Supporters of Oklahoma City's Gold Dome bank won a unanimous victory Thursday evening in their battle to save what preservationists say is a landmark piece of history and architecture.

The Urban Design Commission voted 5-0 to turn down a request by owners of the building, Bank One, to demolish the shiny gold-domed bank on NW 23. Bank One officials want to replace the dome with a new branch bank and with a Walgreens store.

"Great! It just shows what people can do when they get together," said Lisa Chronister, an architect and a leader of a citizens movement to save the bank.

Bill Scheihing, president of Bank One, said he was "not surprised. Either way the vote went, my hope is that we continue to look for alternative solutions."

Various alternatives were suggested by some of the 50 or so dome supporters who filled city council chambers to oppose the demolition request. One alternative, however, is Bank One can appeal the Urban Design Commission ruling to the city's board of adjustment.

Any rulings of that board could be appealed to district court.

Scheihing said Bank One has not decided whether to appeal.

Besides the demolition proposal, the commission also denied permission for a bank branch or a Walgreens to be built at the site.

The commission was charged with deciding whether it is economically feasible to save the dome, which has been declared eligible for the National Register of Historic Places.

Commission member Richard Dowell questioned Bank One officials when they argued the cost of refurbishing the structure would make the project not feasible.

Dowell said by the bank's own figures, it would cost about $2.2. million to put the bank in "relatively pristine" condition for reuse, while it would cost more than $3 million to demolish it and build new structures for the bank branch and the drugstore.

"I am frankly extremely puzzled by the applicant's figures," he said.

A Walgreens spokeswoman said the company had decided against using any space inside the old dome for its new store, although a commissioner and several supporters noted that Walgreens has opened such stores inside historic structures in other cities.

Dennis Box, attorney for Bank One, told the commission that although they have the responsibility to protect significant buildings, "that has to be balanced by an individual's rights."

Paul Thompson, one of several residents who spoke in favor of saving the dome, said Bank One's argument that the old dome was inefficient should be rejected.

If efficiency were the ruling measure of architecture, he asked, "why did the state Capitol get a dome?"

[Steve]

Edgar, who are you?
And if you're not willing to identify yourself, when there is so much factual evidence put forth to show you are posting false statements, why should anyone believe you?

[Edgar]

You just ignore proof when it's put in front of you, don't you? I have no knowledge of the so-called "Gazette event" you cite, which, in context of what you've said to date, may be a total fantasy. There was nothing, by the way, for the council and mayor to do on the Gold Dome. It was a Design Review/District Court matter.

Again, more evidence sir:

Gold Dome supporters win round in design panel

By David Zizzo
Staff Writer
Friday, February 1, 2002
Edition: CITY, Section: NEWS, Page 1-A
Linked Objects: (Click image for details)
Supporters of Oklahoma City's Gold Dome bank won a unanimous victory Thursday evening in their battle to save what preservationists say is a landmark piece of history and architecture.

The Urban Design Commission voted 5-0 to turn down a request by owners of the building, Bank One, to demolish the shiny gold-domed bank on NW 23. Bank One officials want to replace the dome with a new branch bank and with a Walgreens store.

"Great! It just shows what people can do when they get together," said Lisa Chronister, an architect and a leader of a citizens movement to save the bank.

Bill Scheihing, president of Bank One, said he was "not surprised. Either way the vote went, my hope is that we continue to look for alternative solutions."

Various alternatives were suggested by some of the 50 or so dome supporters who filled city council chambers to oppose the demolition request. One alternative, however, is Bank One can appeal the Urban Design Commission ruling to the city's board of adjustment.

Any rulings of that board could be appealed to district court.

Scheihing said Bank One has not decided whether to appeal.

Besides the demolition proposal, the commission also denied permission for a bank branch or a Walgreens to be built at the site.

The commission was charged with deciding whether it is economically feasible to save the dome, which has been declared eligible for the National Register of Historic Places.

Commission member Richard Dowell questioned Bank One officials when they argued the cost of refurbishing the structure would make the project not feasible.

Dowell said by the bank's own figures, it would cost about $2.2. million to put the bank in "relatively pristine" condition for reuse, while it would cost more than $3 million to demolish it and build new structures for the bank branch and the drugstore.

"I am frankly extremely puzzled by the applicant's figures," he said.

A Walgreens spokeswoman said the company had decided against using any space inside the old dome for its new store, although a commissioner and several supporters noted that Walgreens has opened such stores inside historic structures in other cities.

Dennis Box, attorney for Bank One, told the commission that although they have the responsibility to protect significant buildings, "that has to be balanced by an individual's rights."

Paul Thompson, one of several residents who spoke in favor of saving the dome, said Bank One's argument that the old dome was inefficient should be rejected.

If efficiency were the ruling measure of architecture, he asked, "why did the state Capitol get a dome?"

No fantasy, my memory serves quite well. As I said, Humphreys a vocal proponent of a walgreens to replace the Gold dome. Really not hard to believe coming from a chamber guy is it Steve? You must not read the gazette. branch out and comsume other media.

[betts]

or just perhaps he's more informed now and doesn't want the city to make a huge mistake that will hamstring the town finacially for ever.

Actually, the one thing Ed wants that would hamstring the city financially forever is a new bus system. Want to know the annual estimated O&M for a system as outlined in the Fixed Guideways? $60 million per annum. That makes a hotel look cheap. But he's not going to get that new bus system regardless, unless the knowledge and common sense fairy finally smacks him on the head with her wand. He'll have to ask the taxpayers for money for anything he wants. How will they react when he can't keep his word. He's lied about a lot more than MAPS.

[Steve]

Edgar, are you Steve Hunt?

[David]

Walgreens, my mistake. It was to be across the street from a CVS as per their cloning marketing strategy, and Kirk Humphreys most definately a proponent of the walgreens. Don't you recall the groaner of a joke he tried to make at the Gazette event attended by the chief save the dome preservationist. Really now Steve, is it so hard to believe a bottom line chamber guy like Humphreys would support walgreens bid. Apparently I have a better memory than others. Check the council transcripts Steve. All due respect to your reporting sir, he most definately made the impassioned statement, we need to do this now or we're going to be stuck with this thing, something similar in reference to the historic walnut Ave Bridge.

Sorry, but that is not how proving an argument works. Unless your next post in this thread contains the council transcripts you are referencing, you will remain the laughingstock the majority of the board already views you to be.

[Bellaboo]

Edgar, are you Steve Hunt?

He always talks about Steve Hunt without using Steve Hunts name.........I wonder now....

[Edgar]

Actually, the one thing Ed wants that would hamstring the city financially forever is a new bus system. Want to know the annual estimated O&M for a system as outlined in the Fixed Guideways? $60 million per annum. That makes a hotel look cheap. But he's not going to get that new bus system regardless, unless the knowledge and common sense fairy finally smacks him on the head with her wand. He'll have to ask the taxpayers for money for anything he wants. How will they react when he can't keep his word. He's lied about a lot more than MAPS.

public trasnport a core function of city government, a shiny new cc on the other hand. Tulsa manages, are they more big league?

[Edgar]

Edgar, are you Steve Hunt?

no but I do occasionally dine at taco bell. Cornett barely beat the guy. Good news for Shadid?

[Edgar]

Sorry, but that is not how proving an argument works. Unless your next post in this thread contains the council transcripts you are referencing, you will remain the laughingstock the majority of the board already views you to be.

yeah I'm making it all up because I have it in for Kirk Humphreys

[David]

yeah I'm making it all up because I have it in for Kirk Humphreys

Since you won't give any actual proof, making it up is the only thing we can assume that you are doing.

[Steve]

no but I do occasionally dine at taco bell. Cornett barely beat the guy. Good news for Shadid?

I'm going to still assume you are still Steve Hunt unless you say who you are. Your approach to online discussions, politics, etc., is too similar to Hunt's to believe otherwise. For what it's worth, this isn't necessarily an insult. Hunt is definitely not stupid. Anyway, say who you are, or I will assume you are the latest incarnation of Genghis Duck, Au Reviour Giraffe, and other online names.

[soonerguru]

I'm confused. What does Mayor Humphries have to do with anything germane to this discussion? Mayor Humphries is not running for office, Cornett is, and in my opinion, Cornett is a far better mayor (no disrespect to Mr. Humphries). Also, it is fantasy to suggest the mayor of OKC gets his marching orders from the Chamber. Anyone who suggests this is not familiar with either how the mayor makes decisions, whom he consults, or how the Chamber operates.

And what is the alternative? Let's assume for a minute that the Chamber of Commerce of a large American city and a sitting mayor were constantly at war with each other. Would that be a good way to run a city? Is it not a good idea for the mayor of a large American city to consult with the major employers in his city when making key decisions?

[Steve]

It doesn't, other than Edgar (Steve Hunt?) put out blatantly false information that I couldn't stay quiet on.

[catch22]

Sooner guru, don't let an informed opinion ruin this conversation. We can't have logic here.

[Edgar]

It doesn't, other than Edgar (Steve Hunt?) put out blatantly false information that I couldn't stay quiet on.

I'm Edgar. Never met Hunt. Heard him call into Traber's show back when Jim was making an arse of himself over Collison's tweet about the weather in Seattle in the summertime. Traber hung up on him before he could speak of course.
Not making up what I said about KH. Have nothing against the guy. Sent him a letter once when first heard rumblings about razing the SFS, and he had the decency to respond in his own hand. For what it's worth, the deed didn't happen on his watch. Sorry, but you're the mistaken one when it comes to KH's opinion on razing the Gold dome for a Walgreens, and preserving the Walnut Ave Bridge. Perhaps you were sharing Shadid's pipe back then.